Debate discussion

Its not like that...the belief is that every single person has a soul, twin or not.

The difference between the two identicle twins souls is that the twins are, in fact, different! Have you met two twins like that before? I have. They were both entirely different, which means that their souls are different.

Twins are generally very different because of the way they act. Of course, they can be very close-knit, or very anti-each other (I've met both extremes) but a good majority of them are friends but are different. The pair that I was friends with for years had a rebellious and jokester twin and the other was a meek and humble and quiet twin. Most of my friend-twins were different.

apparently the undead don't have souls

*vampires
*mummies
*etc,

Koe wrote: "Look your missing the point. I'm not trying to say anything about twins here.

Two identical people 1 with a soul 1 without how are they diffrent? Or the same person before and after soul removal..."

Okay, now I really am confused. I'm trying to understand, I swear! :)

Do you mean to say that one twin has a soul and one does not?

i think she is trying to say (i don't like doing this)

there are two people standing side by side one has a soul and one had their's sucked out from them -so they no longer have a soul- What specifically is the soul providing to the one person the other lacks? What is so good about a soul and what exactly does it do?

AH. Okay, I get it now :)
So you're asking the object of a soul ^^
I will type up a response right now!

:) glad to help

i always feel self conscious trying to explain what other people are trying to say because i might be wrong and cause a buttload of turmoil :)

Spirit beings are souls; the two are synonymous. The spirits in the pre-existence were souls. After the spirit leaves the body to wait the day of the resurrection, it is still designated as a soul.

It is basic belief (whether just in my religion or in others) that our souls give us the personalities we have. You know how when a baby is born and instantly you can see characteristics of their personality that you later on recognize? We believe that you are born with your personality and it is only enhanced from then on with nurture and care. Souls, or spirits, are who we are as people, naturally.

So if two people were standing next to each other, one having a soul and the other not, one would have personality and drive and emotion and the other would not. It would perhaps be as if the other were dead.

Make sense?

:) (koe glad to help)


just to make a comparison why don't vampires have souls (not twilight vampires :p -the traditional dracula stuff)

The theory about vampires not having souls (do we really believe in vampires? xD I have done my research, though) is because once they are turned into a vampire, a literal killing machine, they are damned to hell. Because they are meant to kill for all of eternity and usually do that end up going to hell. Among that, another theory is that they are possessed or inserted with a demonic force that helps with their strength and speed, etcetera, which would help damn them.

-wow good point (never thought of that before)

or that one principal that had a tumor in her brain and that was how she got pregnant by a 12 year old boy

"Why do things like brain damage and lighting strikes change people's personalities?"

Now, is what changed really the personality or the bodily function and helps show and provide the functions of ths soul. If the brain is damaged of course the personality will be shown differently. I know a young girl with brain damage and the way she shows her reactions is different than it used to be. I think it's more of a brain/body thing than a personality thing. Personalities of course can seem to be changed, in my opinion.

Say that there's one personality. In one scenario she's born into a wonderful, caring, nurturing family who tends to her needs as best they can. She grows up in a good environment, which means that she's going to have a better seeming personality because that's how her brain was almost programmed, in a sense, because her brain registered the love and caring actions around her.

Now, take that same soul and put it into an abusive family. She's abused, her parents are drunks and drug addicts, her siblings are never around, that sort of thing. Her brain registers the hate within her family and her body shows it. Souls, in my opinion, don't change, just the way the body enterprets and shows things does, along with the brain.

My mom grew up in an abusive family, for instance. Her father was an abusive drunk and druggie but she didn't ultimately let it affect her. She's still a kind, caring, loving woman and even though her brain still registers the pain and anger and sadness she went through as a child, she made it a point not to let it change who she was.

I think it's more of a brain thing than a soul thing when someone's personality "changes."

I hope that explanation made sense?

No, it doesn't. If your personality is a part of your soul, then how can ANY outside forces, physical forces, change something non-physical?

Lauren wrote: "No, it doesn't. If your personality is a part of your soul, then how can ANY outside forces, physical forces, change something non-physical? "

Your body is what holds your soul. That's how you are who you are. Brain functions of course will be allowed and if there's brain damage than there's damage to how the personality is shown. I'm not saying that soul CHANGES (and if you'd read my post thoroughly you might've understood that), I'm just saying that the way the body reacts to things when there's brain or nerve-damage, for example, changes, which makes it appear that the soul/personality changed but it doesn't mean that it did.

Then, if the body damage affects it, then the personality is a result of the brain, not the soul. Therefore souls are not needed, therefore we should not assume they exist.

The soul inhabits the body. Of course, brain function works, our digestive system works, how we move works, so why wouldn't brain damage affect how we project our personalities?

Then the soul is actually just a part of the brain, therefore physical. therefore just a bunch of neurons.

No, the soul is not physical, it is an idea. It is what determines whether we go to heaven or hell.

The soul is not part of the brain. It is a "spirit". As I said, the two are synonymous. Therefore, it is not physical, therefore it can exist and is not just a bunch of neurons.

Then it has no function. Therefore, why assume it exists? It's an extraordinary claim ,where is the extraordinary proof.

Why doesn't it have a function?
Please, elaborate for me.

Lauren wrote: "Then it has no function. Therefore, why assume it exists? It's an extraordinary claim ,where is the extraordinary proof. "

If you don't believe in the bible or god or souls, so what? You don't have to. It is there for some people, but you clearly aren't one of them. So don't challenge us and believe what you want while we believe our beliefs.

Well, we established that because brain damage changed personality, then the personality is part of the brain. Not the soul.

What is left for the soul to do?

Lauren wrote: "Well, we established that because brain damage changed personality, then the personality is part of the brain. Not the soul.

What is left for the soul to do? "

No, you established that YOU believed that.
I still believe there's a soul and that personality is caused by that soul. What I said was that brain damage would change how the personality is shown.

if we all just gave up and believed what we wanted to that wouldn't be much fun

Liz wrote: "if we all just gave up and believed what we wanted to that wouldn't be much fun"

But that's probably going to be the end result because we all have strong opinions and wills and already have our minds set xD People can rarely change my mind, I don't think anyone's EVER changed Lauren's mind, it's obvious that Davis will never change his mind... Minus that rare occassion where someone is undecided, there's no way to change an opinion.

since i joined goodreads i have changed my mind loads of times

* i used to be 100% catholic
* and i have a more firm and detailed list of everything i believe in

debating has changed me (or the good and the bad :P)

and much more

i don't have time to post them all

It's good. Questioning what everyone told you is good.

it just that everyone thinks that no good comes of this but it does
people better know themselves because they question it

they either fold to the other person or are more firm in what they believe

Lauren wrote: "It's good. Questioning what everyone told you is good. "

And I've done that, but still firmly believe what I chose to believe when I studied everything.

The reason I'm not changing my opinion is because I have before. I studied politics and religions and evolution and ended up a democratic near-atheist. Then when I looked over everything, and studied more, I found that libertarianism and Mormonism best fit what I believed and felt right for my country and my own life.

Liz wrote: "since i joined goodreads i have changed my mind loads of times

* i used to be 100% catholic
* and i have a more firm and detailed list of everything i believe in

debating has changed me (or the ..."

omigosh your name is liz and you are catholic too!

weird... do you happen to live in washington state?

Well, most (i think) people believe that all living things have a soal, whether good or bad.Your body is just a shell that holds a soul. When you die, your soal moves on to... somewhere.

Here are profsinal definations: http://dictionary.reference.com/brows...

(sorry if already said)

i don't think most people believe that

Liz wrote: "weird... do you happen to live in washington state? "

No...

good because that would have been creepy :P

This is cool.

I think someone without a soul just wouldn't be alive. I think the soul is what keeps someone "alive" in a sense. So when they die, their soul leaves regardless of whether or not they're still on life support.

"I think the soul is what keeps someone "alive" in a sense."

If a soul is what keeps you alive, then why do those with damage to their bodies die? Wouldn't you have to damage the soul in order to kill it and die?

Well if the body is damaged and it dies, the soul has no where to go so it leaves. (i'm not sure about this)

That's interesting.

Ya I would think that it works both ways; kill the body, soul dies (hence leaves),and soul leaves, body dies.

Theoretically, someone could come back to life then, if all they need to live is a soul?

If a soul is what keeps you alive and makes you you, then why does brain trauma change people's personalities?

I don't know.

Could you give me a link about that because I only heard vaguely about it?

How does it change their personalities? Like a total personality change- they don't remember who they are - do they acquire the personality of someone else or liek a "fresh" baby personality?

Link about what, precisely?

Not remembering who they are is called amnesia/ Head injuries can change personality in ways like increased aggression, depression, change their temper. Possible, though it's not common.

Nathan wrote: "That's funny you bring that up. I was just thinking about this guy who had TBI that damaged a part of his brain where he felt emotions. He felt no emotions. It tore his family apart. He had a w..."

Exactly. Our personalities are created by our brain. Each lobe holds a different stake on who we are and how we behave thus eliminating the theory that without a soul we have no personality, thus eliminating the theory of a soul at all.

Jayda,

It seems like you're simultaneously attributing personality to brain chemistry and to souls. You begin by asserting that souls provide our personalities; when someone points out that brain damage (not soul damage) can alter a personality, you respond by saying that of course that will happen, since everyone knows brains affect personalities; when someone then points out that this implies that our brains, and not our supposed souls, are responsible for our personalities, you assert that, no, souls are still necessary, for some reason.

So which is it? Brains are clearly necessary for personalities. There is a mountain of evidence for this. Souls, well, don't seem to exist at all; there's no evidence for them at anywhere, other than presupposition. How do you know that the brain is simply a conduit, and not the source, for personality?

Let's say someone is born with a "bad" or "flawed" personality; let's say they are schizophrenic. Let's then say that through medical treatment, they're able to adjust their brain chemistry and correct these problems. Does this mean that the person was born with a naturally "bad" soul and then the medication damaged the way the brain expressed this personality so that it expressed a seemingly "good" personality?

I think brains are for persoanlities, thought process, the act of living, etc. Souls are our emotion and goodness.


You don't need a soul to be alive, but I believe all humans have them.

Then again, I think the idea of a soul is a little different to everyone.

Emotions are chemical functions, which is why we can give someone a needle and change their mood.

haha

This is all just speculation, isn't it? Personally, I refuse to take the idea of a soul/spirit seriously until there is some evidence suggesting that humans (and all animals, for that matter) are more than mind and body.

Hmm...but thats what almost all religion stems from -- faith. Believing in souls is having faith in something that might seem incorrect and might remain unexplained for decades.