SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

What did you think? I loved that the aliens were never seen. There was no sense of dread or fear just curiosity and the need to explore or learn. What could be a boring book to a lot of people I found fascinating.

It is one of the great sensawunda books. An ideal book to display the great strengths of hard SF -- the joy of science, the thrill of exploration, the old 'going where no man has gone before' feeling.

Silvio wrote: "I wonder, now, if different people interpret the unknowability differently. "

Now that we can use spoilers....

I honestly saw the ship both ways. Initially I felt it was neutral. But when they got in and it was seemingly designed to bring something back I had a twinge of the unknown hit me and I wondered. As they continued to look at the ship and it was clear that it had both intelligence and seemed to not notice or care about them I got worried. The unknown went from maybe an opportunity to learn something (I expected a Jack McDevitt style quest for some object or knowledge) to something I considered scary.

I would /not/ have remained on the ship with all of those robots running around. No.

Kim wrote: "What did you think? I loved that the aliens were never seen. There was no sense of dread or fear just curiosity and the need to explore or learn. What could be a boring book to a lot of people I fo..."

Brenda wrote: "It is one of the great sensawunda books. An ideal book to display the great strengths of hard SF -- the joy of science, the thrill of exploration, the old 'going where no man has gone before' feeling."

I would love to hear from someone who did not like the book. I bet they would cite the nature of hard SF as the reason ("too much boring science", "nothing happened! they just got on the ship, poked around, and left!"). Its a different type of story.

Oh goody, the spoilers thread. I wish I could remember my first reading in enough detail to dissect my reactions the way Dennis did. And Brenda, what you said summarizes the feeling I get from this book perfectly.

I guess what I'd add is that the sense of powerlessness - not necessarily in a bad way, not necessarily in a good way either - that I got. The people get to explore Rama and see what it looks like all they want, but they don't get to control or manipulate it. Rama does stuff, and sometimes what you do provokes it to do stuff. But there's no way to know whether you'll like what Rama does, or whether Rama even notices whether you'll like it.

Yes, what you have here is what writers are advised not to do: the passive protagonist. The explorers of RAMA never really do get a grip on what is going on, but they have a fine time doing it and hardly anybody notices.

Very good book, I mean. Very different and weird - but interesting. (After the first 50 pages, when I was SOOO bored, I wished to finish reading of this book and I continued only because the our club. I was later very glad that I do it. :o))
I am so curious to continuation in the other books of series! I wish to read them.

Read this years ago, and I think I may have to re-read it now. I remember being fascinated with all they found in Rama. Can't remember enough specific details now, so I'll have to revisit it.

It's definitely kind of a tour guide of a book. I figure Clarke went at this one with a sort of "what if" attitude, not from any stellar or earth-shattering story standpoint.

I loved it. Very refreshing after reading so many scifi books where the aliens come to Earth and immediately make their (usually evil) human-centric intentions clear. I interpret Rama as being completely indifferent to humanity, using our solar system as nothing more than a pit stop, without any foreknowledge or interest that we're here. There probably wasn't any life here when it was launched. It's the complete antithesis to a group of hateful exterminators (hate sometimes being considered the strongest of emotions, after all) and probably a lot more likely to happen.

The final line was a genius hook, but I think I'll be leaving it here. I can only assume the sequels involve another Rama or two actually engaging with humans, and that would spoil the effect for me.

There is a considerable split in the opinions about the sequels -- you can look at the Goodreads reviews. Some people adore them and lots of people think they are nowhere near good as the first book.

Like I already mentioned on the no-spoilers thread, I'm very far on the "dislike" side of the opinion split about the sequels. And as was also mentioned on that thread, Clarke claimed not to have intended, originally, to write a series. I'm still not totally sure I believe him. How can you write that last paragraph and not intend sequels?

The moral "humans aren't the center of the universe" is one that could do with being used more often. I feel there's a shared theme with Childhood's End there, expressed differently of course. The passive protagonist approach helps, I think. Rama isn't aimed at us, and it can't be appropriated by us either.

Kim wrote: "What did you think? I loved that the aliens were never seen. There was no sense of dread or fear just curiosity and the need to explore or learn. What could be a boring book to a lot of people I fo..."

I found it fascinating that Clark sets up the scariest part of the plot - and nothing happens. As the explorers descend into the ship, you feel as it something is going to happen. The fact that it never does is not only interesting but I cannot think of another story where nothing happening makes it interesting. For me, it made the point that people are small in the universe and we're not always the center of attention we think we are....

Tom wrote: "I found it fascinating that Clark sets up the scariest part of the plot - and nothing happens.."

Yes, in fact when the ship started to "turn on" I suspected Clarke was going to have it transport the humans who wanted to join it (kind of like the religious folks, can't remember their name). Then when it started "turning off" I realized it didn't care about the human visitors at all. I was also making a human centric presumption.

As Rama moved on and left humans behind the vastness of time and space was dramatic . I love Clarke, very philosophical writer (for me).

Brenda wrote: "Yes, what you have here is what writers are advised not to do: the passive protagonist. The explorers of RAMA never really do get a grip on what is going on, but they have a fine time doing it and ..."

Brenda, so so right. I would say that Clarke pulls this off in Rama and in the 2000 series of books. I'll never forget the wonder when I read those. Truly marvelous the way he does it. I think McDevitt is heavily inspired by Clarke and maybe that's why I like his books too.

Fascinating point, Tom. I can't remember if I had the same expectation that something was going to happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's what Clarke was trying for.

Dennis wrote: "Brenda wrote: "Yes, what you have here is what writers are advised not to do: the passive protagonist. The explorers of RAMA never really do get a grip on what is going on, but they have a fine tim..."

where would you recommend starting with McDevitt?

I really got into this book and partly because Clarke pulled everything off in a way that is so damn believable. Any other book, I would have been seriously hacked off that no alien ever showed up. But this book, I felt a little let down when the guy regained consciousness to come face to face with the crab alien. I was into the fact that this race was nowhere to be found and relieved when they figured out the crab was actually a robot. I thought there was just enough suspense when Rama fired up some of its systems to keep things going at a steady and interesting pace.

I don't think I ever thought very hard about what difference it makes that we never meet the aliens. Maybe it helps the anti-anthropocentrism - the aliens care so little about us that they didn't even come meet us in person?

Like someone earlier said, I don't think they planned to meet us at all. Just used the sun like a gas station before moving on.

John wrote: "Like someone earlier said, I don't think they planned to meet us at all. Just used the sun like a gas station before moving on."

In an empty ship. Very strange.

A good mcdevitt book to start is Deepsix (Pickle asked earlier). Its an action book about a planet with remains of a civilization on it that is on a collision course with a rogue gas giant. 8)

this is just

a little space

to prepare for

the

upcoming
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Buddy read
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(Starting September 27)

Thank you!

Thank you, Allison! Feels like mom coming to clear space for you and your friends to play at :)

And mom even made the cake:)

I just started it and (view spoiler)[ I literally jolted physically when the date September 11th appeared on the first page. Eerie. (hide spoiler)]

Hey, nice! already forgot there was a thread for this. Am at the beginning of chapter 11 and hoo boy! (view spoiler)[There will be discussions about the very first sentence of it.

How exactly does Cmdr Norton (or - goodness hope not - Clark themself?) imagine these individuals would be dressed in space for his worries to warrant for anything? (hide spoiler)]

@anthony - gosh, completely went past me! Fateful date.

Also there was this giggle from chapter 10: (view spoiler)[the idea of astronauts finding it undignified to slide down a handrail? I think we've unveiled space princesses bigger than Elma York.

The expositional stuff at the beginning had me bit worried if that was to be tone throughout, but now that there's a crew of personalities to follow, I am pleasantly surprised how much I'm enjoying this exploration. (hide spoiler)]

Chapters 16-18: (view spoiler)["What would Captain Cook do?"

Ugh, sleeping to a background music sounds appalling, and I find it highly unlikely there wouldn't be conflicts among any crew about this. Why not just simple white noise: wind, waves, rain, general 'cabin hum'...?

The exploration of the architecture and the ladder structures reminded me of such precautions on our Earthly sea vessels: 'handrails' along long corridors, which are clearly designed to double as access ladders, in case the vessel was to tip over. Always found those somewhat ominous - important as they are. (hide spoiler)]

That's it for tonight, I guess.

Just found this guys. Sorry for being late to the party.

Anthony wrote: "I just started it and [spoilers removed]"

Same! All my hair stood up!

Yes, it’s a bit frightening!

I'm through chapter 8
(view spoiler)[ So far I thoroughly enjoy the "old" feeling of this novel. The science and the first encounter is relatable to nowadays technology. I like the comparison to archeaeological findings. Especially the end of this chapter gave me a warm feeling. Exploration is the heart of it all. (hide spoiler)]

I too just finished chapter 8. I’m relieved to read something that’s written in a concise, clear, assured voice. I’m intrigued by the mysteries that have been introduced and am eager to read on tomorrow after a good night’s sleep.

Anthony wrote: "I too just finished chapter 8. I’m relieved to read something that’s written in a concise, clear, assured voice..."

WoT did get you, didn't it. ^^'

I'm happy to read somehing from the hard SF end for a change.

Up to chapter 13
(view spoiler)[ LOL! "Heigh-ho.." Love it!
The introduction of a newly created race of slaves in the former chapters was interesting. Let's see if the simps will play a role in the further story (hide spoiler)]

Gabi wrote: "I'm through chapter 8
[spoilers removed]"

Nods in agreement. Also enjoyed the introduction to (view spoiler)[our commander and their family dynamics (hide spoiler)].

Chapter 22-23: (view spoiler)[Hee. Seafaring in space (well, technically, isn't all?).

That silence - now several times mentioned - is starting to make the uneasiness of it apparent indeed. Are there echoes even? Surely their own actions must make some sound or does sound simply not travel there? (Other than inside their suits, for them to be able to hear each other's communications?). Nothing but one's own blood? Hearing one's mates among that must also be highly dissorienting. But wouldn't the rustle of the suit also sound inside itself?

...eah. Better not get stuck on this. Yes, silence well registered.

As is the scope of things (which I thought I had mentioned before, but apparently not): how vast everything is inside there seems fascinating.

I'm also liking how they named the locations with Earthly names: travelling to Paris and New York. There's something relatable there, that I suspect completely 'foreign' location names wouldn't have induced. It's also rather whimsical.

And of course, enjoying every bit about the crew personalities in between the exploration. (hide spoiler)]

Okay that’s it, I’m in. Found it on iBooks for $4.53 which is less than half of what the Kindle version costs.

Okay... I had to race through it. I really liked this old fashioned SF.
If it wasn't for this BR (and the fact, that I could lend the book via kindle) I would have never picked up another Clarke, cause I'm one of those folks who couldn't get into 2001.
But I really liked Rama.

I finished chapter eight and not sure if I like the style or not. So far it’s interesting:)

Wen wrote: "I finished chapter eight and not sure if I like the style or not. So far it’s interesting:)"

Around chapter eight was - for me at least -, where the story only just started to show any signs of 'interestingness' (c'mon, word?). It's all quite lacking in 'soul' still, but not bad.

Chapter 24:
(view spoiler)[The crew just seems to be expanding as new persons get introduced. How many were they there again?

But pray tell me, young Jimmy, what is "sports and sex combined"? *hah* And how lazy is this characterization of yours to appease the young male audience? (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 25-28: future?
(view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)]

Jemppu wrote: "Around chapter eight was - for me at least -, where the story only just started to show any..."

I guess I am very objective about the title? Somehow I feel Rendezvous with Rama sounds like a date and PINK.(Stop it! It's like a weird impression now.)

Finished
(view spoiler)[Well, that was an adventurous tour, but presented with such emotional detachment, it hardly left a very lasting impression.

Was really looking forward for some exploration on the relationships between the crew members too, or expressions of their personal feelings.

Perhaps one could imagine they were being professional, if looking for justification, but really it just felt lacking of emotional insight, especially for such fantastical settings.

Concept of that 'vast silence' was then probably the topmost takeaway from this. That was beautiful. (hide spoiler)]

I read RENDEZVOUS WITH RAMA decades ago and it actually turned me off A.C. Clark for good. Someone wrote that Clark was not a very sociable man and had a rather negative view of human relations since going to live as a near recluse in Sri Lanka. This may partially explain the coldness of his writing style, which I encountered in other books by him. That coldness was what turned me off Clark, as I like characters who sound and look alive to the readers.