Sci-fi and Heroic Fantasy discussion

I am a high school teacher who writes novels on the side. I've always wanted to try my hand at novel writing, so I took about a year and really worked on creating something special.

My goal in writing my novel, LARP: The Battle for Verona, was to create an entertaining YA novel that also taught a lesson. As a teacher, I see lots of kids being bullied, or, they are treated poorly by their peers because of their interests. LARP addresses both of those issues without being preachy.

So, my question to everyone is...because YA novels are geared toward teens, is it important for there to be a lesson in the novel, or should the novels just be entertaining?

I'm still trying to figure out what YA is exactly. What bumps a book into or out of the genre? It makes sense to me that a YA book should have some type of deeper meaning to the story, like many adult fiction. But I don't think it's a requirement. Twilight's message seemed to be that if you can't have the boy you want then just throw yourself off a cliff.

Romeo and Juliet kinda has that message, too, right?!

I taught the Hunger Games a few years ago, and as I was teaching it, the thought occured to me that the novel really doesn't have a purpose, other than to entertain. Because of its popularity, I really think the author missed a chance to use her art for a bigger purpose.

I think part of the method in doing it is like teaching...the best teachers can teach a lesson without the kids knowing it. It's better to use examples, character behavior in this case, than to come out and state the important life lesson.

I taught the Hunger Games a few years ago, and as I was teaching it, the thought occured to me that the novel really doesn't have a purpose, other than to entertain.

With all due respect to your instructional experience, THG has plenty of important life lessons and morals. These increase in number when the entire trilogy is considered. The book was written in order to comment on the horrible effects of war on children. It stems from a moral.




It will be difficult to avoid themes and lessons completely, given that they naturally arise in most narratives, even in genres that do not seem conducive to them (like closed-circle mysteries).

I always prefer reading books that provoke thought, even if the message is not explicit.

I think the primary purpose of a novel is to entertain, but a really good novel teaches something. A great novel makes me makes me think (possibly re-examine core beliefs) & a classic does all of these things at any age. To Kill a Mockingbird is a classic. I read it as a teen (YA) & then last year (about 40 years later) & thoroughly enjoyed it both times. The novel spoke to me both at Jem's & Atticus' ages.

I too wonder about the YA designation & don't care for it much. At times it makes sense, but other times it doesn't. Just because it has a teenage main character doesn't mean it is YA. Too often the language or the story wasn't suitable or of interest.

I am a YA author as well, and I think theme needs to be present. Through theme there's usually a lesson. I think if it's good writing there has to be a lesson. The actual question is if it's a positive statement or not. All good fiction teaches something . . . My opinion anyway.

Justin wrote: "Romeo and Juliet kinda has that message, too, right?!

I taught the Hunger Games a few years ago, and as I was teaching it, the thought occured to me that the novel really doesn't have a purpose, o..."

True, Justin! Though, I suppose it could be argued that Romeo and Juliet is an excellent example of why basic communication is important in a relationship. I guess, as Casey brought out, 'all good fiction teaches something.'

I was disappointed with Hunger Games to. I didn't understand the YA rating considering the subject matter, and then I felt that it glossed over the grim reality of the situation and made it into a love triangle and a 'look at how cool I am when I kill people' story. Basically glorifying the violence.

As Baelor brought out, I've heard that the message becomes stronger in the other two books, but I never got around to reading them. I did hear a lot of comments from parents saying that they let their children read the first book, but they wouldn't be letting them read the sequels because of the escalation of conflict, which I thought was pretty dumb.

Also, forgot to add: Is there a clear definition of YA?

Publishers define YA as a book with a teen hero. That's it!

About the Hunger Games...

I wasn't too impressed with it. Like I said, I thought it was trite and repetitive, with every chapter ending with a cliff hanger, Katiss going back and forth with Peeta and Gale. And the second book is pretty much the first book, with a few minor changes.

no "life lessions"...kids smell that stuff a mile away, and as i rember it use to make us sick...

Romeo and Juliet??? you guys are kidding right?? ask ANY YA reader, The Immortal Bard sucks...couldn't write his way out of a paper bag...he COULD string some pretty words together, but if you want to actualy enjoy reading a book you stay away from The Bard.

Spooky1947 wrote: "Romeo and Juliet??? you guys are kidding right?? ask ANY YA reader, The Immortal Bard sucks...couldn't write his way out of a paper bag...he COULD string some pretty words together, but if you want..."

I LOVE Shakespeare, Spooky, even as a teenager.

"When I was a teenager," (sez the oldphart) "we took our 0 on Shakespeare, and turned in papers on Bradbury, Asimov, and Heinlein instead!!! NOW YOU YOUNG SPACE CADETS GET OFF MY LAWN!!"

(the oldphart drops his blaster and falls asleep in his rocking chair....)

Spooky...I agree. I am an English teacher and I avoid Billy S. as much as possible.

LOL, Spooky. Consider me running away in terror.

Sell, sell, sell! Nothing sells like something already selling.

Now,...packaging. Romeo shirtless in tight jeans. Juliet in a bikini. Or maybe a modern urban setting. Wait...tried that, didn't fly. Sitting Bull head dresses! Yeah..., just need some PROMOTION!

Spooky..., land mines allow for a more restful nap. :}

:p

anti-matter land mines....hehehe

Shakespeare shouldn't be boring & isn't, if it is taught properly. The use of editions that give explanations & summaries on the facing page is a must & so are performances.

Reading his works just doesn't work for most teens, but they're still great stories &, once you get the hang of it, the language is fantastic. The characters are unforgettable. Even updated movie versions have become classics, e.g. "West Side Story".

I had a great teacher who got us through a bunch of his plays & had most of us reading more on our own time. He did it by showing pieces of great performances & having some of the school thespians perform some of the greatest hits. He did Mercutio's Queen Mab speech & made it great. We read along with explanations, so that strange words meant something & didn't just lose us.

My kids were enthralled by Hamlet as kids. All it took was Mel Gibson, their favorite action star (I think just the first 2 Lethal Weapons were out.) performing it. He did a great job as did the rest of the cast. Wonderful remake & it helped that it was on VCR so we could pause & I could explain a bit as needed.

Shakespeare isn't meant to be read IMO, it should be experienced as a performance.

As to YA books, they should speak to the reader about things that relate to their life in some way and maybe give them a new way of looking at a problem. Like how someone deals with first love, bullying, parental issues, finding a life path/career, etc. Nothing too much like a lecture though. The more you can hide the lesson in an entertaining story, the better.

Michele...I agree. As a teacher, I can tell you that it's tough to teach Shakespeare because the language is so different...it's literally a foreign language to the kids. They spend so much time trying to understand the language that they miss the point of the story.

of all the classics i have read, the only on that spoke to me was The Jungle by Sinclar, but then again it speeks to anyone workin' for da man...bill s. does nothing for me

Justin wrote: "Publishers define YA as a book with a teen hero. That's it!

Interesting. I guess the hero part helps to narrow things down. Otherwise, something like Lord of the Flies or Battle Royale would fall into that category.

I too was surprised when I was told all that was required to be YA was a teen protagonist.

While I enjoyed the Hunger Games it didn't strike me as an especially 'deep' novel. Are there clear moral choices being made, of course. Katniss wouldn't be much of a character without them. However the moral dilemma is not the core of the story the adventure is.

In my opinion life-lessons should absolutely be included in YA, if it suits the story and characters. Though I'd suggest a light touch.

Davonne wrote: While I enjoyed the Hunger Games it didn't strike me as an especially 'deep' novel. Are there clear moral choices being made, of course. Katniss wouldn't be much of a character without them. However the moral dilemma is not the core of the story the adventure is.


Being a YA novel, and the fact that it wasn't 'deep', yet the subject matter should have been, was one of the things that disturbed me about Hunger Games. I would have been fine with it if it was just stuck in the SF/F section, but for some reason, all those tweenies with signs reading 'Team Peeta' and 'Team Gale' just made me disgusted. I guess I was expecting it to show the horrors and reality of combat, instead, it came off as a love triangle/combat fashion show.

Sabrina wrote: "Davonne wrote: While I enjoyed the Hunger Games it didn't strike me as an especially 'deep' novel. Are there clear moral choices being made, of course. Katniss wouldn't be much of a character witho..."

If you want 'horrors and reality of combat' with depth then Battle Royale is probably more your speed. I know I was horrified when my agent told me my novel is YA and not just sci-fi. I didn't write it for kids and what 'romance' is there is one-sided and unhealthy.

I like the combat fashion show idea ;)

Davonne wrote:If you want 'horrors and reality of combat' with depth then Battle Royale is probably more your speed.

I've been meaning to read that. I heard that the government really screws with the kids on a psychological level. I saw the movie... but that doesn't count.

Yeah the team Peeta & Gale thing was dumb, and an obvious marketing ploy. Kids today really lack depth. Their entertainment is mostly superficial in its message and presentation. Seeing that at work every day made me want to write something with depth, to counteract the shallow nature of 21st century YA fun.

Back when I was a kid, we didn't have YA, but had 'juvenile' fiction. In either case, I don't think it should be limited to having a teenage main character. Where does that leave books like Black Beauty? IMO, that's YA, although it's a good read as an adult, too.

I liked "Battle Royale", although not the ending so much as I recall. I certainly liked it better than "The Hunger Games", but not as much as "Lord of the Flies".