Miévillians discussion

Several of our members have expressed a desire to read Snow Crash, and Mid-December seemed an agreeable time to most interested, so we're setting a tentative date for December 18, just to give those of us reading Deathless as well, a bit of breathing space. :)

If there is anyone who wants to read both and would like us to space them farther apart, please let me know!

Is Deathless first then? Just want to do this right!

Well, this is what I want to clear out with you folks. (I didn't know there would be takers for both).

Is it ok if we start discussing Deathless on December 4, and then Snow Crash on December 18? I expect Snow Crash will run on into January, since it's quite a big book. I hope that won't be a problem?

Yep!

That sounds like a reasonable arrangement to me!

Well, those that want to do both, can always start reading Deathless a bit earlier, of course. We'll then try to lay out the necessary threads for Deathless before the Snow Crash discussion starts, and leave them open for those who want to take a bit longer on the Deathless read, like we do with all of our discussions.

All good as far as I'm concerned!

Mid-December seems perfect to me :) I already have a copy too.

Oh goodie, we're starting to pick up steam! :))

Reading it now. It's...ahem... interesting, to say the least.

Nataliya wrote: "Reading it now. It's...ahem... interesting, to say the least."

Ah. So our timing is just-just out... but I hope you'll come and comment later on when we have our discussion going, Nataliya.

Stepehenson is one of the authors I've been wanting to read for a long time, but I just can't seem to get into any of his work. A group read will at least force me to finish this one.

A group read will at least force me to finish this one.

Ditto. I lemmed The Diamond Age and never picked it up, even though I'm supposed to read it.

Ah, are you supposed to read it for your research, Lit? Until when do you have time? This group (Mievillians) is focused mainly on speculative fiction, (and, well, SFF and New Weird, and its related genres like Steampunk and Cyberpunk etc, you could say), so The Diamond Age would fit squarely inside its confines.

If I had liked what I'd read of Neal Stephenson more, I'd offer to read it with you here, but you could always see if you can find buddies to do it with in the Neal Stephenson thread. https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

No, sorry. I just checked that thread and it doesn't seem as if anyone around here likes him too much. Oh well. I wish you'd said earlier, then we could have maybe gone for that rather. But aren't you doing your thesis on Cyberpunk? Then Snow Crash should be a good fit?

Yeah, SC will fit. My scope is that of comparing cyberpunk and feminist cyberpunk, slightly touching on postcyberpunk. Its a kind of evolution in that order. So I don't think DA would have really fitted in, but I would've have drawn certain conclusions from it. But I'll still go back to it. It was too bad, but I wasn't happy reading that I didn't really enjoy that particular week...

Hmm the GR blurb makes it sound so enticing:
The Diamond Age: Or, A Young Lady's Illustrated Primer is a postcyberpunk novel by Neal Stephenson. It is to some extent a science fiction coming-of-age story, focused on a young girl named Nell, and set in a future world in which nanotechnology affects all aspects of life. The novel deals with themes of education, social class, ethnicity, and the nature of artificial intelligence.

But then I read Cloud's review, who loved it because it was like Anathem? Hmmm..., I just couldn't get into Anathem.

..and then I read Lit Bug's review, which says: "Lemmed it. Not that it was so bad, but I couldn't go further.

The plot is excruciatingly slow, the characters flat. The world-building is adequate, even really good sometimes. But pages and pages of inconsequential descriptions of surroundings and routine gestures and detailed accounts of characters who die soon and have absolutely nothing to do with the plot so far.

And having read some of Anathem, somehow I seem to know exactly what she means.... :P

The Diamond Age is great if you want atmosphere, and (it seems) unlike Lit Bug I found the characterizations pretty good. The trouble with it, for me, was squarely in the realm of plot. The plot just wasn't all that good, I found.

I really enjoyed the concept of the Primer itself, however, and the ways in which the different copies of it had different results.

I wonder if my opinion on the book would change were I to read it again.

Traveller wrote: " I just checked that thread and it doesn't seem as if anyone around here likes him too much. "

Well, I've never actually looked at that thread, 'coz I considered Neal Stephenson the greatest thing to happen in literature until China Miéville. Though Snow Crash is the best. I certainly didn't find Diamond Age slow. If you want slow you have to get into the Cryptonomicon!

I've yet to read any of his fiction so this seemed like as good a place to start as any! [But if you switch, just let me know; I've got a few of his books I picked up at library sales!]

Derek (Guilty of thoughtcrime) wrote: "If you want slow you have to get into the Cryptonomicon!"

Tell me about it. I found The Confusion even worse than Cryptonomicon, though. At least Cryptonomicon dealt with computer technology and other nerdy stuff----the Confusion was largely about early modern economics, for god's sake. Ugh.

And I have to quote from Clouds' review of Anathem because I know he's also a friend of Traveller's: "Skimming other reviews I’ve seen that a lot of people got bogged down my the math-love, or found the characters hard to relate to, or straight-up found it dull. I’m flabbergasted at this! Normally I understand that some books just don’t gel with some people, but I refuse to bow down on this one – it’s not the book’s fault, the book is perfect – you people are broken in some deeply intrinsic way!"

To tell the truth, I wasn't as in love with Anathem as much as Clouds: I didn't consider it either perfect, or as good as Snow Crash (which is pretty much perfect!) but it's a very good book.

Well, unless CM releases a new novel soon, we basically still have Kraken and King Rat to do. I personally don't want to read Un-Lun-Dun, (tho nothing stops other members, to discuss the latter) but my point is that running out of CM gives us more time for all these other shiny books, so maybe we can keep Diamond Age on the horizon for in a few months time...

I'd prefer to stick with SC for now, especially since we've already committed to it. I'm hoping others like Derek and Nataliya will also participate, even if they would have read the novel by the time we discuss it. :)

I'm definitely in!

Sounds like fun!

Looks like our local Swedish library has a copy in English, so I am tentatively saying yes, although we will also be in the middle of Foucault's Pendulum...

Bah, I'm sorry for scheduling so many reads so close together, but I always forget about NaNoWriMo when making plans, and I thought that since these reads are on different groups... :P

But I'm glad to see that at least some of you can make it. Yaye for Allen coming in as well.

To make it up to you, why don't you choose a book for discussion for late January or for February, Ruth?

What is this tantalizing reference Foucault's Pendulum ... also, I realized this will be the first Valente and Stephenson novels I've read. Shocking I know.

Now back to Iron Council. Almost done, and got a few posts brewing!

Allen wrote: "What is this tantalizing reference Foucault's Pendulum ....."

https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/...

Sorry if you missed the initial reference to it, Allen, I thought all my friends knew. There is still time if you'd wanted to join-- but I'd rather you do Deathless here with us, ha ha.

Thanks for the offer, Traveller, but I wouldn't know where to begin. I'm using this group to find out about all the SciFi I missed out on over the last 20 years hiding on a politically unrecognized island. I've been enjoying what you'all have been choosing, so no worries. :)

Ruth wrote: "Thanks for the offer, Traveller, but I wouldn't know where to begin. I'm using this group to find out about all the SciFi I missed out on over the last 20 years hiding on a politically unrecognize..."

Glad to hear, Ruth! :)

In any case, I'll be reading DA again, and an added incentive is that I often pick up lemmed books only to find out that they were worth reading in the first place.

P.S. I loved the idea of the Primer - I'd really love to have that in real life.

Right now, I too would like to stick with SC.

Can I ask a stupid question? What's a lemmed book?

Joseph wrote: "Can I ask a stupid question? What's a lemmed book?"

Not stupid in the least, Joseph - it's my fault. The Sword and Laser group I'm part of was reading Stanislaw Lem and many members abandoned the book. So it became the new joke (and later a common word) to say "I'm lemming a book" when I leave it unread half-way (or any way) through.

Sorry, the word has stuck in my mind.

Haha, no problem! I'm still thinking about reading SOLARIS pretty soon though.

Joseph wrote: "Haha, no problem! I'm still thinking about reading SOLARIS pretty soon though."

I've never read Lem either, but I've lemmed some books!

Me too! Only I've usually said "I'm just taking a break," because my OCD won't allow me to permanently abandon them haha! Even recently, I've read some books where the final chapters or even pages made the rest of the book I'd previously thought uneven seem brilliant once the thread was complete.

True - we share that OCD :)

High-five!

Lit Bug wrote: "Joseph wrote: "Haha, no problem! I'm still thinking about reading SOLARIS pretty soon though."

I've never read Lem either, but I've lemmed some books!"

I think the only books I've lemmed are Lem books, ha-ha.

I'm afraid my ADD overrides my OCD, ha ha, so I frequently lem books. :D

Derek (Guilty of thoughtcrime) wrote: "Traveller wrote: " I just checked that thread and it doesn't seem as if anyone around here likes him too much. "

..."

Snow Crash! I wish I would have has a buddy group for that one. Undeniably brilliant.
How about American Gods by Neil Gaimon for your list under consideration

American Gods

Traveller wrote: "Well, unless CM releases a new novel soon, we basically still have Kraken and King Rat to do. I personally don't want to read Un-Lun-Dun, (tho nothing stops other members, to discuss the latter) ..."
so whats the deal with you and Un lun don?
its rather fun,actually

Okay, Mags, since you and Nataliya like Un Lun Dun, we could still schedule it for some time next year.

Sure, we could put American Gods on-- it's a bit big and thick for me though. I wonder if I can get one of the other mods or another member to lead that one for us. We can always post an ad. XD

But since you liked Snow Crash, you must come and peep in on the discussions.

First up though, is Deathless, which I've already sorta started on, and I must say the weirdness does a CM group discussion credit.

It makes me think a bit of Bulgakov's The Master and Margarita

I've had American Gods on my list for some time, so that's a second from me. I'd chime in on Kraken, too. It was just weird for weirdness sake ...

So shall we make a date for Kraken in sometime around February? Does that sound reasonable?

We can do American Gods sometime in 2014 then when it suits people. July, perhaps?

So January 4th for 'Snow Crash' then? I finished it and still am not quite sure what I think about it. I need the discussion :)

Oops, sorry Nataliya! ...but since you're working night shift, maybe in a way January is actually better?

I haven't even started on it yet. Will do so ASAP!

Thanks for prompting me to post an announcement in this thread as well, Nataliya.

We regret to inform that due to unforeseen circumstances our Snow Crash discussion has been moved on to January 4, 1914. Moved it up earlier by a day especially for you, Nataliya! :D

I'm in!

I'm in too! Just got so behind this months with grading final papers and my son deciding to be born 4 weeks early! I'm also going to post in the Deathless thread once I finally get caught up there too!!

Cool, Annie! We haven't seen you for a while, so that will be nice!

Joseph, I think we all fell behind. I realize now it was pure hubris on my side to think that I could do the discussion with Deathless and Foucault's Pendulum and Snow Crash all in one month. I guess I had forgotten that book discussions can be fairly time-consuming, and are best done while you are reading the book. (I finished Deathless before the discussion started, because I was afraid the FP discussion would make me fall behind).

These discussions are a time-balancing trick no matter how you approach them, which is why I prefer to leave the threads open for discussion indefinitely, because having a bunch of people co-ordinate their reading exactly, just isn't realistic.

Oh, and congratulations on the birth of your son, Joseph! Since he came rather early, I hope he's okay? My son also came a few weeks early, and he was very thin and small, but he's caught it all up. :)