Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion

My editor/proofreader always changes my manuscript to "all right."

The movie 'Cloud Atlas' uses futuristic slang. Which I assume is their way to show that it is in the future.

We talk differently, in all languages, than 50, 100, 500 years ago.

Is it valid to use an invented futuristic version of English, Spanish or Chinese In a Science Fiction story happening in the future?

"Alright" is considered nonstandard English, so you should use "all right" unless you're trying to create a certain tone for a character.

Humberto wrote: "We talk differently, in all languages, than 50, 100, 500 years ago. ..."

That doesn't matter, though. Its irrelevant. There is a current standard for contemporary English writing; and rather than ask for leeway or that special-exceptions-be-made, its best just to obey the standard.


Humberto wrote: "Is it valid to use an invented futuristic version of English, Spanish or Chinese In a Science Fiction story happening in the future? ..."

Yes, that is valid as a stylistic choice.

Another one in favour of 'all right'. In time, no doubt, alright will follow altogether and already into regular, accepted usage but, until it does, I use 'all right'.

All right? ;)

Kellie wrote: "I read an article that said using 'alright' was considered unacceptable in the writing world. I'm from the sticks and 'alright' is part of our normal language. So, should I replace all the 'alright..."

'Alright' is rather antiquated British usage; "all right" is modern American.

Take that for what you will. I use "all right."

Hmm is this the place to discuss "out loud" versus "aloud"

Until recently, 'alright' was not considered to be a word by most American dictionaries, but rather a misspelling of 'all right'. That is changing; however, as common usage of 'alright' is leading to acceptance.

This is one of those words that stumps me all the time. While I use alright and never find myself using all right I still question myself from time to time as to whether or not I should use the other.

I learned that it's all right. Alright is considered informal. But most people don't care whether they read all right or alright, since many are not English pros. To be on the safe side, I use all right when writing my novels.

I think either aloud or out loud is correct since it's not an informal/formal thing. Aloud seems just a little more archaic for today's way of speaking.

Elaina wrote: "I learned that it's all right. Alright is considered informal. But most people don't care whether they read all right or alright, since many are not English pros. To be on the safe side, I use all ..."

That's what I learned. Best to play it safe and use all right.

For what it's worth, here is Merriam Webster's write-up on the issue.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/alright

Note first known usage in 1887. Also this quote from Gertrude Stein: "the first two years of medical school were alright"

The Chicago Manual of Style states, in its "good usage v. common usage" section, that it should always be two words: all right. Since CMS is considered to be the publishing industry's standard, that's what I go with when editing. And now it's started to really bug me when I see "alright" in books.

I've seen both. I've seen 'alright' used in dialogue, but 'all right' used elsewhere. I always say 'alright', but I don't think that is the proper use, it's slang. So when writing, stick with 'all right'.

My editor called me out on this. After looking it up (because I very much felt that "alright" should be "all right" within the confines of dialogue) I had to admit that my research showed that "alright" is still considered a misspelling. So, I revised all of my "alrights" even in dialogue, and now I notice that all of my favorite authors use "all right" all the time... so I feel that I made the right decision. :)

I think it's one of those words that tends to jump out at you, once you've changed it in your own work.

Lynda wrote: "I think it's one of those words that tends to jump out at you, once you've changed it in your own work."

A lot of things are like that. I would guess that in my first book I used 'Alright' and didn't even realize it. I'm afraid to go back and check. There's no telling what other things I might find. But I haven't gotten any comments or complaints about my word choice, so I guess it can't be too bad.

There are worse things to screw up. Thousands of books out there prove it.

:)

Lynda wrote: "There are worse things to screw up. Thousands of books out there prove it.

:)"

I like you.

I am glad I read this post. Very informative.

I have been hearing lately that alright is now accepted. I still try to remember to write all right, but it looks strange.

Mona wrote: "I have been hearing lately that alright is now accepted. I still try to remember to write all right, but it looks strange."

It does look strange. Sigh. I do prefer the misspelled version.

I had an absolutely fabulous English teacher in high school who answered all of our "why" questions (why do we cite things like that? Why are there so many different methods of citing (MLA, APA, Chicago style)? Why are there always exceptions to ever English rule?) by informing us all that there were 7 men in a tower and their job was to create grammar rules. They often argued, and every couple of years they all changed their minds, which is why the rules of English and grammar are in what appears to be a constant state of flux.

It became a class joke. And now, when it's suddenly okay to punctuate a possessive noun that ends with an s like this: it was the class's fault - when I learned that it was the class' fault, I just shake my head and think to myself... "Seven men in a tower."

Is this for real? It's alright to increase our plurals's S count? yuk yuk yuk.

Does that apply to nouns that end in single s as well?

yeah I made the switch from alright to All right. I was very indignant about it at first saying, "But that's how I've always written it!" The sentiment was holding back my writing from its full potential.

Also, why bother putting alright into dialogue? It sounds the same as the two word version in my opinion. Maybe to cut out the pause between words? I say go All Right all day.

Is it just me, or does this discussion make you think of Matthew McConaughey?

Fletcher wrote: "Is it just me, or does this discussion make you think of Matthew McConaughey?"

(Says in think Texan accent) : "Allllrigghhhht."

Exactly, Bryan!

It's kind of MM's catchphrase, Kellie.

How weird, the book I'm reading now used all right. ''Are you all right?'' I've never seen it written like that before.

Justin wrote: "How weird, the book I'm reading now used all right. ''Are you all right?'' I've never seen it written like that before."

Justin, you'll notice it every single time now. You won't be able to NOT notice it. Trust me.

Lynda wrote: "Justin wrote: "How weird, the book I'm reading now used all right. ''Are you all right?'' I've never seen it written like that before."

Justin, you'll notice it every single time now. You won't be..."

And you've probably seen it like that thousands of times before and didn't know it. That is, if you read non-indie books. I would have thought the same as you, up to recently, but then I happened upon it in Strunk and White (need to read that more often) and, as Lynda said, I started noticing it everywhere.

Your so right. It's one of those things where you come across it once and from then on boom! It pops up everywhere and you wonder where the old version you were used to went..then again whose to say you werent seeing the new word the whole time?

Jenelle wrote: there were 7 men in a tower and their job was to create grammar rules.

I expect these guys are in cahoots with the Four Wise Clerks of Oxenford, whose job is to decide what words mean (see Farmer Giles of Ham - page 15 in my edition.)

C.M.J. wrote: ""Alright" is considered nonstandard English, so you should use "all right" unless you're trying to create a certain tone for a character."
are u talking UK english or US...pretty sure UK abides by alright

"All right then," seems less than "alright then," in my opinion. I wouldn't think hairs should be split over this one.

David wrote: pretty sure UK abides by alright

Well, I'm English, and I've always written 'all right', not 'alright'.

Here's the Oxford Dictionaries view.

That's always been my understanding, too. Alright is all right, but all right is better.

I have been hearing people say 'lighted' instead of 'lit'. Which is correct, or is it a matter of choice?

Plain and simple: "alright" is not a word. Everyone anywhere will tell you that, and no editor will let "alright" get by.

It's confusing because "already" is a word.

So, it's not a matter of how you speak or where you live. It's a matter of proper use of the language. Just go with it, or you will look silly.

Submit a manuscript with "alright" in it, and you will be recognized as an amateur.

Michael E. Henderson

Michael wrote: "alright" is not a word

Nah. If it's in a reputable dictionary as a word, it's a word. Merriam-Webster lists it as a word; Oxford Dictionaries lists it as a word. So it's a word, even though some people claim it isn't. However, it's a word that's best avoided if you don't want to get into time-wasting discussions and irritate your editor.

Nemo wrote: "...it's a word that's best avoided if you don't want to get into time-wasting discussions and irritate your editor."

Clutching my copy of The Chicago Manual of Style and resisting the urge to shout "Amen!" to not irritating your editor.

I love these threads.

F.F. wrote: "Is this for real? It's alright to increase our plurals's S count? yuk yuk yuk.

Does that apply to nouns that end in single s as well?"

Yep. Which is annoying... and I follow the old rule (as do most authors I read... but that is what they're teaching in schools). This does not apply to PROPER nouns yet, so the old rule still applies there. For example: It is still correct to say that Marcus' friends all think the fact that his name ends in an "s" was a mean joke on all his future friends by his parents, who were, in fact, English teachers.

Jenelle wrote: "I follow the old rule (as do most authors I read... but that is what they're teaching in schools). This does not apply to PROPER nouns yet, so the old rule still applies there. For example: It is still correct to say that Marcus' friends all think the fact that his name ends in an "s" was a mean joke on all his future friends by his parents, who were, in fact, English teachers."

This is something that drives me crazy on a regular basis. I also follow the old rule, because that extra "s" will always look wrong to me.

I just read an online article last night (of course I can't remember where) that discussed the use or removal of the "s" based on pronunciation of the word and whether the "s" adds an extra syllable.

I appreciate the "this is wrong; this is right" rules so much more than the subjective things.

Jenelle wrote: And now, when it's suddenly okay to punctuate a possessive noun that ends with an s like this: it was the class's fault - when I learned that it was the class' fault, I just shake my head

So do I, but maybe not for the same reason. "It's suddenly okay?" Who says so, and what's their authority? Where are the tablets of stone with the signature of the Almighty?

That's not how language works.

There is an ancient myth that what makes language use right or wrong is its following or not following a rule. This, if you think about it, has to be nonsense, because there's no-one to make the rule except we ourselves, who use the language. The 'rule', then, is simply - if we do it, it's okay. ('Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.' Actually that's Satanism. We'll quickly draw a veil over that.)

There's nothing wrong with either Marcus' or Marcus's. (Though yes, I do feel rather sorry for Marcus. Perhaps he should shorten his name to Mark.) People regularly use both, and because people regularly use both, both are OK. No-one, absolutely no-one, is in a position to invent a rule that says one of them isn't OK. One of them may in the future drop completely out of use, and at that point we can say that it's become obsolete; but even that wouldn't mean that it wasn't OK. 'Not OK' and 'obsolete' aren't the same thing.

I've never come across class' - I've only ever seen class's - but if people are actually using class', then class' is OK. Personally I think it looks silly, but that's just because of my upbringing.

Lynda wrote; I appreciate the "this is wrong; this is right" rules so much more than the subjective things.

Both views are incorrect, I'm afraid. It isn't subjective: it's about how people are actually using language, which is an objective fact. And there are no rules, either, because a rule tells people what to do, and there's no-one who can do that.

Nemo wrote: "Jenelle wrote: And now, when it's suddenly okay to punctuate a possessive noun that ends with an s like this: it was the class's fault - when I learned that it was the class' fault, I just shake m..."

You must be younger than me, because adding that extra "s" is something that's come into fashion (is that better than saying "become OK"?) in the past 10-15 years. Before that, it was a strict "no-no."

Or, looking at your profile... perhaps that extra "s" is something the UK has always done, and we in the "colonies" :) have simply avoided its use until more recently. We do like to do "language" our own way over here. :) haha

Jenelle wrote: "You must be younger than me, because adding that extra "s" is something that's come into fashion (is that better than saying "become OK"?) in the past 10-15 years. Before that, it was a strict "no-no."

I was thinking the same thing: either age or perhaps a non-US person—but I didn't bother looking at your profile, Nemo.

That extra "s" was always a good reason for my teachers to have a large red mark on English papers when I was in school. I do understand that the language evolves and we adjust, but this is one particular habit I can't seem to get my brain around because there are no hard and fast standards for it today. I guess my personal rule would be to have consistency throughout the book, and if the author insists on that extra "s," well, it's ultimately not my book, so I'd have to leave it in there.

You won't learn much from my profile. There's a reason I call myself 'Nemo'.

Jenelle wrote: because adding that extra "s" is something that's come into fashion (is that better than saying "become OK"?)

Yes, it is better (IMHO). I think language use is a matter of customs, not rules. Customs change, like fashions. But this is just my view: I'm not speaking for the whole of the UK here. Wouldn't dare.

My feeling is, people have the right to write what they want. If it annoys me, I don't have to read it. Since my quiet ambition is to someday become a widely recognized author, I will do my best to write in a way that won't annoy other people.

Sharon wrote: "Kellie wrote: "I read an article that said using 'alright' was considered unacceptable in the writing world. I'm from the sticks and 'alright' is part of our normal language. So, should I replace a..."

Oh, I'm British and in the 60s, when I was quite young, I was always taught to use "all right". In fact my teacher was emphatic that "alright" was incorrect so if it is antiquated British use, it must be very old. I have no idea what they teach in schools now. Worryingly I come across teachers, occasionally, who can't spell.

Loretta wrote: "Sharon wrote: "Kellie wrote: "I read an article that said using 'alright' was considered unacceptable in the writing world. I'm from the sticks and 'alright' is part of our normal language. So, sho..."

Seems pretty simple to me. When you question your spelling of a word, go to the dictionary. Despite Nemo's opinion that there are no rules (with which I disagree), use of a REAL bound dictionary is never a bad idea. I trust the Internet not at all. Believing what is said on the Internet is a lot like believing everything one sees on television, in my opinion.

Kellie wrote: "I read an article that said using 'alright' was considered unacceptable in the writing world. I'm from the sticks and 'alright' is part of our normal language. So, should I replace all the 'alright..."

If anyone tells you "alright" is unacceptable in the writing world, I have only one word for them:

Salinger. :)