Jane Austen discussion

So Louise. You call which one next!

LOL well I suggested Northanger Abbey in the other thread?

Well in case people get annoyed at our lengthy debates and just wanted information about the adaptions, our debates can take place here ;)

I would say NA but unfortunately I have seen only 2007 - I have the other but haven't yet watched it. I will watch it soon so we can.

MP I have seen 1983, 1999, 2007.
S&S I have 1981 (I think, or it was 71. 81 I think and I have 71 to watch) 1995 and 2008
Persuasion I have seen 1995 and 2007 and have 1960 (ish) to watch.

( I was tempted to call the thread something along the lines of 'Sophie and Louise can be found disagreeing strongly here' ;) )

LOL you never know we might completely agree... unlikely I know.

I have seen all of them I think so lets start with an overview:

Northanger Abbey - Best: 2007, Worst: 1980s
Mansfield Park - Best: 1983, Worst: 1999
S & S - Best: 2008, Worst: 1981
Persuasion - Best: 1972, Worst: 1995

The Sense and Sensibility version with Emma Thompson(think it was 1995) reminds me of the Pride and prejudice 1995. They rub me the wrong way. hehe

Here we go *sends hugs Soph's way*

Where is Becca and Nicole? I miss hearing you guys on the group.

I really didn't like the Emma Thompson one the first time I saw it but there's actually a lot to recommend it... I had the same problem with Emma Thompson as I did with Keira Knightly, but the rest of it sort of makes up for her... sort of.

And yes, please do join in if you're around and don't mind being argued with :P

Hey! leave my Lizzie alone :P She is my favourite Elizabeth.

And what do you have to say in her defense? ;P

Northanger Abbey - Favourite of course 2007 ATM. Don't think the 86 will over take it.
Mansfield Park - Best: 1999 (CONTROVERSIAL!), Worst: 2007
S & S - Best: 2008, Worst: 1981 WE AGREE! (Except I haven't seen 71)
Persuasion - Best: 2007, Worst: 1995 - though i don't like to term it worse as its not bad, but I prefer 07. Yet to see 60's one.

Marren I do not like the 1995 S&S, apart from Alan Rickman - it really bothers me.

*sends hugs back* :)

I know Becca has been very busy lately.

Louise we agree on S&S 1995! Shocking ;) I do not think personally it has that much to recommend it. What do you refer to?
In a behind the scenes thing it said how there is only about two lines of direct quotation from the book!?! I CANNOT STAND Grant as Edward Ferrars!!

Oh Marren!! Watch out with saying Knightley is your favourite Elizabeth when Louise is around - you read our last debate ;)

Nothing except a very prejudiced defense :D. I like her feisty ways, seriously with the way Darcy was acting, I am surprise she did not have a heated debate with in public, haha. She brings Elizabeth to life for me. No other Elizabeth has done that for me.

Louise wrote: "And what do you have to say in her defense? ;P"

Warned you Marren ;)

Marren wrote: "Nothing except a very prejudiced defense :D. I like her feisty ways, seriously with the way Darcy was acting, I am surprise she did not have a heated debate with in public, haha. She brings Elizabe..."

They have a very feisty debate during the proposal out in the rain! What is your opinion of Macfadyen's Darcy?!

(we are back on P&P - Ahaha!! I will with hold my opinions ;) )

Hugh Grant is just an annoying actor on the whole. LOL. He is not horrible but he has that sought of lazy tone.

I agree about Hugh Grant. it's a big thing among my friends to be either for Hugh Grant or Colin Firth - I am Firth of course ;)

(oh I will thrown in an opinion ;) ) I agree with you Marren, for some things. Her feistiness is fun and I think that style of Elizabeth fits the style of the film that the director was going for. I like Macfadyen's Darcy - as I have said before (- but Firth is still my favourite.)

Keira's feistiness fits the style of the film yes, (no comment,) but she bears no resemblance to the Elizabeth of the book. I found her quite obnoxious… an impertinent brat. I don’t like agreeing with Caroline Bingley and Mrs Hurst but she’s everything they said she was in their most spiteful moments, which truly Elizabeth was not meant to be.

Team Grant here… I assume the comparison is something to do with Bridgette Jones Diary… I forget about that being some sort of awful version of P&P. I didn’t make it all the way through but will happily place Rene Zelweger lower on the chart than even Keira Knightly.

In all fairness it’s not Colin Firth I dislike I have nothing against him at all, in anything but P&P.

Hugh Grant as Edward Ferrars… well I tend to think of poor Edward as the least likeable of all the nice male leads and I thought Hugh Grant livened him up a little. To put my views on S & S in perspective, I’d seen the 80’s one and found it very slow and boring. The 1971 version I have only seen for the first time this year and the 2008 is by far the best. So by comparison, it wasn’t that bad. It put Margaret back in, it was pacey and funny, it had some actors I really like… it’s not perfect by any means, but as a film I quite like it.

Persuasion… I’m interested in what you think of the 70’s one because I really would say 1995 is bad and the end of the 2007 one is a train wreck, though it is better overall than 95.

Persuasion 1971/2 series is one of the best JA film adaptations. The rest are just dress rehearsals, hehe. 2007 film latter half follows a bit of the original version of Persuasion but it just does not wow me. I like Rupert as Captain W (well so/so) but I felt like he was punishing Anne and they had Anne pursuing him. Matter of fact she looked like she was begging him to love her again. 1995 Anne was just over the top emotional, so emotional that everyone realize something was wrong. See the only time Anne caught anyone's attention was after she read Captain W's letter. With a letter like that, I don't blame her, haha. I don't feel like Ciaran Hinds (sure I got his name mix up, urmm does not rub me as Captain W.)


Out of the two older S&S, I rather 1971. It was enjoyable, it began good, felt flat but catch up again. Yep, 1981 was eh slow. Of course 2008 is my favourite. Gosh all the character just the novel to life.


The older Emma series 1970's? is dreadfully dragging. I took so much longer to watch than the other series (2009). *Yawn worthy*

I think we're on the same page with these ones Marren. 70's Persuasion is wonderful, I'm slow on my re-read of the book but I haven't found anything that doesn't fit yet and Wentworth is perfect.

The 2007 Wentworth I did like... I wasn't so keen on Anne and I hated the marathon around bath, although now it just makes me laugh.

The 1995 Wentworth is a little more rough sailor than gentleman Captain and he doesn't do it for me, but it's really her sisters that have me appauled. When I discuss them with my mother (the only other obsessive fan I know offline) we call them Greed and Sloth.

I like the 1971 S&S for all the wrong reasons it's funny, and overly dramatic.

That was dizzy and yet funny when Anne run around looking for her beau. I saw a behind the scene video, she slipped on one of her practise run. I always wondered how she did not fall, running around on a wet pavement.

LOL @ Greed and SLoth, oh Elizabeth played her part well. There is one of the versions that I liked Charles Musgrove very much. I think it was 1995

Louise:

I think Bridget Jones is a big part - Mark Darcy vs Daniel Cleaver. BUT it is not an adaption of pride and prejudice - it is just very VERY loosely based, well not even that. Themes/ideas were used so I think its quite a fun film. I love to see Grant and Firth fighting - I imagine them not as there characters at that point but as themselves, as I could see those two both famous actors wanting to fight for some reason ;)

In all fairness it’s not Colin Firth I dislike I have nothing against him at all, in anything but P&P.

"I thought Hugh Grant livened him up a little."
WHAT! I did not! He made him even worse than book Ferrars for me. He went really timid and just... no! I did not like his portrayal. Now Dan Stevens did liven him up in 2008 - he made me like the character more. The 2008 did very well IMO. Again, being a series allows for more accuracy.

I agree the end of 2007 was just... wrong. But otherwise I enjoy the 2007. I have never clicked with the 1995. I think my preferred casting would be Anne from 95 with Wentworth from 07.
I will watch the 71 one soon I hope and let you know. :)

Marren:

OH Marren! "dress rehearsals" ahaha!
Ciaran Hinds didn't do it for me either. I did enjoy Rupert though.
You say he seemed to be punishing her. Well, in the book he is bitter at still hurt by Anne's actions, so I think his behaviour is ok - fine line between punishing and being bitter/hurt!

Louise:

I really must watch the older Persuasion from both your opinions of it!

I agree, as I said, about Wentworth 07 - i liked him a lot. I wasn't keen on Anne either (i'm sorry, her hair?!_ which is why i would rather have the Anne from 95.

the marathon around bath is quite funny!

Greed and Sloth - ahahaha! That is perfect!

Marren:
I saw that clip too! It is hilarious!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0Se9q...

and on the subject...
Pride and Prejudice 95
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1PgCL...

and Sense and Sensibility 08
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qb7Na4...

Back on pride and prejudice briefly, when I mentioned combining Anne 95 and Wentworth 07 it got me thinking, with the casts from 40, 80, 95 and 05, what would be your ideal cast for P&P Marren and Louise? (I need to think about mine...)

LOL, I remember seeing the two before Soph, it good to laugh with them again. hehe.

My ideal cast would be everyone in 05,hehe.They all played their role well: Mrs. Bennet was spot on ridiculous, ohh and Lady Catherine De Bough (spelling error there) definitely filled in those shoes(best Lady Catherine, I have seen). Mr. Collins was just so comical, ridiculously good. ohhhh, although I like red hair Charles (is that red) in 05, I think Charles in 80 did a good job. The Darcy from 80, also did a good job. Matter of fact, I enjoyed watching the 80's version of P&P.

Soph wrote: "Marren wrote: "Nothing except a very prejudiced defense :D. I like her feisty ways, seriously with the way Darcy was acting, I am surprise she did not have a heated debate with in public, haha. She..."

Sorry just realize this comment. Ohhh I like Matthew as Darcy. He has such a cute smile. He rarely smiles and when he did I was "ohh he should do that more often." :P He was Darcy for me, first I saw him as stuck up because of Elizabeth impression, however when the narration changed to his side, he shifts to 'I wanted to talk to you but I was not sure how, so I got hasty and dissed you, sorry peaches.' Hehe, oh and no he never said that,that was just my interpretation.

I guessed that might be your response ;)
(I think the hair colour is called ginger ;) )

(yes mine will be all 05 or 95 - I really need to re watch 80's and 40's...)

Lizzy - 95
Darcy - 95
Bingley - 95
Jane - 05
Mary, Lydia, Kitty - 05
Mr Bennet - 95
Mrs Bennet - 05
Lady Catherine - either 05 or 95
Collins - 95
Charlotte - either 05 or 95
Georgiana - 95
Wickham - 95

(this could change quite easily ;) )

Marren wrote: "Soph wrote: "Marren wrote: "Nothing except a very prejudiced defense :D. I like her feisty ways, seriously with the way Darcy was acting, I am surprise she did not have a heated debate with in publ..."

Ahahahaha!! What a fun interpretation of his thoughts! Isn't is lovely when he actually smiles? I do love Matthew's voice! And the scene when he helps her in the carriage, no gloves!, and that piercing stare afterwards!

(oh Caroline - 95!)

40's version is one I did not get to watch recently. I have not seen it in awhile but I did remember Mr. Darcy was an attractive black and white (hehe, referring to the screen). The costumes were distracting and the storyline mehhh.

I found out that there is a 1960's version of P&P. It is like a 1960 version of Persuasion. They just up and made themselves difficult to find. I suspect P&P has the most film adaptaions of all JA novels...think there is also a 1930's as well and yet another version.

Soph wrote: "Marren wrote: "Soph wrote: "Marren wrote: "Nothing except a very prejudiced defense :D. I like her feisty ways, seriously with the way Darcy was acting, I am surprise she did not have a heated deba..."

Oh me too, his voice is charming. He did an audio reading, I listened to a clip on youtube and the ladies were fanning away in the comment section, hehe. Oh that scene leading to the carriage and the look was oh so heartfelt.

The costumes were distracting to begin with!
And yes... The storyline! Attractive black and white man indeed!

I believe there are the most for P&P. that goes for Fan Fiction as well I believe. It is her most famous and well known.

Oh I've heard a clip ;) very nice and... Relaxing ;)

I wouldn't change any of the cast from the 1980's version, they worked too well together and they remain my ideal cast.

If I was going to change the 95 and 05 versions to make one decent film... I'd probably go for the 95 cast for want of choice, but with these alterations:

Lydia - Kitty from 05
Mrs Bennett - 05

And most definitely a different director, screenplay writer and possibly producer!

Interesting. I do agree that when I watched the 1989's one the cast was very good.

I just saw another comment in another group about a Christmas film called "12 men of Christmas" which is a parody of Pride and Prejudice apparently? Anyone heard of it/know it?

Not me.

I've seen that there's a BBC 1960's one like Marren said, and there's a later modern version but it doesn't seem like they're available to buy yet.

I know of a 2004 modern one. Haven't seen it though. What is the opinion on modern firms such as.... Bride and Prejudice, Clueless, one which I cannot remember the name of which is linked to S&S?

I like both of them, they're fun stories and since they're really just 'inspired by' I watch them in the same spirit I read a 'what if' fan fiction.

I tried watching the 1940 version of P&P because my grandmother said it was her favorite and she liked Lawrence Olivier as Mr. Darcy. I could not watch it at all. You could tell that it was a "Hollywood" production. They didn't even attempt to show that they were in England at all. I prefer the 2005 version to the 1995 version, because I like Matthew Macfayden as Mr. Darcy. To me Colin Firth is too "put together" and does not do the aloof as well as Macfayden does...

It is definitely a Hollywood production, yes!

I would recommend both 1980 and 1940 (if you take this one with a pinch of salt!)

I believe there is a 1986 NA but I haven't seen it as yet.

I just checked out the 1980/1981 version of S&S. We shall see if it is as good as the other versions.

Let us know :)

I have been looking at clips on YouTube this evening of the older adaptations which I own and haven't yet had a chance to watch.
I am looking forward to Sense and Sensibility 1971 from the clips I watched. And also Emma 1972 - Mr Knightley looks well interpreted and acted.
And also Persuasion 1971 looked great from clips I watched. Northanger Abbey 1986 not so much! I will watch it but not first ;) (and it is only short after all!)

That sounds about right Soph.

Hurry up and watch them ;)

Will do ;)

Soph wrote: "Interesting. I do agree that when I watched the 1989's one the cast was very good.

I just saw another comment in another group about a Christmas film called "12 men of Christmas" which is a parod..."

I heard of this one as well but I have not seen it.

Soph wrote: "I know of a 2004 modern one. Haven't seen it though. What is the opinion on modern firms such as.... Bride and Prejudice, Clueless, one which I cannot remember the name of which is linked to S&S?"

I love Bride and prejudice, I grew up with Clueless, I watched it recently and I still like it. I have seen some of the modern films based on (sometimes loosely haha) based on JA and I enjoy a few. If it is a direct film adaptations especially with period dressing and such and the story is way off based for example Lost in Austen, I usually feel meh about it but if it is a modern setting, I look for JA plot and usually I enjoy and if I do not, I just dismiss it, haha.

Yes, it depends to what extent they attempt to base it on Jane Austen!

I believe they did show that ending in American cinemas, and for European it was only in the extras. I didn't realise until I looked at the extras about this other ending.

The cinematography and the music were both gorgeous in this film, which I do agree is better to be thought of an interpretation rather than an exact adaptations.

I have been posting my reviews of the adaptations for the Austenprose challenge, this seems a good place to post my last one... since it's gone a bit quiet ;)


“Where natural beauty had been so little counteracted by an awkward taste.” Elizabeth Bennett in Pride and Prejudice

Fay Weldon’s beautifully portrayed 1980 BBC Classic has long been my favourite adaptation of Jane Austen’s most famous novel. Everything about it from the costumes and sets to the music and the theatrical acting style add to the atmosphere and give it an air of refinement that is so lacking in later versions.

One of the things I love is that the script is very close to the original book, it often uses Jane Austen’s own narrative text to fill in the gaps in conversation, and even the dialogue that cannot be traced back to the original seems to be in keeping with the time.

Just as the book unfolds the characters by their words and deeds, so do the actors in this version convey all of the meaning with grace and subtlety. The lines sound natural, there is no doubt that they understand what they are staying and the added nuances, such as the shared looks between Mr and Mrs Gardner when in company with the Hurst’s add to the warmth and help convey the depth of the characters.

Elizabeth Garvie and David Rintoul make the perfect Elizabeth and Darcy, with the right mix of dignity, pride and humour on both sides. Likewise this version’s Jane and Bingley come over as good natured but not at all stupid, the ideal companions. Lydia is the right mix of silliness and obliviousness without being hideously vulgar, Judy Parfitt as Lady Catherine de Bourgh is a force to be reckoned with and the somewhat frog-like Mr Collin’s a pleasure to watch.

As much as I love it this adaptation is, of course, not without its flaws. The Actors are older than their characters, though they are in proportion to each other so I do not think it stands out too badly. Mary is totally unable to play and sing, though she tries, rather than simply having no real taste or natural ability. Sir William and Maria Lucas don’t go to Hunsford with Elizabeth, but the far worse omission is that we do not see the conversation between Elizabeth and her father after Darcy’s successful proposal, and that I think is a shame.

The one very wrong, and to my way of thinking, inexplicable change, is that when Elizabeth reads Jane’s letter about Lydia’s elopement she literally runs to Pemberley in search of the Gardners.

Though I know that not everyone agrees with me, even with its faults, I truly believe this mini series has yet to be beaten as the definitive adaptation of Pride and Prejudice.

I do agree that use of the script from the book is impressive - I like how they used it in the gaps as well.

I also did like the casting - David Rintoul and Elizabeth Garvie were definitely the stars and they were brilliant. and yes it was nice to see a good Jane and Bingley, and a Bingley who was not silly!

The omission of the conversation between Lizzy and Mr Bennet is annoying! That is such an important conversation!

Of course, I cannot agree with the last comment entirely, as I prefer the 1995, but I do love the 1980 mini series as well.

I'm glad we almost agree ;)