Classics and the Western Canon discussion

Now we are back to philosophy and war,

It took me until book 13 to actually start to like Pierre. Up until book 13 he was just too wishy washy for my taste. His constant search for identity seems to have begun to bear fruit in this book and he seems to have begun to know himself. I like Tolstoy's description of happiness - how it all depends on what you are focused on.

The other interesting thing I remember from book 13 was the way that Tolstoy describes how the tide suddenly turns in favor of Russia. The letter to Kutusov from Napoleon is described as something like a wail from a wounded wolf, and from that moment on the Russian army begins to gather the strength to advance while the only sensible action for the dissipated army of Napoleon is retreat. Fascinating.

Book 13 chapter 2

The beast wounded at Borodino was lying where the fleeing hunter had left him; but whether he was still alive, whether he was strong and merely lying low, the hunter did not know. Suddenly the beast was heard to moan.

The moan of that wounded beast (the French army) which betrayed its calamitous condition was the sending of Lauriston to Kutuzov's camp with overtures for peace.

Kutuzov writes back that the "spirit of his nation" would never allow a peace settlement and so refuses. Tolstoy continues:

During the month that the French troops were pillaging in Moscow and the Russian troops were quietly encamped at Tarutino, a change had taken place in the relative strength of the two armies — both in spirit and in number — as a result of which the superiority had passed to the Russian side. Though the condition and numbers of the French army were unknown to the Russians, as soon as that change occurred the need of attacking at once showed itself by countless signs. These signs were: Lauriston's mission; the abundance of provisions at Tarutino; the reports coming in from all sides of the inactivity and disorder of the French; the flow of recruits to our regiments; the fine weather; the long rest the Russian soldiers had enjoyed, and the impatience to do what they had been assembled for, which usually shows itself in an army that has been resting; curiosity as to what the French army, so long lost sight of, was doing; the boldness with which our outposts now scouted close up to the French stationed at Tarutino; the news of easy successes gained by peasants and guerrilla troops over the French, the envy aroused by this; the desire for revenge that lay in the heart of every Russian as long as the French were in Moscow, and (above all) a dim consciousness in every soldier's mind that the relative strength of the armies had changed and that the advantage was now on our side.

Theresa wrote: "It took me until book 13 to actually start to like Pierre. Up until book 13 he was just too wishy washy for my taste. His constant search for identity seems to have begun to bear fruit in this boo..."

my sentiments exactly! It also took me this long to like Natasha for similar reasons. :-)

One thing that I’ve been thinking about while reading this book (13) is Pierre’s attitude towards people and life. He’s always first assuming the good in people and the value each person has. Not only that but he enjoys talking with people and discovering their goodness and appreciating it. Again, he’s not surprised when he finds it because he already assumed it was there. I feel that the kind of gratitude that he’s expressing and the assuming the good in people is a recipe for a very happy and fulfilling life! I wish I could be more like Pierre! :-)

It seems that Tolstoy has continued to write more and more didactically with regard to what seems to be the main thrust of the book -- the relationship between individuals and larger historical trends.

While the venture into a bit of calculus a few books ago was rather intriguing, Tolstoy made me laugh out loud with what it so far his most poignant (and patently hilarious) analogy toward this main point:

Napolean, during all this time of his activity, was like a child who, holding the straps tied inside a carriage, fancies that he is driving it.

I will do my best to resist the temptation to post this quote on my boss's office door.

Kyle wrote: "I will do my best to resist the temptation to post this quote on my boss's office door..."

RFLOL! Great way to end the evening, Kyle!

LMAO Kyle! Mine too!
Teresa said in her first post that it took long to like Pierre, I agree, he's finally becoming a worthy man, and not merely someone swept along.
I've had mixed feelings about Natasha throughout the book, loved her vivacity as a child; then she irritated me with the Anatole business. Often strikes me as a melodramatic madam, but maybe that's just me.

Lisa wrote: "Often strikes me as a melodramatic madam, but maybe that's just me...."

Natasha served Tolstoy pretty well as a character in telling a story, however?

His characters are so real; it often becomes difficult to acknowledge them as fictional and thus give us any distance in assessing them.

Lily wrote: "Natasha served Tolstoy pretty well as a character in telling a story, however?

His characters are so real; it..."

That is true, she did serve well as a character, she changes as her maturity changes, which reflects most people. I think that Tolstoy's ability to create characters that we do not necessarily like but can empathize with, is a remarkanle strength.

Ooo, didn't know that! Will do.

Patrice wrote: "I hate to sound like a broken record but Tolstoy did not exactly create the character of Natasha. Sofia, his wife was a drama queen. She was a life force and brilliant and emotional and full of mo..."

You have made the comparison between journal and novel, so I'm not going to disrespect that. However, I believe I long ago also read that Natasha was based on their daughter Tanya, so we seem to have at least three contenders for real life model. Given the changes in the story that R. Christian documents over its long writing and rewriting, I still am unready to abandon the view that W&P is a novel whose characters the author had the freedom to create with all such an author's skills at using, amalgamating, deleting real life characteristics, role models, shadows,....

Patrice wrote: "...I cannot imagine how someone invents characters and stories out of nothing...."

{g} That's probably best left to the protagonist of Genesis!

Patrice wrote: "Oh, I never meant to say that it was non-fiction! Just as he changed Kutosov, Bagration, etc. he was creative! I meant to say that they were based on real people and when you read about the real ..."

Tolstoy addresses this in the appendix. What he says reminds me of the standard disclaimer -- "any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental." It's safe to assume that the resemblance is why the disclaimer is necessary.