Catching up on Classics (and lots more!) discussion

A place to discuss chapters 1 - 17. No spoilers beyond that point please.

I don't know if the author is doing some the things he is doing consciously or it could be the times. The backhanded racial compliments for example are questioning. One sentence he is using a slur for African Americans then the next paragraph he is addressing the racism that Asians in America go through.
Another thing that I do not know if he is doing purposely is the way that the women are portrayed. Most of the women are really religious and the stereotypical woman. Cathy is not the like the other women because she is a sociopath. I find that it interesting that the woman who is different is seen as a person without emotions or abnormal.
I like Cathy and Charles because they are both crazy. I like that they are not the faux crazy that means they never do anything to earn that title.
I have been reading a lot of books lately that have women characters who are good and have no dimensions beyond that. I think that is the main reason I like Cathy. Cathy also brings up the idea of seeing someone for who they are versus who you think/want them to be. Their are only few people who see her for who she really is. Most people shrug off who she is to conform her to who they want her to be. Then again it is easier to see her as something else than what she really is.
I find all of it so interesting.

Sara, I think it was Toni Morrison who posited the theory that a writer is half fallible(subject to racism, sexism, etc.)human and half clear-sighted truthteller. Maybe we see that ambivalence in the portrayals you mention in Eden.

Shelley
http://dustbowlstory.wordpress.com

When I started reading this book, I half expected the plot to be forced. It had to fit into another story of a man, woman and two brothers, so how couldn't it be?

I was very wrong.

The plot flows beautifully. The characters are anything but stereotypical and I don't think I will be able to put this book down until I am done.

At this point I find a number of Hamiltons endearing, especially Samuel. My loyalties keep switching between Adam and Charles Trask. Cathy terrifies me, yet I can't help but feel sorry for her anyway. All in all it has been a solid, enjoyable read.

I just finished Pat 1, Part 2 begins at chapter 12. When Charles was being introduced, as a child and adolescent, I thought he sounded like a sociopath. He's got *nuthin!* on Cathy! She terrifies me too, Maggie ... and, yea, you kinda feel a little sorry for her too. But only a little!

I wonder what she did to the old schoolmaster, and if the book let's on about it later. Also, I wonder if that was tied up in her reason for going to Boston.

To me this story has some of the greatest characters in literature, but my mind is drawing a blank as I’m trying to think of characters that are equal to, or that exceed Cathy’s casual evilness. The only thing that seems to have been missing at Cathy’s birth is horns and a tail.

So, is Cathy Ames literature's all time greatest villain?

I think Iago might be a close runner-up to Cathy, Bob.

Sara wrote: " Cathy also brings up the idea of seeing someone for who they are versus who you think/want them to be. Their are only few people who see her for who she really is. Most people shrug off who she is to conform her to who they want her to be. Then again it is easier to see her as something else than what she really is. ..." I think this is a very interesting component of this book. Poor Adam was truly deluded it seems. The rest simply found it easier to make her conform to what they want. Interesting however, that of those who see her evil side, Charles is also a psychopath(although so far not nearly to the same extent) and Samuel and Lee are such truly good people.

Bob wrote: "So, is Cathy Ames literature's all time greatest villain? "

Definitely a good candidate.

Personally I think it is the guy who gets a tattoo in The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. (Sorry for being a little cryptic, but I do not want to spoil anything.)

In Sherlock Holmes many will probably point to Professor Moriarty - possibly historical important for introducing the concept of arch villain. Personally I think the villain The Adventure of the Speckled Band is more evil.

I don’t remember the details, but there must be someone in Beloved.

The Revisit the Shelf book for September 2023 is East of Eden by John Steinbeck.

I'm not sure what to think of this one yet. The only person we've gotten to know well who is at all likeable is Adam. But he is surrounded by terrible people doing terrible things to him (first his father and brother, and now he has married a psychopath), so it's not exactly enjoyable reading about even him.

On the other hand, the writing is sometimes quite wonderful.

For now, I'm sticking with this, since so many people seem to love the book. I don't find it hard to keep reading or anything, but I definitely don't love it yet. Hopefully that's still coming!