Afro Book Club discussion

This is the discussion thread for Buck: A memoir, winner of the Diaspora - December 2013 Book of the Month

Book discussion led by Chrislene Lombard

Hey folks, I will be leading the group discussion for Buck. I just started chapter 5. So far, I had a few laughs from the authors witty remarks and I love the hip hop lyrics he adds (and even cites).

I'm noticing a number of threads: mental health, violence, the brevity of life, understanding Blackness, and a lot of trauma. I can relate to his experience which has been mostly been evoking a sad feeling. What are some thoughts and feelings coming up for you all? What themes are you noticing?

Thanks Chrislene, I start reading the book tomorrow and will add my thoughts as I go along. Those themes are ones that are very familiar for the black experience in the USA. I look forward to reading Buck and joining in the discussion.

They certainly are and disheartening. I look forward to reading your thoughts on the book soon!

Can anyone get this book on kindle? Looking for ebook version, Anyone?

Chrislene wrote: "Hey folks, I will be leading the group discussion for Buck. I just started chapter 5. So far, I had a few laughs from the authors witty remarks and I love the hip hop lyrics he adds (and even cites..."

I am frustrated that this book is not available here. It has to be ordered from the USA, very expensive and will take a while before it gets here. Unfortunately the publishers have not made it available on epub. Can you get it on epub in the US?

It is $30 to get the book here, and no epub version. Can this book be purchased through any other epub site?

Be a real pity Buck is not as easily available in Africa, and more of a pity that it is not on epub. $30 is extreme for a book

iTunes is ePub format. You can get "Buck" here https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/buck...

Thanks Raven, but apparently there is no access to it outside USA, Connor said that it gives the message "not available outside USA itunes store) - (and also not on amazon)

What about Google Play here? https://play.google.com/store/books/d...

You know, I think you have to use the iTunes site for South Africa. That might be why you can't buy it. Try here www.apple.com/za/itunes/

Thanks Raven, he will check (tomorrow) I think it is close to midnite in South Africa right now

I see that there is a kindle edition. http://www.amazon.com/Buck-Memoir-M-K...

Donald, did you say that it is not available in SA as well? I'm sorry that it's such a challenge to get this book Diane and Connor. Hopefully, the amazon link works.

Chrislene, there is no option to purchase if you are in South Africa - that is the problem. Only option is to order print copy from USA - takes 2-3 weeks

Raven, also dont use Iphone, pad or tunes - perhaps people who use ipads can do this, many here do not tho

Google Play is another option. Try the link above. There might be a Google Play site specifically for South Africa as well.

Google Play Books are viewable on any device with internet access.

I think in S.A. your best bet is kalahari.com. My books are listed there.

The publishing industry (especially the traditional publishing industry) is not as "open" as technology will allow. And this book is published by one of the biggest traditional publishing companies - so that means that the rights were set in the contract where and when this book will be available based on how and where imprints operate.
I have also been frustrated by a book that is available in Canada, UK, Africa does not have publishing rights in the US so usually meaning the book is not available for purchase in the US when I want to read. Often times the rights will get extended to other countries but it is usually about a year after the original publishing date.
For Caribbean and African books that are not available in the US - I use Book Depository. They are a UK based company and ship free anywhere in the world and also allows for the purchase to different currencies.

Congrats Buck was accepted by a traditional publishing house but that usually means restrictions on availability.

It's on iTunes and Google Play under the sites for your country. You have to look for it.

What was your initial reaction at the book title?

Just started reading Buck! From the first chapter I think its gonna be very good. I enjoy his style of writing
Some of the terminology is different from what is used in California. But the author's use of words and phrases has me entrenched, enthralled, excited to uncover the rest of the journey

Beverly, I like the title Buck because that word is descriptive for somebody who is capable of almost anything.
Will keep you posted as I go along, but liking this

I thought of the expression "Buck Naked" - but I just say butt naked. : P

I was intrigued by the title as I find it interesting how certain terms/words change over time and mean something different to different generations.
And especially terms that black men use to describe themselves and in their language to friends.
I have listened to the terms my father and his age group used when I was growing up in the 50's & 60's, then the terms me in my age group in the 70's & 80's and then next generation (my son-in-law & his peers) in the 90's and now I listen to my grandson & his peers (early 20s).
At first I was taken back because "buck" was a term you often heard white people use and not in a nice way. But then I read what the author said in some of his promo material:

buck n: a fashionable and typically hell-raising young man. 2 racial slur used to describe black men. 3 a young black man: what’s up young buck? 4 the act of becoming wild and uncontrollable: he went buck wild. 5 a dollar. 6 to fire gunshots: buck shots in the air. 7 to go against, rebel: buck the system.

This book has been sitting on my kindle for a little while so glad it is the BOM so it pushed me to reading it.

Yes, very much enjoying his writing style and format - very talented writer.

I have decided to get this book for my grandson.

I am not currently reading this with you but I can say that I have never heard of buck as a "racial slur used to describe black men." That must be even older than the n-word. My parents never told me that and they are very aware of the meanings of words as they relate to Black folks.

I think the term was used for wild / uncontrollable meaning. Young black man living in the urban culture -- in the buck fashion
It is funny how terms take different definitions as the generations progress, - words that have racist meaning then may no longer have now. (maybe less of a slur) Now the word is not used as reference to sex or race in particular, but rather as wild and uncontrollable - when in reference to black men.
He seems to be giving a portrait of how young black men are being raised in Philly ..

Raven wrote: "I am not currently reading this with you but I can say that I have never heard of buck as a "racial slur used to describe black men." That must be even older than the n-word. My parents never told ..."

Yes, it is an old term - it was used especially for young black males - call them a "young buck" - to mean a sexual stud which was used for breeding and then afterwards to "scare" people to imply with integration and rights and such they would be "savaging white women". Well the n-word was always around and was the common word used in every situation - buck would be used in a more specific situation.

Beverly wrote: "Raven wrote: "I am not currently reading this with you but I can say that I have never heard of buck as a "racial slur used to describe black men." That must be even older than the n-word. My paren..."

AGREED

Umh, I'm glad I say butt naked then instead of buck naked... Anyway, tell me more about this book when you get into the thick of it !

I am up to chapter 10 and while I did not live in Philadelphia I did have friends who lived there before, during and after this time period. But it was a very volatile time in certain parts of Philly.

I met the author's father a couple of times in the late 80s and early 90s, attended some of his lectures and read some of his work.

While I think each generation has to fight the issues in their own way based on the times, I do think it is important to understand the history of the past.

I finished the book a few days ago and was waiting to see who else started. I felt like I was in the book.

Beverley, I think you bring up some good points about the importance of learning history. It connects with the title of the book that you all discussed earlier. I do feel like history is not really taught well in the black community and MK's story reinforces that belief. How do we teach history?

What do you all think about MK's family? I find it ironic that his dad is known for Afrocentricity and yet struggled to be present in his own family.

Congratulations to MK Asante who is a Sundance Fellow! Sundance just awarded him a grant/fellowship to develop the movie adaptation of Buck!

Chrislene I am really enjoying it - will comment when I am done

Donald wrote: "Congratulations to MK Asante who is a Sundance Fellow! Sundance just awarded him a grant/fellowship to develop the movie adaptation of Buck!

Chrislene I am really enjoying it - will comment when I..."

Yes, Congrats to MK Asante.

Chrislene wrote: "What do you all think about MK's family? I find it ironic that his dad is known for Afrocentricity and yet struggled to be present in his own family."

I am at Chp 16 so I know I will read more about the family dynamics.
But while reading I have given some thought about the family dynamics and about the father not being present. People tend to follow examples that they see in other family matters and I think I read where his father mentioned about leaving being considered the norm in his family. Also people often learn to resolve conflicts by how they see others around them resolving conflicts.
And while it was not set out right - I got the impression from reading that part of the reason the father left may have been he was concerned how he would react to the tension if he said (become violent).

But will keep reading to see if this is explained in the book.

Chrislene wrote: "What do you all think about MK's family? I find it ironic that his dad is known for Afrocentricity and yet struggled to be present in his own family."

I am not sure if I understand why you think it is ironic that the father left and is known for Afrocentricity?

Beverly wrote: "Chrislene wrote: "What do you all think about MK's family? I find it ironic that his dad is known for Afrocentricity and yet struggled to be present in his own family."

I am not sure if I understa..."

I meant to add a couple of more comments as to why for me I did not see the connection between the father leaving and Afrocentricity as for me I saw/see Afrocentricity as an intellectual exercise it was a framework of a theory and helped pushed (along with other events) African-American depts in universities.

Chrislene wrote: "I finished the book a few days ago and was waiting to see who else started. I felt like I was in the book.

Beverley, I think you bring up some good points about the importance of learning history...."

Chrislene - That is a very good question - How do we teach history? My initial reaction is that it is up to us to teach our history. Then I thought about how did I learn and how did I pass it down to my children and in turn my grandchildren. I think part of it came from listening to the older people in my family - I can't remember the time when I did not feel pride in who I am. Maybe it is because I grew up in NYC, maybe it is because I was lucky enough to go to schools who thought you how to think outside the box. One of my memories is our history teacher asking why the US dropped the atomic bomb on Japan and I responded because they were non-white. I think I always looked at history with a "critical" eye. I am a fiction reader at heart so sought out the books that looked at the black experience.

One of the scenes is the book takes place at a New Year's Eve service. I thought I would say some information about another layer of tradition/history of this service, often times called "Watch Night" as it pertains to African-Americans.

The end-of-year Watch Night of 1862 took on special significance attaching to the impending 1 January 1863 enactment of the Emancipation Proclamation, and that night has come to be known as "Freedom's Eve." On 22 September 1862, President Lincoln issued his Preliminary Emancipation Proclamation, which stated: "[O]n the first day of January ... all persons held as slaves within any State, or designated part of a State, the people whereof shall then be in rebellion against the United States shall be then, thenceforward, and forever free." Lincoln subsequently issued the Emancipation Proclamation itself on 1 January 1863.

While that proclamation did not end slavery the moment it was issued, it did at least proclaim some slaves free. Knowing that this was going into effect the next day must certainly have influenced the nature of that year's Watch Night within the African-American and abolitionist communities, adding a second layer of what was being watched for (the coming of freedom at the stroke of midnight) to the more usual fare (the coming of the Christ at an unspecified future date and therefore the need to maintain a constant personal state of spiritual preparation). Among African-American congregations, that second layer of meaning has since become permanently woven into the fabric of the original, making New Year's Eve Watch Night services as much now about remembering the end of slavery as it is upon personal reflection on the state of one's soul.

The Watch Night Services in Black communities that we celebrate today can be traced back to gatherings on December 31, 1862, also known as "Freedom's Eve." On that night, Blacks came together in churches and private homes all across the nation, anxiously awaiting news that the Emancipation Proclamation actually had become law. Then, at the stroke of midnight, it was January 1, 1863, and all slaves in the Confederate States were declared legally free. When the news was received, there were prayers, shouts and songs of joy as people fell to their knees and thanked God.

Black folks have gathered in churches annually on New Year's Eve ever since, praising God for bringing us safely through another year.

It's been 141 years since that first Freedom's Eve and many of us were never taught the African American history of Watch Night, but tradition still brings us together at this time every year to celebrate "how we got over".

Watch Night, a historical New Year's Eve tradition of reflection and prayer in some American Protestant churches, became a tradition in African-American churches starting in 1862.

That night, on "Freedom's Eve," black churches and abolitionist communities waited for what 19th-century abolitionist leader Frederick Douglass wrote was "the glorious morning of liberty about to dawn upon us."

The proclamation, which Lincoln issued on Jan. 1, 1863, in the middle of the Civil War, formally declared free millions of slaves in rebellious states that had left the United States and were not occupied by federal troops. It also allowed black men who had been enslaved to join the Union Army and Navy.

Though slavery was not fully abolished until the 13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution was ratified in 1865, Watch Night was "a celebration of what freedom might mean," said Dawn Chitty, education director of the African American Civil War Museum in Washington, D.C., which focuses on the history and contributions of the United States Colored Troops.

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jan/...

Beverly what an amazing history, I cannot wait to get my hands on Buck so I can put all of this into context.

As for teaching history, the reality is that black history and culture are not in the mainstream even here in South Africa. Sure my mother spoke about it often, but until you read books yourself and internalise the real black history around the world, the perspective remains limited

In South Africa worse, you will see even on goodreads the South African groups or books chosen are not black history or African perspectives. It is a struggle, that only we have to overcome.

Thanks for this comprehensive background and it makes me see that black people throughout the world create evolving cultures specific to to localities and social situation at the time.
Very interesting

Beverly wrote: "Chrislene wrote: "What do you all think about MK's family? I find it ironic that his dad is known for Afrocentricity and yet struggled to be present in his own family."

I am at Chp 16 so I know I ..."

What I found interesting about his the mental health issues in his family is how it's kind swept under the rug, like with a lot of other black families. People knew what was going on and yet didn't. His mother journal entries were heartbreaking to read how her lack of presence and control was getting progressively worse. And on top of that she was experiencing so much loss. All I can think is of people that is going thru that and how can they find piece to move forward.

As for the dad irony, I honestly was trying to understand his position in the family when he removed himself. He left when things were falling apart, for his own sake. At first I was thinking, why didn't he just stick around and he is leaving his family like many black men. But when he returned again and explained his relationship with MK's mom. I then remembered that was probably a healthy decision. A very tough one.

Wow Beverly! Thanks for sharing that article on Watch Night. I never heard of that before.

I can understand where you are coming from, C.D. Black history is not mainstream in the U.S. unfortunately. I also had to learn black history through books and in college. Reading about Beverly's experience makes me happy that there are places that teaches how to have pride within oneself.

I'm a big media junkie for people of color. I think this can be an avenue to promote our history by creating interesting videos, music, art, etc that we can share. That's why I joined this group because I wanted to read books from black people around the world. This also makes me think of the value of story telling.

Chrislene wrote: "Beverly wrote: "Chrislene wrote: "What do you all think about MK's family? I find it ironic that his dad is known for Afrocentricity and yet struggled to be present in his own family."

I am at Chp..."

I have finished the book.

Yes, the author addressed the mental health issue upfront. And when I read it I tried to thing of the time and the attitudes then and how much, if any, has it changed today in US.

Yes, there was/is a stigma attached to mental illness and treatments have progressed but it is also a matter as usual as who has the money for the best (and most humane treatment) and still much research is needed.

And yes, there was very little open discussion, even among family. And no family support for understanding the illness.

How was the book overall for you Beverly?

Chrislene wrote: "How was the book overall for you Beverly?"

I am still putting together my thoughts for a book review.
I think this is a great book for middle school/high school/young black males and in review will recommend that this book needs to be in public & school libraries. Will also recommend to teachers and other persons who work with young black males.
I think even reluctant readers will like the story as he begins with his life and then gets to part of maturing and understanding the consequences of your decisions. And they will like the inclusion of the lyrics by performers, well written, etc.

I have already bought the book for my grandsons.

I really liked the book. I felt that it was relevant and a long of black men can relate to his experience. I loved how he included hip hop lyrics, they were woven into the book very well. He is a really good story teller. I think this is one of my top books of this year.

I loved the story the MK's Uncle Howard shares about the two wolves.

"There's a war between two wolves inside everybody. One is anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies, and ego. The other's good. It's love, peace, beauty, happiness, truth, hope, joy, humility, kindness, and empathy....'In the story,' I ask, 'who wins...between the two wolves?' 'The one you feed.'"

Tossing in my two cents....

I really enjoyed Asante's memoir. I wish I possessed more knowledge of hip-hop as a whole, no doubt it would have made the reading experience even better. Despite my lack of grasping hip-hop it was wonderful to read of his success, especially since he could have taken such a different path. Very thankful Asante discovered his gift and love of writing. Def a story for all to read, especially the younger set - very inspiring and candid memoir.

Mal wrote: "Tossing in my two cents....

I really enjoyed Asante's memoir. I wish I possessed more knowledge of hip-hop as a whole, no doubt it would have made the reading experience even better. Despite my la..."

Thanks for adding your two cents Mal! Your perspective it helpful to see how people with different experiences identify with the book. I thought MK did good job painting his picture of his life at one point.

Chrislene wrote: "I loved the story the MK's Uncle Howard shares about the two wolves.

"There's a war between two wolves inside everybody. One is anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies, and ego. The..."

Yea that was a great quote from Buck. I liked the book - the hip hop worked for me too. Agree with Beverly that it would be good for younger black men to read - good if was in schools. Consequence of decisions, comin to terms with yourself and "what you feed"
I can imagine that book will be lil difficult for people not in USa and not familiar with hip hop style - so understand Mal's view - even on target market of book
Black men will certainly identify, especially younger ones.
Liked he explored mental illness issue too