Modern Good Reads discussion

It's worth mentioning 'Jeeves' the perfect butler from P.G.Wodehouse's books.

Sonya from "Crime and Punishment." I was young.

Holden Caufield, I was a teenager when I read it and it stuck with me.

I agree with Laurie and Dianne.

Holden Caulfield, the amazing, scatterbrained narrator in J.D. Salinger's classic, "The Catcher in the Rye", revealed that teenagers in 1945 were not much different than those living today.

I remember thinking, while trying to follow Holden's rambling, often illogical narration, that this kid was even more screwed up than I was at his age and that is saying something.

I will throw out a name, I wonder how many read books that were written outside of the English Language domain. I have read this - about him more than sixty years ago but his name stuck with me for ever.
A factotum, a man Friday, a travelling companion and a man that knows everything about Arabia. He calls himself, Haji Halef Omar ben Hadji ibn Abdaul Abbas al Gossara...

Erich wrote: "I will throw out a name, I wonder how many read books that were written outside of the English Language domain. I have read this - about him more than sixty years ago but his name stuck with me for..."

He was the servant/companion of the main character in Karl May's novel about a would-be pilgrim who never actually made the pilgrimage to Mecca.

Jim wrote: "Erich wrote: "I will throw out a name, I wonder how many read books that were written outside of the English Language domain. I have read this - about him more than sixty years ago but his name stu..."
Excellent, Karl May wrote 53 books, these books you would call at todays standards, YA books. He was a liar and a cheat, his books sold over twenty million and still sold after his death. Adventures concocted while in prison. Thanks for knowing Jim.

Is that what they mean when they say 'Mind over matter'
or is it the beginning of 'Oldtimers'? We remember the day we are borne, but damn it where are my keys?

Carl wrote: "Sonya from "Crime and Punishment." I was young."

That was my first big read and I, too , have never forgotten it. Good call :-)

I agree. I try to make all of my characters flawed (also then not stereotypes) and feedback consistently says people like that. It is something LIonel Shriver does well

I like Nora Roberts, but what annoys me is her tendency to make so many of her characters beautiful. I would rather have characters like those created by Jayne Ann Krentz. I will never forget the opening line from one of her very old books.
"He was the ugliest man in the bar, and he had his eye on her."
Of course, by the end of the book our heroine had a different perspective. Somehow he was not ugly anymore, but had become exiting and rugged.

As mentioned in the first comment of the thread!!!-who can forget Scarlet O'Hara???? Even though she's not exactly ideal as a woman, I loved loved loved her! Add to the list Elizabeth Bennet and Fitwilliam Darcy! I love both of them so much! Even though opposites, their characters have always been my favorites:):)

Unforgettable women include Meg, Jo, Amy, and Beth.

The quote is "well behaved women rarely make history"

my quote for the day...' women do not need to be good to find a place in history, they have to be daring...Emilia Earhard, Mata Hari, Joan of Arc, Thatcher, and of course a little girl named Mahala.

We are drifting off topic, but I would like to encourage all male writers to pay attention to how they are portraying girls and women in their stories. One of the best things that happened to me, as a writer, was the criticism I received from girls who liked my post apocalypse book, but who felt that it focused too much on the boys and not enough on the girls. That criticism made me a better writer.

LOL...sexist it may be, but it is correct. Is it that hard to comprehend for woman that a man, most men write about something they know...? Did he know a Geisha, did he consort in those circles? But to write about the opposite sex is not that hard, when we describe them we follow the pattern how we see them, what we know and what we read in other books. Some of the men portrait in Romance follow a pattern to, look at the cover of the book. There are many training manuals written for Geisha, it is a profession, many believe it is the pleasure trade, sometimes yes but times have changed even in Japan. Now Geisha are being exported into other countries to accommodate the Japanese businessman away from home. Sort of keep the custom worldwide. As far as writing about the opposite sex it is no different for men to write about women as it is for the opposite. When Mitchel wrote Gone With The Wind she created Rhett Butler out of her imagination. We do the same.

Writing about people who are different is a good exercise for a writer. Men should write about women, and women should write about men. It might come out wrong, but the exercise is a good one, it expands the writer's thinking process. When I first started writing, I was focused on those things and people I knew about. After years passed, I started setting challenges for myself. Can I do this? Can I write from the viewpoint of a 14 year old girl? Can I write a story that skirts the line between sensuality and erotica? These are good ways to practice your craft.

Writers are, generally, advised to write about what they know, as they can write more knowledgeably on those subjects. But exploring new ideas and angles can be fun too.

I am sure there are several viewpoints on the subject. I am sure you can recite a 14 year old girl fairly successful for a adult reader. But to write about her in a first person incident, other 14 year olds may not take you serious! Your mindset will have matured (hopefully) and your again because the element of age come important in a head to head conversation you may just flounder into mediocrity. But that is my take on scrapping what you know and transfer your experience onto a new persona. If you do take this route... ALL THE LUCK YOU CAN MUSTER !

Yes, it's tricky. And you have to be careful. This is a paragraph from Kathy's Recollections. She's was 14 at the time she is describing, but about 21 when relating the tale.

"My mother was not shy about telling me the truth about the birds and the bees, but she sighed more than once over my reticence to discuss sex with her. It wasn’t that I did not know the basics, I just didn’t want to think about such things at that time, so I was not happy when I discovered that my parents were sending me to a newly organized camp that would teach me the importance of abstinence while also instructing me how to use birth control devices like condoms, pills, patches, and intrauterine devices. I had no problem with abstinence, and I was not interested in learning how to roll a condom onto a penis."

She might have, but I hope not too! :-) She may know someone else who has done it, though.

Can we call it 'hearsay' or do we assume the worst?

The statement does not mean, though, that every facet of the story has to be something we know. For example, I write science fiction. Most of my books are set on another planet, but the structures of that planet are not dissimilar to ours. Also, the start of the first book deals with bullying in high school, something I know quite a bit about. Sometimes that statement just means: do you know about love? Write about it. Do you know what it's like to work in a bookstore? Write about it. Do you know politics? Write about it, even if it's politics on a distant planet. It's not an all encompassing statement, but it's a good thing to keep in mind.

I've always taken the view that to write what you know is to write about something you have knowledge of, for example, through research. It's not the narrower meaning of what you know from your own experience. And, of course, if you are writing on a topic on which you have no knowledge, you do the research.

That's true. But it is easier to write about something when you have experienced it. Even thorough research may not give you enough knowledge of the day to day. For example, even though we can research what it was like to live in the 1800s, knowing every detail about it is not as easy, although at least no one can really point out you're wrong.

It's also often seen when men write from a woman's point of view and vice versa. Usually every time I read a book written by a man from a woman's point of view I'm rolling my eyes because I can easily see he's suffering from lack of experience. Some men have done it successfully, but most don't.

At the moment I am writing a novel where the main protagonist is studying social work. I've never studies that, but have a few friends who have and they are helping me. However, it is difficult when crafting this girl's character because, not knowing the intimate details about it, I can't be sure I'm making it affect her character correctly because I've never experienced it myself.

So while not impossible to write about something you don't know, it is more difficult than writing about something you have experienced and runs the risk of being less authoritative.

On the other hand if you're too close to something it can affect your writing in a negative way. I was a social worker but find it impossible to have a main social work character. Instead of writing fiction I start to write reports. I found that as well when I was writing my nonfiction book about indie crime fiction, the procedural crime novels I selected that were written by policemen were absolutely accurate in police procedures, but they read like reports. I tried several but had to give up on them and read police procedural crime novels which weren't written by policemen and found they were far better.

There are probably other things you've experienced, though, that do enhance your writing.

There are pros and cons in every situation, I guess, and every writer's different, but most sites with writing tips will usually include writing about what you know as one of the first tips. In the writing seminars I conduct it's the first point I raise, although I make it clear that doesn't mean that a person can't write outside the realm of his or her experience, just that it's helpful to do that in at least one aspect when it comes to plot or characterisation.

That's very true. I know all about life on the dark side. I know about deprivation and how people live, and that reflects through in my crime books as part of the background material, so it's of use in relation to description and setting, but not plotting and characterization. That comes entirely from my imagination! I just find if I'm too close to something it restricts the imaginative process. Oh, and I've written historical crime as well, and I didn't live it. That's all knowledge from research.

Memorable characters for me include Molly Grue from "The Last Unicorn," Miss Scarlett O'Hara from "Gone With the Wind," Mr. Rhett Butler from "Gone With the Wind," and Aminata Diallo from "Someone Knows My Name."

I recently read a book by Francine Prose (nomenclature is destiny!) in which she, a white woman, narrated from the POV of a black man. I thought it worked. I'm now reading a book by her in which there are multiple POVs of characters living in Paris in the 30s!

My most memorable character is Lynda Coldridge in Doris Lessing's The Four Gated City.

Maggie wrote: "Memorable characters for me include Molly Grue from "The Last Unicorn," Miss Scarlett O'Hara from "Gone With the Wind," Mr. Rhett Butler from "Gone With the Wind," and Aminata Diallo from "Someone ..."

I'm currently reading Goe with the Wind with a couple hundred pages to go. I have to aree that Miss Scarlett is indeed memorable!

I read Gone With the Wind a long time ago as well as seeing the film and I agree that Scarlett O'Haraand Rhett Butler were memorable characters.