Debate discussion

This debate has been given some airing in the UK recently. Assisted suicide is illegal here, but a growing number of terminally ill patients are deciding to take their own life in Switzerland where it is legal. This is still considered 'assisted suicide' in some instances as the patient is considered so debilitated as to require assistance in order to get to Switerland in the first place. This act alone is punishable by up to 10 years in prison. I'm just wondering where you guys stand on this. I have nothing but sympathy for the predicaments of these people, and I support their decisions as they must not take it lightly. That being said, I suspect if this was made legal then their would be instances of abuse. Their would have to be safeguards, such as a signed consent forms from the parties concerned as well as signed declarations as to the futility of the situation by attending doctors.

I am writing an essay about this. I will be posting it shorty.

http://www.goodreads.com/story/show/4...

I'm new to this debate group.

I have a good friend who has recently done a debate in class on this topic. We debated this between us over lunch for a few days.

I think an interesting question of this topic regards who has the authorization to decide if assisted suicide should be carried out. The best choices i have heard of are either the patients medical examiner, a non-affiliated medical examiner, or a psycologist of some sort.

If assisted suicide is made legal, what precautions would be implimented to ensure that the patient is requesting this from an absolutely coherent frame of mind?

Also, i understand that in some cases a patient may not be able to request this procedure. How much power would a doctor or hospital have over this decision. As is comatos patients, would a hospital consider assisted suicide as a form of compassion?

In other cases, where a patient may have a lack of funds or insurance for a certain treatment, would the medical offices prescribe assisted suicide as an option?

I believe that a life is indeed in the livers hands (no pun intended). If a person truely wants to end their life, they should have some resource to do it safely and painlessly. I don't believe that it should be a form of treatment or even any considerable option from a medical practitioners perspective, but again, it should be the patient's decision.

"Also, i understand that in some cases a patient may not be able to request this procedure. How much power would a doctor or hospital have over this decision. As is comatos patients, would a hospital consider assisted suicide as a form of compassion? "

Living Wills is one way.

"In other cases, where a patient may have a lack of funds or insurance for a certain treatment, would the medical offices prescribe assisted suicide as an option? "

Only if the illness is terminal with or without medicine is suicide an option.

I think the fact that is a political issue, or matter of contention, is an evil triumph of George Bush.

Among other things.

Where is the sense of making suicide illegal? Nothing can happen to you.

"Where is the sense of making suicide illegal? Nothing can happen to you."

besides the possibility of having an suicide 'attempt'... i couldn't agree more, let the liver bear his own life.

"besides the possibility of having an suicide 'attempt'... i couldn't agree more, let the liver bear his own life.
"

No one is sent to jail if they fail to kill themselves. They go to rehab or whatever to help find out what caused it.

i think that it is a persons choice to live or die.... and like in severe medical cases... y make it more painful than it already is????

Erik wrote: "I'm new to this debate group.

I have a good friend who has recently done a debate in class on this topic. We debated this between us over lunch for a few days.

I think an interesting questio..."

Welcome to the group!!

If a debate is going to be about this please call it what it is meant to be called. Euthanasia, not assisted suicide.

Okay.

Well, if you are going to be pedantic, the debate should be 'voluntary euthanasia'. Euthanasia is a more general debate.

There is actually a definable difference between assisted suicide and euthanasia.

Yes, assisted suicide is the patient making that decision. Whereas Euthanasia is an authority making that decision for reasons of mercy.

They are very different, but this line gets fuzzy and needs to be heavily considered when the power of suggestion has weight on the decision a patient may need to face. For instance, if a patient is classified as terminal, projected to die within maybe year, a medical counselor will provide the patient options for treatment to bide his/her time. If an assisted suicide is available to the patient as an option, the manner in which the medical counselor suggests or presents this option of treatment may have an effect on the patients decision.

Plus, on the marketing note, if assisted suicide were sanctioned by the state, there would be some capitalistic business out there making the products needed for this treatment. With a product comes advertizing, and with advertizing comes consumer manipulation.

Euthanasia is inhumane, which is why we humans have allowed ourselves to do it to unwanted pesky household animals. That to me is another debate... we usually let humans die from their own natural causes, but we put our old animals down just because we don't want to see them shamble around the house in dementia.

"Plus, on the marketing note, if assisted suicide were sanctioned by the state, there would be some capitalistic business out there making the products needed for this treatment. With a product comes advertizing, and with advertizing comes consumer manipulation.
"

Would it be any more capitalist then the people who already make life support systems to keep them alive?

Euthanasia can be the humane choice for ANY living thing, if the thing wants to. It's their life to live and die how they want.

Personally, I believe suicide is a murder, even if it is murder of oneself, and to terminate life is suicide, so I would never, ever do it. However, if somebody wants to terminate their life in a humane way, who am I to stop them? If it is their conscious descision, I do not think it appropriate to take away their freedom and rights just becauase I disagree.

Yah, how is euthanasia inhuman? And it is not used to get rid of pesky pets, it is used to put old or sickly animals out of their misery and suffering by terminating their life. Euthanasia is more humane than having them die a slow and painful death, which is often the case.

To gauge what is and is not humane is in itself a questionable feat. I understand the essence of what is humane is typically doing what is showing compassion and sympathy for people and animals.

It specifically states people and animals. So how are we able to treat people and animals differently? If a human is medically distressed, how long is it before we put them down? Then compare it to how we use the same measurements on our aging pets.

Typically, there is no real humanity involved. Most people will act humanely in these situations only when they are close to them. This is not humane. How many random people walking on the street would give up a kidney to save somebody they have never met? What humane involves is a blanket set of ethics. It is a method to make decisions regarding all species involved, regardless of their affiliation.

"how is euthanasia inhuman?"

What I see as inhumane is our perspective to let our elderly humans "die a slow and painful death" rather than putting them "out of their misery and suffering by terminating their life."

It is not that euthanasia is inhumane, it is our hypocritical tendencies which depend upon the species that patient may happen to be.

What I see as inhumane is our perspective to let our elderly humans "die a slow and painful death" rather than putting them "out of their misery and suffering by terminating their life."

It is not that euthanasia is inhumane, it is our hypocritical tendencies which depend upon the species that patient may happen to be.

I was saying it is humane for us to put ANIMALS as in dogs and cats, out of their misery. I do not think it morally right to do the same to humans and I think there is a very large difference.

"How many random people walking on the street would give up a kidney to save somebody they have never met?"

It's an unfair question to ask someone to give up their own health for someone else, because if you lose yourself as a priority, then you become a doormat.

Lauren wrote: "Would it be any more capitalist then the people who already make life support systems to keep them alive?"

It is not more capitalistic for those people who produce life support systems. That doesn't make it right. The big difference I am focusing on with the marketing is that instead of expensive 'life support' equipment, we have a big business venture who may actually try to put assisted suicide products into high demand. That is my big fear if this were to happen.

And you, Lauren, are right, my question about giving up a kidney wasn't fair. What i was trying to point out was how people tend to not care what is happening to other people until it happens to somebody close to them.

Most people don't. But that doesn't make them bad people. :)

What exactly are you talking about with this pushing suicide products? I don't see exactly what you mean.

That's human nature. You hear about this stuff on the news and you empathise, but you don't SEE it until someone in your life is dealing with it.

Lauren wrote:
"What exactly are you talking about with this pushing suicide products? I don't see exactly what you mean. "

It is the nature of big business to advertize the cause that make their product more appealing. Death is big business. Consider how expensive it is to bury somebody you love. It is cynical i know, but it is a business. If assisting suicides and practiced euthanasia are mandated, i am certain there would be a financial angle corporations would use just as life support equipment manufacturers.

No more then any other product would be pushed in any other industry.

nurses are the ones who finally inject the stuff, and they could give the family all the information before they make the final decision

not some man in black coat and black sunglasses with a needle in his hand who walks into random patient rooms injecting poor innocent people

well,for me it depend on the person involved..
but this case has also been misused by some other doctors around the world in making and earning some money..
me and the whole class have been putting this issues on the top of our discussion and of course we still dun find any other way for it to be solved..i'm a medical-student-to-be and probably a doctor-in-the-future.. means i have to know more on this issues as it sometimes has been a burden and major problems for docs and physicist worldwide..

what i wanna mention is euthanasia need to be understand deeply because when we are talking about euthanasia then we are talking about one's live and the future of many persons involved - also,us!in my religion , this issue is totally illegal as it merely about killing someone else - though the patient asked for that.we,as human do not have the right for determining what would be the time for us to die..God has given a chance to live evn how much pain we have to suffer , that will be a test for every single mankind on this world..He wanna see if we are willing and be able to handle the test or not. i know , and i can not easily tell u this cause i'm not experiencing the truth..but , all that i know is no matter how big is the matter , we are already been given an intellect to decide and choose either it is right or wrong..

for me euthanasia is sumtin an endless matter. as a patient or sumone who suffering the pain , we have also to think of the other people around , who still need us..we may feel like a burden or whateva to them but believe me , they need us..though they know that we may not live any longer..they wanna stay with us..as much time they have..we are not evn a burden..never.

for every doctors and people around , euthanasia is not a power given on us..we may said the patient need to stop from suffering the pain , then they been given poison or any other chemicals or possible ways which may lead to euthanasia..i know it's hard to decide..for me,all u have to do is to hve a talk to the family , support and possible solve for the problem..

i need ur response guys..sory because my english isn't that good..but i try my best to deliver my own view..

If a person has the liberty to live as they please, why deny that right in death?

they have the right..but dun u think it against the nature..and it seems to rebel to the Creator..He then knows well, even more about us,rite..

one more thing..it sounds freaky to say , people also has the rights to die..well,the one who suffers knows better than us but i feel it will be an inspiration for other people around to see how strong he or she , one who suffers to still determine staying alive , fighting for their life..

there was a true story from japan..a girl of 17 years old had fought for her own life.she suffered of an unknown disease - spinocerebellar degeneration disease which cannot be cure , until now.. researchers , neurologists and doctors worldwide are still searching for the cure and it has taken almost [ might be more :] 40 years to find the cure though this seems to be unsolved..
this kind of disease is one of a group of genetic disorders characterized by slowly progressive incoordination of gait and often associated with poor coordination of hands, speech, and eye movements. The symptoms of an ataxia vary with the specific type and with the individual patient. Generally, a person with ataxia retains full mental capacity but may progressively lose physical control.
the 17-years japanese girl had to suffer for about 8 years which every single second brought her to be incapable of doing her activities..
but this is the main thing i wanna stress.. she never decided on her own to die..along the 8 painful years she still wnna live with her family and friends and people around evn sometimes the public had insulted for her physical disabilities..she'd never gave up..
and now, she had died..
in fact, people really inspired her until the story of her painful disease is adapted into one of drama series in japan..amazingly,this drama got the highest rating in japan..
u better try to watch that drama..

all i wanna say is that..we are born to be strong and determine..nothing is sweet.u got to to go through a very risk way of life bfore u can reach the sweetest part..
just have to believe.human have no rights on killing themselves or even assisting people to kill..

when you are going to die anyways in a couple days and every second in your life is filled with excruciating pain that sends you into shrieks of agony what would you want to happen then.

ya..
u're rite..
i just can't deny for that..
cause one day i'll be facing the same thing..
but let's try to be always positive in our own life..
thre are so many people outside thre , filled with the pain..still,they have the intention to stay alive..
if it happen to me..i just hope that God will give me the strength to keep on living for the world..
for myself..cause i'm still craving for His blessings..
haha..i'm just a kinda too much sins..
well,sumhow this thing brings me to a level where i really want to be sumone who at lis can help people with the misery and horribly pain to live for long and more..
pray for me to be a doc..huhu

what if there isn't a god? what then?

u dun believe in God..
so how come u're created here?
mmm,God cannot be seen..but u just have to feel His presence in everywhere..
i give u an example..
imagine..

a man comes to you..
then suddenly he slap you without any reasons..
feels like ur skin burnt out..
what will you feel?

no i do not believe in god. evolution. there is SO much evidence that it happened. there is NO evidence that god created us. http://www.humboldt.edu/~mrc1/main.shtml
i would feel like i need to call the cops and get that man arrested because he is PHYSCO! and needs to get mental treatment. and that would never happen.

haha..
u're totally freakin gurl i've nver seen bfore..

try to put urself into the moment..
or maybe i've to come to you,giving u slap so that u can find the point i want u to get..

mmm...thre are some bunch of people hve tht kinda way of thinking..dun blieve in God..predicting that everything is hppened by chance..

it could be evolution.but it will be interesting if you try to relate some of the evolution-thinking with the facts in ur Holy Book..gotta try..scientist did the research but something that u have to know.. they did it with a guidance..a Book.and the book is actually the Holy Quran and Bible with the help of experiment and whatever..

slapping somebody is against the law in america. if the only way to get your point across is physical violence than there must be something wrong with the point. everything didn't happen by chance. millions of years of evolution isn't chance. and i am a deist not an atheist. the scientist did NOT use the bible to help them. where did you get that?

slapping also is actually against the human ethics and religion..is not only in America..previously, all the science theories was found by islamic scholars somewhere over million years ago..
hve you ever heard the name of islamic scholars like 'Al-Khawarizmi' , 'al-Biruni' , and many others?
they were the founders of what the scientist got today..
i'm not being bious..even those scholars found all the sciences theoritical by the help of Holy Quran..
many of the scientist converted to Islam after discovered in their research because they using the Holy Quran as some sort of references

give an example.

I am the atheist, not Liz.

Slapping is against religion. *Totally.* Hence

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Infidels and Gays Should Die

So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)

More Rape and Baby Killing

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

don't you love the evil bible :)

I know! :D

thanks for sharing that site, i think that was the thing that finally made me 100% no longer catholic

It's so nice to hear that. When you debate, like me, sometimes you think no one will ever understand. No one can get it. But people, like you, do get it. :D

people are soooo close minded. i hope to have an open mind, and learn as much as i can before i die. i want to know who i am based on fact instead of lies. and people like you help me find that out :)

thanks

Aw! *hug time*

My only advice is, read as much as you can, about everything you want to learn. :) So many facts, so many books...and watch Discovery and History Channel. :D And not just watch, go to Natural History museums, see the bones. Think, standing in the same room of the remains of a creature 35 million or more years old, preserved in time forever. Millions. Looking up at the stars, and no matter where you look, you're looking into infinity, the light you see a portal in time, seeing a star as it looked a billion years ago. Your own hands, typing, each movement precise, the many tendons and ligaments, working together, the unsurpassed dexterity of your fingers. All of it, from a natural process, over many many years, so delicately, forming killing machines like wolves, but the veins in the wings of a butterfly. Each organism, so suited to it's location, in tune with it's habitat, perfectly balanced.

What could religion ever offer to replace reality.

that was beautiful...

*^.^*

Sometimes I wax poetic randomly.

:) i do like watching the discovery and history channel, but probably should watch more of it. last summer we went to dc and visited the smithsonian and it was one of the coolest experiences i ever had. nature has always fascinated me.