Clean,Non Religious-Reads discussion

"Opposites-attract"-This is probably my most favorite plot device for my romance reads.I believe that is a huge part of why I am such a total fan of cowboy/city-or working girl romances,that and the fact that an athletically built guy in jeans or western dress slacks and cowboy boots and cowboy hat is just total eye-candy for me,lol!

I also so very much enjoy when the H/H share quite a bit of verbal sparring in the beginning,so much more than 'love at first sight',though I can believe and accept 'lust at first sight'.

So which plots are your favs?

I love the opposites attract plot too, Christine! I think it makes the reader reach deeper inside, beyond appearances and background and appreciate the inner qualities more.

I love those as well! I am not keen on love at first sight stories, particularly when they marry shortly after or whatever! Romeo and Juliet - meet, marry, die IN FOUR DAYS!

Dorcas wrote: "I love the opposites attract plot too, Christine! I think it makes the reader reach deeper inside, beyond appearances and background and appreciate the inner qualities more."

So well put Dorcas! Your points also mean that such a plot requires more from the author,and that is another reason that such books are generally more satisfying/fulfilling than the love at first sight plot,IMO.

Soph wrote: "I love those as well! I am not keen on love at first sight stories, particularly when they marry shortly after or whatever! Romeo and Juliet - meet, marry, die IN FOUR DAYS!"

I'm with you Soph! :]

Exactly, Christine! Real love takes work and the resolving of differences that inevitably come up so I like it when an author can take us through that in a satisfying way. Definitely more work for the author but I think even they would derive more satisfaction from it in the end, don't you?

Soph, I can agree somewhat with the love at first sight thing..not very probable. R &J is a good example of that. But while LOVE at first sight may be rare I don't mind it when the H/H feel a CONNECTION at first sight. Sometimes we're attracted to someone (and I don't mean neccesarily physically) straight away without really knowing them. And I think that's an interesting plot line to develop further...

Oh I agree! Having a feeling or getting on with someone straight away - that is really fair enough! But like plots where the H/H meet and then like announce they will marry tomorrow... Yeah, don't enjoy those as much.

I do like reading ones where they feel connection straight away and then this grows to more :)

Favourite is hate to love though, with lots of verbal sparring! This plot line is so intrinsically linked to Elizabeth Bennet and Mr Darcy - almost like that was the founder of such a romantic storyline.

What an entertaining discussion!

I too like opposites attract, with an initial spark/interest in the other.
(BTW, ever heard that line before marriage opposites attract, and after marriage opposites attack?)

But my favorite plot runs as follows:
Snobby high and mighty guy falls for heroine, and then she flips his heels right over his head.
Hey,this is basically Mr. Darcy and Elizabeth.
One minute, writing this out, I just realized this happened to me in real life -- literally (okay, I was only eight, so forgive me for flipping the boy over by the heel).
Sometimes, when I reread Pride & Prejudice, a little part of me wishes Elizabeth didn't fall for Mr. Darcy -- or at least let him wallow in his heartache longer. Sigh, I love strong heroines.

Soph, Have you read any of Carolyn Brown's historical fiction? (I think I added some to the bookshelf). I think you would like her stories. There is always a lot of verbal sparring between the H/H, definitely hate turns to love. Sometimes I think she takes it too far but generally I think its great.Try " Sweet Tilly Or From Wine to Water to start with. You'll get a good taste for her writing..

Oh yes,I just love both scenerios,either attraction or dislike.I love how authors turn them into wonderful love stories!!!And yes, Dorcas, I can imagine a writer being very pleased after they develop a great story.

I have to tell you ladies two other things that I dearly love in a romance story,is when our hero is totally flustered by the heroine,or how he seems able to read her like a book.I have been totally enchanted by both types of heroes,[swoooooon!].One I read was so funny because the poor Colorado cowboy hero was so tickled by how the Italian heroine gestured wildly with her hands when she was excited or upset.Of course he had never seen such a thing let alone heard anyone rant in Italian,or eaten such fabulous cooking,lol!

I will have to check out Carolyn Brown's work. I just hope she doesn't go too overboard with the verbal sparring,because I have read a few that turned me against the heroine so that I wanted the hero to kick her to the curb and take another character that I liked much better!Actually, I wish sometimes an author would write a story like that.Where an underserving not good enough for our hero/heroine gets dumped for a much better secondary character that we have come to love. Have you all ever read a story where you wished that?

Loren wrote: "What an entertaining discussion!

I too like opposites attract, with an initial spark/interest in the other.
(BTW, ever heard that line before marriage opposites attract, and after marriage oppos..."

No,Loren,I never heard that saying,but it makes sense that it could often happen that way,if there isn't enough in common.

I also love strong heroines,really can't stand airheads that are TSTL.

Dorcas wrote: "Soph, Have you read any of Carolyn Brown's historical fiction? (I think I added some to the bookshelf). I think you would like her stories. There is always a lot of verbal sparring between the H/H,..."

Oh thanks I haven't come across her but am always looking for new authors to try! I will got and check those out now :) thank you!

Loren wrote: "What an entertaining discussion!

I too like opposites attract, with an initial spark/interest in the other.
(BTW, ever heard that line before marriage opposites attract, and after marriage oppos..."

Nope have not heard of that saying...
I agree with you - this plot line is basically the Darcy/Lizzy story and it has become very popular and one many authors turn to. It's got a lot of potentional for great writing and good development, as some have already said.

Another plot line I love is tough guy falls for good girl (who influences him).
All that comes to mind right now is Spark's "A Walk to Remember", and Gaskell's "North and South".

When I was a preteen/teen I was lured by stories of star crossed lovers that made me cry. I didn't like it, but I had to read it. Sometimes that old urge revisits me.

I love North and South - but to me, the plot line of North and South is very much like the plot line of Pride and Prejudice. They both have pride for their end of the country and prejudice against the others! She doesn't like Thornton and rejects him first... Etc Quite similar :)

Yes that is another good plot device.

I also like the wounded trust issue,as long as it is not carried too far!

Such as the reader can see how perfect the suitor is for the wounded party,but the wounded one is too messed up to let go of the past and trust again.

I have seen people like this in real life and they are not worth getting involved with because they make the other person 'constantly' prove their love! hey, that just gave me the idea for another thread 'plot devices we hate',lol!

Soph wrote: "I love North and South - but to me, the plot line of North and South is very much like the plot line of Pride and Prejudice. They both have pride for their end of the country and prejudice against ..."

Good point! But I was thinking more of the influence theme , i.e., good girl influences tough guy. Darcy was snobby, but to me, Thornton seemed darker -- and Margaret's influence on him was more dramatic than Elizabeth's on Darcy.

I'm not sure who I think had more influence. Margaret definitely has influence, as does Thornton on her, regarding the ways of the north to the south and with the better way to get on with workers etc. but he was always a good master (tough yes) and a good man at heart.

Elizabeth has influence on Darcy obviously after such hard words when rejected and this influences Darcy to change and think on his actions/behaviour. Darcy also influences her regarding things like first impressions. But again Darcy always had a good heart, if he was proud in some of his actions.

I like plots where the H/H are already equals. I get a little tired of reading Cinderella stories because they tend to make me feel like the Heroine is in love with the glamorous life she's going to lead more than the man she's going to live it with.

Now, having them be from different social circles is one thing, but if the Heroine is constantly feeling like she's not good enough and questioning the Hero's motives, I'll end up questioning his motives as well. They need to find equal footing somewhere. Maybe they are intellectual equals, or creative equals. I think it's important for both characters to know that they can and will contribute to the relationship.

Good point Annette!

I second what Dorcas said!!

Fun discussion! I really like opposites attract, too, because it's a set-up for so much drama. I also like rekindled love stories, but ones where the hero or heroine has a changed a lot and they have to get used to the new person each of them has become. Old history makes for a lot of good tension.

Hi Kate! Welcome! I like the opposites attract, too. And the rekindled ones are great too, almost like second chances at life/love.

Kate wrote: "Fun discussion! I really like opposites attract, too, because it's a set-up for so much drama. I also like rekindled love stories, but ones where the hero or heroine has a changed a lot and they ha..."

Reunion stories are great plots,if they are not a case of large age difference,where he always thought of her as a kid.I have read a few good ones like that but I generally try to avoid romances where the guy is over 5 years difference in age that her.Just something I don't care for,in my romances.

Have to admit that 'rekindled sparks' have a lot going for them,heh-heh!

I love the best friend that turns into the one. I've lost track of how many times I've seen When Harry Met Sally. Marriage of convenience stories can be fun, and love triangles (I know it's a bit of a cliche but I've loved a lot of the older romances where the heroine thinks the other woman is a real threat, but it's actually the other woman just trying to make it seem that way.

I tend to like those stories where the characters don't know each other beforehand. I enjoy the journey of love where initial impressions may not always be favorable, but over time, the two characters come to care for each other. Kind of like Pride and Prejudice with Elizabeth and Darcy. Each of them had to rethink their initial opinion of the other. In doing so, they found they had more in common than they thought.

I love arranged, accidental or forced marriage story's. I used to imagine when I was a teen having my husband picked for me by my parents.....scary.

Melissa wrote: "I love arranged, accidental or forced marriage story's. I used to imagine when I was a teen having my husband picked for me by my parents.....scary."

Isn't that why honeymoons evolved? Something about appeasing the bride that was forced into marriage?

Maybe I have never heard of that:}

Melissa wrote: "I love arranged, accidental or forced marriage story's. I used to imagine when I was a teen having my husband picked for me by my parents.....scary."

I am a sucker for those types of stories as well. There's a certain excitement in reading about a woman being forced to marry a stranger, especially if he seems gruff and unbending on the outside, but turns out to be someone who loves deeply.

Loren wrote: "Isn't that why honeymoons evolved? Something about appeasing the bride that was forced into marriage?"

I hadn't ever heard that,I'm curious why anyone would think that a honeymoon would 'appease' a bride? Seems like the last thing she would want is to be forced to spend time alone with this stranger,lol!

However, I do love mail-order bride/husband or marriage of convenience stories.My introduction to'clean' romance was the film 'Love Comes Softly' by Michael Landon based on[but much more fun]the book by Janette Oke.

I saw that it was based on a book which I then borrowed from my library,and was then hooked on clean romance!I had read a few of the trashy romances before, but found them totally ridiculous/laughable and/or vulgar.

I'm a sucker for Cinderella/makeover stories and marriage of convenience stories. I know they're pretty cliché but they just push the right buttons for me.

My other favorite romantic plotlines are where there's a smart, capable guy masquerading as a fop or shallow person (think Scarlet Pimpernel or Crown Duel), and stories where the girl is blowing off the guy because of some past misdeeds or problems and he has to really chase her and work to earn her love. "Smart Move" by Melanie Jacobson is a good recent example of that type of plot.

Thank you for the mention of "Smart Move" by Melanie Jacobson .It sounds really cute and so does her "Not My Type, A Single Girl's Guide to Doing it All Wrong" which I saw when I went to Amazon to check out your suggestion.

Christine, those are two of my favorites of Melanie Jacobson's. I was dubious when I first started reading Not My Type because the heroine is kind of wallowing in self-pity for the first 2 or 3 chapters due to a prior break-up, but she gets over it pretty quickly. So don't give up on it. :) BTW I mentioned this in another group's discussion, but Jacobson's books, although set in an LDS culture, are not religious or proselytizing. They meet your group guidelines.

Thanks for mentioning the heroine's change and the author's LDS tie.

I have read several by LDS authors including Carla Kelly,and Marcia Lynn McClure that do not prosytize,so I do understand that some LDS authors don't seem to be as bad for that. :]

Carla Kelly has written a few books recently that I would put in the religious category (Borrowed Light and Enduring Light for certain; My Loving Vigil Keeping is a little more toward the culturally religious setting, and I think non-LDS readers would like that one). She also still writes completely secular books. I'd look at who her publisher is on her recent books. If it's Bonneville Books/Cedar Fort, those are where her LDS books are published so you're taking your chances. :)

Yes when I praised "Mrs. Drew Plays Her Hand" in my Amazon review for being clean yet free of all the god-talk of Christian Romance, she said that was because she was writing for Signet Publishing then,and she said her books by them and Cedar Fort should suit me,but said her newer ones by Harlequin are racier!

Christine wrote: "I hadn't ever heard that,I'm curious why anyone would think that a honeymoon would 'appease' a bride? Seems like the last thing she would want is to be forced to spend time alone with this stranger,lol!"

For the fun of it, I looked it up. According to one site, the custom of honeymoons seems to have evolved from the practice of Northern Europeans who abducted brides from neighboring villages and then would have to go into hiding until the bride's family gave up the search for her.
I've heard different variations of the origins, but they are similar.
Something to think about when you're honeymooning in Bora Bora.
For all the pessimists say, we've come along way.

Tadiana wrote: "My other favorite romantic plotlines are where there's a smart, capable guy masquerading as a fop or shallow person (think Scarlet Pimpernel or Crown Duel),..."

Crown Duel is a favorite of mine! This may seem minor, but one of the elements I found so refreshing was the fact that neither heroine or hero was drop dead gorgeous. Ms. Sherwood Smith slips us the notion that not only supermodels deserve to be loved.

I love it when the Heroines are strong and willing to leave instead of sticking around and sob.

Tamara wrote: "I love it when the Heroines are strong and willing to leave instead of sticking around and sob."

Oh I have wished many times that the heroine or hero would kick an undeserving suitor to the curb, and get with a secondary character that I like much better,but so far have never had that happen! :[

Tamara wrote: "I love it when the Heroines are strong and willing to leave instead of sticking around and sob."

Oh I have wished many times that the heroine or hero would kick an undeserving suitor to the curb, and get with a secondary character that I like much better,but so far have never had that happen! :[

ME TOO!!! It makes me like the book alot less when they make the hero act like a complete cad in an almost unforgivable manner, but then its like the author realizes its time to wrap the book up and just rushes the heroine into forgiving him and as the reader it just drives me nuts!!

Another plot that I like is when a couple for whatever reason are pretending to be a 'couple' and end up falling in love.

This plot is more common in Contemporary or Chick-Lit books.

I enjoy opposites attract, the standard Regency Romance situation where it is arrainged and they have to fall in love and I also enjoy a good old fashioned romantic comedy where everything is misunderstandings and craziness.

I just thought of another one! Where the couple is attracted via letters, email or internet!

Found three Listopia lists with titles. I would like to read a book where they meet via internet forums about common interests such as books, pets, occupations, ect. Does anyone know of any?

Internet Connection: Romances that began on line
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/3...

Love Letters: Romance novels featuring written communication
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/3...

Love Text: Best Contemporary Romance with Love Notes
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/7...