Anglicans discussion

Hi everyone,
Here is a thread where the group can just converse about whatever is on our minds, that we are itching to talk about!

Well it's mid June. Things are calming down in my household. Anybody have any books they would like to read as a group? We can even have a book discussion leader now. Goodreads has that option, but we can do it without as leader as well.

This board seems to have simmered down a bit...I'd like to try to sink my teeth into St. John of the Cross. Not exactly Anglican...

Let's see if anyone else wants to read this. I am game for it. I know it is a classic. I think reading anything that relates to faith is pertinent to Anglicanism.

I was looking at how Booklady does the Benidict bookclub book discussions, and thought it was good how they had a new thread for each chapter. That is one way that if someone (me) is a slow reader, they don't bump into a lot of spoilers and see the plot unfold before they have got to those parts.

Helloo-oo-oo is anybody out there?

Hi Everyone in the group! Wow summer is coming to an end. I do still want to keep things going in the group. Summer is a time when people vacation, but now that fall is approaching we can probably focus better and start some sugestions going for a good group read.

So click on "All" in the discussion topics and find that thread I started for Summer 09 reading and start popping out some ideas. Guess I'll rename the thread, LOL!

Hi Everyone, if anyone wants to be added as another moderator to the group, let me know. This way you can have fun and explore a variety of ways to post things.

It's fun seeing what's coming in on the October poll. We could chose a Lewis book for November and an Austen book after, but if Jane Austen takes a turn for the lead , we may do an Austen novel first.

Who's read, Called Out Of Darkness:A Spiritual Confession, by Anne Rice? I just finished it today. Wow! What an interesting story. I love her powers of description. I love the images she depicts of the church she grew up in with the smells, bells and statues. I was that kind of child and remembered things as she did. Sometimes I can still feel like a child in the church pew.

Okay, I'll bite. I just found this group, and I read Called out of Darkness a while back. Loved it. While I grew up fairly low church, and therefore my memories are different, I also related to the way her exposure to God in childhood shaped her faith much later as an adult.

Hi Lacey,

I grew up Roman Catholic at the time of the transition between Vatican I & II. So I remember the smells and bells of the Roman Catholic Church. As a child I loved church. I felt close to God there and I wanted to be there. Yet as I grew older, I felt that it got harder to find God in hip folk mass. I was not finding the answer in Bob Dylan's "Blowing in the Wind." Yes, we actually sang that song in worship! There were good changes in Vatican II, but there were compromises in some of the parishes with the use of secular music in worship. There is no doubt through that that early exposure to God, it touched in me a desire for more, a desire to go deeper with the Lord. I strayed during my early teen years and got into the transcendental meditation and the eastern religions. Then when I was 16, God drew me back through Jesus. My story is in the introduction discussion.

The church I attend now is an Anglican Church that worships in the Anglo Catholic way, with incense, and the chanting of the psalms. Yet, we are a very evangelical congregation. We talk of "knowing Jesus," and have used Timothy Keller's materials in our adult Sunday school.

Isn't it so great that Ann Rice went from an atheist to a Christian? I hope many are lead to Christ through reading her journey.

Thanks for "biting." It was fun to find someone who read the book!

Blessings,
Karen

I can imagine what you mean about Vatican II. In the Episcopal church, we also went through our changes in worship style, and I was just old enough to miss the 1928 prayer book. When I hear the old liturgy, I am always overwhelmed by how powerful it is, in part because its content is just more Biblical and substantial, but in part because its sounds and rhythms got into my hard-wiring through that early exposure.

This forum looks like just my cup of tea. I only wish it were a bit more active. I haven't spent much time on Goodreads, but I'm always looking for good tips on books to read, and it's hard to find people whose taste and perspectives are similar to mine. Anglicans in general tend to be more liberal; orthodox Anglicans tend to be more interested in current controversies than in reflection and spirituality, and evangelicals are just too evangelical while Catholics are just too Catholic .

Thanks for the nice introduction to your experiences. I'll check out your story in the introduction discussion.

Lacey,

I think our group could get more active. We have had some really great discussions and book talk in the past. Skylar from our group has young children, but has been active in past discussions. James is a newly wed, so he has been out of the loop, since the wedding. Greg and I are in touch through church, and he loves book talk.

Everyone:
So folks we have someone interested in book talk. Lets share about what we are reading now and just see where that takes us.

I just finished Eat, Pray, Love and it got me to reflecting about the difference between eastern religious views of suffering and Christianity's view of suffering and how thos different viewpoints might affect how people act in the world (in terms of charity, justice, etc.).

Did the author favor one of the views: Christianity- western, or Eastern?

She practices yoga. Her view just got me thinking how it contrasts with the Christian view.

That "Eat Pray, Love" seems pretty popular. I think I will see if my library has it. It sounds like a view into the popular culture, which is good for Christians to see the perspectives out there.

I changed our group photo to one of my home church. If Fr. Bill, the founder of this group ever returns, I'll have him put up the old photo. So far he has not been on goodreads for two years.

It is kind of cool that we can post photos. I posted a few church photos and will post a photo of my favorite reading spot. It would be fun if others posted some photos. Maybe a photo of their church, or their favorite reading spot?

I just saw this book at Borders and decided that I was too cheap to buy it, so I ordered it from the library.
Son Of Hamas
Has anyone else read or heard about it? It sounds really good. I read on the back cover that Yousef converted to Christianity. I'd love to have company reading it, anyone? well if any in the group do read it. Post some thoughts or your review in the group.

So folks, what are you reading that you are enjoying? Or what are you itching to read?

Hey everyone. Sorry I haven't really been active in this group. School has been crazy busy, but I certainly want to get more involved. It's always nice to have fellowship with fellow Anglicans.

Anyway, in addition to the tons of philosophy books I'm reading for school, I've been (slowly) working my way through N.T. Wright's latest book After You Believe. So far, so good, and I'm already going to stamp this one with my recommendation.

Hi Kevin! Great to hear from you. I totally understand your being busy with school. Our family has had many seminarians and grad students as friends. Being a student is INTENSE!!It is so good to have fellowship with fellow Anglicans. I hope you find encouragement in this group. The Anglican liturgy is so beautiful. The N.T. Wright book sounds good. Please add any books that you think would be good group reads to our book shelves. Also any time you want to talk about your faith or a Christian book, just come right to this group. Pull up a comfy chair with coffee, tea, or a glass of port and talk books with us.

Yay Kevin! You were quick; you already added some great books to our group book list, under books "read". Thanks :)

Hi everyone! Who's game out there for some good book discussion??? Some of us are finishing school and such. How about we start posting some ideas about books and topics of interest to us. We could even do two books on the same topic and compare them, or pick a topic and go through books and articles on that topic. Or we could do one book and have fun with a less intense study.

Well, as I mentioned I'm working my way slowly through Wright's latest book, and I'd love to discuss it. Also, as someone who moved out of an evangelical Protestant background into the Anglican church, I'm still wanting to learn more about our tradition and so would love to pick up some books about our church. I'm definitely interested in reading Evangelicals on the Canterbury Trail: Why Evangelicals Are Attracted to the Liturgical Church

I just heard an interview of N.T. Wright about his latest book,After You Believe: Why Christian Character Matters, It was a great interview, and I'd love to read that book and discuss as a group.

Evangelical on the Canterbury Trail sounds interesting as well. Oh Kevin, I'm glad you joined the group :)

Anyone else?

I'd also like to read, Surprised by Hope: Rethinking Heaven the Resurrection and the Mission of the Church, by N.T.Wright, or most any of the books on our group bookshelf listed as "to read."

Yes, you must read that one, even if the group doesn't. I'm of the mind that it's one of the most important books of the century.

Kevin wrote: "Well, as I mentioned I'm working my way slowly through Wright's latest book, and I'd love to discuss it. Also, as someone who moved out of an evangelical Protestant background into the Anglican chu..."

Kevin, welcome to Anglicanism! I grew up in the Methodist Church (before it lost its anchor and its mind, deserting its heritage). I always knew who John Wesley was, of course, but never knew he was an Anglican priest all his life. The Methodist service, in my day there, was essentially that of Morning Prayer and the Eucharist service from the Book of Common Prayer of the Church of England, though I didn't know what that was until I "discovered" the Episcopal Church in my twenties, by attending a Bach Choir concert in an Episcopal church and perusing the books in the pew rack, one of which was the 1928 BCP. I started attending that church and immediately felt I had found my way home. For me, the key was weekly Eucharist and the wonderful sense of "reformed catholicity" that was "spiritually delicious" and made historical sense. I felt truly connected to the Church, across the centuries, worshiping in this way. As a student of both Philosophy and Psychology, I especially appreciated and reveled in the singing of not just hymns, but all the other parts of the service of the sung mass, since I knew that singing employed both sides of the brain (as opposed to plain speech )thus resonating with St Augustine's statement "He who sings prays twice".

It didn't take long to discover, to my great disappointment, that there was not an homogenous practice of worship within all parishes the Episcopal Church, nor was there a single thread of doctrine, especially in the Diocese of Pittsburgh. There were Calvinists, Arminians, Laditudinarians, Catholics and many who I could not understand why they were there, since what they wanted (and complained loudly that they didn’t have it) was easily found in the Presbyterian Church or the Methodist church I left behind. It was maddening!!! And at times, I wondered if it was worth it. Many Sundays I would come home thinking "up with this I cannot put"! I wondered what the “real” Anglicanism was. Though I was Anglican in my beliefs and worship, I had not yet adopted, or even realized there was such a thing as "The Anglican Ethos". It did help to discover that Pittsburgh, along with a couple other dioceses were nor the norm in so far as representing the breadth of Anglicanism (even though they think they are). That was over thirty years ago.

After the Canterbury Trail, comes the path to true Anglicanism which truly is a unique window on the world, an ethos unto itself, and reveals the sense among the seeming disparity of ideas that make up the history and identity of the Anglicanism. The Episcopal Church has, unfortunately, gone off on its own path which can no longer be covered by any stretch of the umbrella of the breadth of Anglicanism. It is possible for a body to belong to the Anglican Communion, but not be Anglican in its ethos.

Along the way, I have found several books very refreshing, supportive, informative, corrective and "on the mark" in their description and explanation of the Way of Anglicanism. I encountered them in a graduate course in "Anglican Studies" that was offered, at one time, as an official seminary training program for the Episcopal Church, offered through the academic auspices of Duquesne University, and supplemented with classes taught by priests from the Episcopal Church, such as Kieth Ackerman (now Bishop Ackerman, instrumental in the formation of the new Anglican Province of the Anglican Church of North America). The books, like the Anglican Studies program and myself, are of an Anglo-Catholic perspective, which, in my studies and experience, I have come to believe is the truest form of Anglicanism, having a tolerance for a breadth of doctrinal positions that all fall within a "reformed catholic" tradition, without the excess and error of Rome or the heresy and iconoclasm of the Continental Reformation, but in tune with the Elizabethan Settlement.

The five books are: WHAT IS ANGLICANISM, by Urban T. Holmes III, Morehouse-Barlow, Inc.; THE STUDY OF ANGLICANISM, by Stephen Sykes, John Booty and Jonathan Knight, Fortress Press, Raised Ed.; ANGLICANISM, by Stephen Neill, Oxford University Press, THE OXFORD MOVEMENT, by C. Brad Faught, Penn State Press; and A THEOLOGICAL INTRODUCTION TO THE THIRTY-NINE AETICLES OF THE CHURCH OF ENGLAND, by E. J. Bicknell, Wipf and Stock. This last book is extremely important because the Thirty-Nine Articles are very "Reformation Protestant" in nature, though purposely ambiguous in places to allow a latitude of interpretation. The book is the classic Anglo-Catholic interpretation of that latitude provided, as a part of the Elizabethan Settlement. You might also want to check out the Cambridge Platonist doctrine of the “Candle of The Lord”. It harmonizes the Calvinists’ position on “total depravity” with the Arminian doctrine of “prevenient grace”, harmonizing the concepts of “predestination”, “salvation by grace alone” and “free will” – very Anglican!.

The Canterbury Trail has been well traveled because so many of the main line protestant churches have lost their minds and re-written themselves into to mega-liberal social club, embarrassed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Consequently the Anglican Communion has become an attractive shelter, in spite of the lunacy going on in The Episcopal Church. This attractiveness is due to the historical connection with the Early Church and the fact that the “Reform Catholic” position is both orthodox and conservative, with respect to the faith. The breadth of Anglicanism embraces both “low church” (more protestant in nature) and ”high church” (more catholic minded) believers, although these labels are “slippery” because there are “low-church” people who like a more simple liturgy but are still more catholic in their faith and “High-church” people who like a sung and more “festive” liturgy but are more protestant in their theology. The point is, many more “protestant” minded folk tend to see the Thirty-Nine Articles as a “definitive” statement of faith, BUT THEY ARE NOT, NEVER WERE, NEVER WILL BE.

Nevertheless, many books are currently being written, by newcomers from the Canterbury Trail to try to legitimatize this view of the Articles as “definitive”. Don’t be misled, the position is intellectually dishonest.

Beware of any book by any author that seeks to raise the status of the Thirty-Nine Articles beyond that of "Historical Document" because Anglicanism has NEVER HAD AN OFFICIAL STATEMENT OF FAITH. In stead, it relies upon the rule "lex orandi lex credendi", meaning "that which is prayed is that which is believed" which is why the BCP is so important and is the soul and "glue" and definition of Anglicanism.

Reformation Protestants may find a home in Anglicanism when their own house burns down or doesn’t fit anymore, but that doesn’t make Anglicanism “Protestant”. It is not.

Some refer to Anglicanism as the “Via Media”, a “middle way" between Catholic and Protestant positions. But this not accurate. The “Via Media” of Anglicanism is its own position, arrived at through the authority of Scripture (as interpreted by the Church), Tradition (of the undivided Church, represented by the first seven Ecumenical Councils) and Reason (the Candle of The Lord, as a function of being created in the Image of God). The Anglican Ethos is “Reform Catholic” and includes element that may be found within Protestantism and Catholicism, but not as a result of compromise, though making harmonization of the two positions possible. That is the Anglican Ethos. I hope you find this ton of words helpful.

Thanks for the tips. I have been in the Anglican church for close to four years now, so I've been exposed to most of that information, but I do want to go deeper into it.

Greg wrote: "Kevin wrote: "Well, as I mentioned I'm working my way slowly through Wright's latest book, and I'd love to discuss it. Also, as someone who moved out of an evangelical Protestant background into th..."

Kevin, I wrote more than I think you have seen. I am very confused on how to use this site, which is why I sort of droped out for a while; But I noticed you wanted to read more about Anglicanism. I listed five books from a seminary course that are excellent and not "confused" on their notion about the nature of Anglicanism, like so many available books on the subject are. I only send this second comment because I see that your "thank you" comment was sent before I posted the final version of my initial comment to you so I don't know if you saw the book titles and final remarks.

Hi Greg,

I wonder if goodreads cuts off our posts if they are over a certain length? try typing shorter sections in the comments, then post and wait a minute and type a new comment. Perhaps that might work? Greg, don't give up on goodreads. It can be so much fun, and in this group we have wonderful kindred spirits. ☺ ( that is my little smiling face. He is such a little guy)

Blessings,
Karen

Hi All,

Thanks Skylar, & Charity for responding so quick to doing some summer reads in the group. I'm going to read "Surprised by Hope..." and then I'd love to read The recent Chesterton that Skylar just finished reading. He is so deep, but I always have questions and things I want to discuss when I read Chesterton. Then after that I want to read the other NT.Wright, "Why Christian Character Matters..." I know Kevin will hopefully jump into any of the N.T. Wright discussions.

You know, there are no rules about how many discussions we can have going at the same time! Lol! If you are reading something and you want to have group members thoughts on it, feel free to start a thread (discussion) on that book.

Happy Friday. Have a blessed weekend :)
-Karen

Karen,
For once I lingered on GoodReads & found some neat photos of churches. Love'um, love'um!
I feel kind of pulled-I have a commitment to read for church small group, my "own" book (Sayers) and then I am going to do the Summer Assignment. I'd like to hear about the other books, read reviews, even if I can't read parallel to it. (BTW, my background parallels yours-RC pre-Vatican 2, etc)

Hi Charity,

Don't worry about being able to join any of our book discussions on schedule. No book discussion in our group is closed, so when your committments lighten up, you can jump into any discussion that interests you, even a very old discussion of the past. Cool that our backgrounds are similar. I love getting to know fellow Anglican or those interested in the Anglican church on goodreads and in this group. It is so fun. It makes the world not seem so big :)


Did you have to wear those cute lace head coverings as a Roman Catholic child? Actually I kind of liked wearing them. I named them "Holy Doilies." LOL!

Hi everyone,

I'm leaving for a family camping holiday on July the 7th, and probably another one shortly after, but I will be reading, checking the group book discussion and posting here and there as I am in town.

Hope you all have lovely holidays and get refreshed both physically and spiritually this summer of 2010. May and June were too busy for me. July is going to be my rest and refreshment month!

Blessings,
Karen

I am anxiously awaiting my local library order of , "The Man Who is Thursday," by G.K. Chesterton to arrive. My library account status said, "in transit," which means it's on the way!!!!
The Man Who Is Thursday

Any body else like Chesterton?

I started reading another book, because the Chesterton that I ordered is taking its time "in transit" to my local library. I have bee grabbing this book, when my husband does not take it with him. It is SO good. I like this man and find my self saying "Amen," aloud as I read this.
The Abolition of Britain

Kevin, I also moved out of evangelical Protestantism to Anglicanism and am interested in books such as the one you suggested, about what is attracting so many evangelicals to the liturgical churches. If anyone has further recommendations, I would appreciate them.

Going back to an early post on this thread, I very much enjoyed Called Out of Darkness. I understand Anne Rice has "broken" with "Christianity," however, and has announced not that she does not believe in and wish to follow Christ, but that she no longer considers herself a "Christian". Whatever that means, exactly. But I found much in her spiritual autobiography to be moving and sincere.

Skylar,

About Ann Rice saying she is not a Christian any more. I don't quite get what she means either. I enjoyed " Called Out of Darkness: A Spiritual Confession"However at the end of the book, I remember her bringing up some things such as women's ordination to the priesthood, and homosexuality not being a sin. I was wondering if her doubts in those areas would trip her up in her faith? She has a gay son. I wonder if that has made being a Catholic difficult for her?

Kevin,

I just added this to our group, "to read list" :Evangelicals on the Canterbury Trail: Why Evangelicals Are Attracted to the Liturgical Church Do you own a copy of it? My local library doesn't have it. I may check out our church library and see if they have it.

Hi David, If you want to see all the discussions in the group, you can go to the Anglican group home page, scroll down till you see the heading, "Discussions," then look to the right and you will see "All," just click on that to see them in their entirety.

I think after Thanksgiving I'll post a discussion titled "Advent 2010," where we can either chose a book to go through together and discuss, or share our own thoughts on our own individual advent books we read.

This group as most goodreads groups are very relaxed and jump in as you can, without feeling obligated. It is all about books, fun and good Christian fellowship.

I've been thinking of what to read this summer.I recieved a reply about books to read in the summer of 2011 from Cindy in our group.
"Paul and I are going to be reading "Told By An Idiot" by Rose Macauley. We read her "The Towers of Trebizond" a while ago. She is a very interesting Anglican, having left the church for most of her adult life, coming back to it in her later years."
I looked this author up and she sounds interesting. I might read, The Towers of Trebizond first, then if I like that, I'm thinking of trying Told by an Idiot
The Towers of Trebizond
Told By An Idiot

here is a bit about the author, Rose Macaulay:
Rose Macaulay
It would be fun to discuss a book as a group. I get so much more out of books this way.

Re: Summer book for 2011

I also heard from Cookie Sue in our group:

"We are reading and listening to C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity (in our S.S. Class).
I tried it a few years ago and couldn't get into it, but, seems to go down better this time.
Anyone interested in this as a group read?"

I've read Mere Christianity and enjoyed it. I would definitely grab my copy off the family book shelf add my thoughts on several of the chapters.

I am reading on Kindle a new book on a Benedictine vow. The book is entitled The Wisdom of Stability by Jonathan Wilson-Hartgrove. A Powerful book for our time of impermanence and transient cultures. Also just a good modern look at the vow.

David, It does sound like a good book. I love things that slow my life down. Sometimes I love to sit and meditate on one verse. Or leave my "to do list," and go out to the back yard to read before sunset.

Enjoy your book!

For others, here's a link to the book
The Wisdom of Stability

Sounds like we are a serious group for the summer! Though it's not written by an Anglican, I enjoyed Gilead by Robinson. She's very skilled, though it's not a page-turner, you can return to it.
I don't have any other Lewis ideas. But notice I keep going back to the reader (Business of Heaven) & "God in the Dock" when it comes to Lewis.

Hi Charity, I really need to read, God in the Dock. I keep hearing friends quoting the book in adult Sunday school.

Summer can't come soon enough for me!

I just finished reading ,"Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley. Someday I'd love to have a book discussion on that book with this Anglican group. I have a friend at my church who is going for his doctorate majoring in ,"The Philosophy of Technology." He has taught in our church adult Sunday school and got many of us asking ourselves about how do we as Christians handle technology? Can we learn to use it wisely? Or at times abstain from some forms of technology to live more simply in the way of Christ? Definitely worth thinking about.
Brave New World

Brave New World (BNW) helped me understand the differences (and potential dangers) between God's (organic) world & our managed world: so perceptive of Huxley. In my 56 years on this earth we've become more managed and more tech-dependent and less "natural" (despite ecological movement in the 60's).
Yes, I abstain. I LOVE gadgetry/technology but it feeds a beast within and wastes my precious time: my new Kindle has me buying more than I read. I put it in a drawer & it is awaiting my trip. My husband travels alone and never uses a smartphone & has for 20 years regularly disconnected his TV when he enters a hotel room. He can masterhis own domain.

Interesting observations on the Aldous Huxley. I found it more compelling for its portrayal of how a world of shallow pleasure and consumption could become a dystopia.

While I definitely see the dangers of technology (I got rid of a smart phone because I felt it disconnected me) I'm not sure about this nature/technology dichotomy.

The reason for this is that, on the one hand, there is a sense in which the organic world is not at all natural. The organic world of today is a fallen world, were death reigns, disasters strike and the strong survive. That world is, God has promised us, going to be remade, but it isn't yet.

On the other hand, technology likewise is natural in a sense. It reflects our creative capacity, part of what we are as creatures made in the image of God.

That said, technology can give us a greater sense of control over our lives, and this in turn can feed into that old sin of pride. Technology can also at times be used without wisdom, as we move forward without ever asking ourselves "should we move forward" and in so doing we loose control.

(p.s. sorry for my disappearance. School got hectic)

Great points Kevin. I find the topic of the ethics we use in dealing with technology so important. Just yesterday I was talking with a relation at a family event and the topic came up. My neice hates texting on cell phones. I told her that we definitely need some manners as to when it is appropriate to text or take a cell phone call. I found myself saying to her, "We need to be Masters or lords over how we use technology and not let it be our lord or master, controlling us." Furthermore, God can guide us how to best use technology or when to fast from it. Good for you Kevin, to get rid of your smart phone if it made you feel disconnected.