The Sword and Laser discussion

I loved this book! I found its take on a "dragon" story refreshingly new. It did in fact read like a Natural Scientist in the parts where the dragon came into play. I wasn't even too distracted by the plot to keep enjoying the dragons.

I enjoyed the start, but it sort of fell off for me. I was hoping for more dragons.

I also really enjoyed the book. I've planning to read this for awhile now and was really glad when it was picked. I'm even happier that I enjoyed it so much.

Of course as a woman doing a masters degree in a biological science field I'm even happier that I don't live in the society Isabella lives. Which is to say I was impressed with how the the book portrayed the class and sex divides that where present in the book and in our own history during the Victorian and Industrial Revolution.

This was excellent. I didn't think I would enjoy it as much as I did. I was hooked immediately by the memoir aspect of the story. I am not usually a fan of the fantasy genre so was very pleasantly surprised by this book. If you get it on audio it is even better. The narrator is so good and really made Lady Trent come alive. I hope the author will continue Lady Trent's adventures.

I loved this so much that I wish the paperback was out so I could give it as a Christmas gift to my best friend. I might have to spring for the hard cover.

I suspected early on that Jacob was going to die, since she was "now" Lady Trent, but the rest of the book had me guessing.

I'm always thankful that I live in a time where I can have a job and wear pants after I finish a book like this.

Loved it! I never would have picked this up had it not been a club pick. Isabella hooked me right away. I got so caught up that I even teared up a bit when reading Jacob's final moments, then turned the page to his portrait. Great pic Veronica! Now on to give the alt a go.

I'll have to give this one the benefit of the doubt as the opener to a trilogy. It felt like there is still much to be told in this world where dragons and men (barely) co-exist. Dragons end up suffering because of simple human greed.

I do have to wonder though, is anyone else finding it hard to put aside what we "know" to be true about dragons and take the book at face value? I had to keep suppressing my own knowledge, will, and expectations in order to finally get through it.

I didn't hate it, but I don't know that this is something I will follow up on.

Brennan's US publisher's web site has it as a five book series rather than a trilogy. I'll definitely be picking them up.

Rob wrote: "I enjoyed the start, but it sort of fell off for me. I was hoping for more dragons."

Yeah, I thought it was a bit of an unanticipated genre-shift at the end there into adventure-thriller. I guess the title had me expecting something in the spirit of Linnaeus' Philosophia Botanica, but it was closer in style to the Voyage of the Beagle. To be fair the Lady Trent did warn us in the beginning it would be more memoir than scientific tract.

Filippo wrote: "I do have to wonder though, is anyone else finding it hard to put aside what we "know" to be true about dragons and take the book at face value?"

Not really. I've read so many different fantasy series whose dragons are different from one another I just assume not to assume anything.

I enjoyed the memoir aspect of it and the character really felt alive. Almost flawless!

The only minus was the sort of "Deus ex machina" in the end, saving Isabelle at the very last minute. But nothing that I can't forgive.

I enjoyed it very much while I was reading it, but I've got some quibbles.

The alternate place/language/religion/calendar names put me off and kept knocking me out of the text. I'd almost rather the world did not mirror our own down to geography and politics or mirrored our own more closely, keeping the names as they are, like in His Majesty's Dragon.

I did not realize that the book was the first of a planned five, so I felt cheated to find that the "memoir" only really had her childhood and first adventure. But now that I know that there's more to come, I'll probably stick with the series.

Lady Trent is fun and a great narrator voice, but did anybody else find her unbelievably before her time? Less so the young Mrs. Camherst, who has prejudices and shame at being unladylike, but more so the much older Lady Trent. She has modern opinions on love, women's clothing, religion. I found her almost unbelievable. There were and are real life people ahead of their time, but I would expect her to be backward at least in some way given her cloistered upbringing. Remember that even what she was able to read as a child was restricted. But I suppose that was done so that we wouldn't find her unsympathetic.

Lady Trent reminds me of the suffragettes from our own timeline. It helps that her own father must have not agreed with their current mores in the fact that he encouraged her to read and explore. She obviously grew up in a man's world as the only girl child and would naturally lean towards their ways.

I'm not convinced that she was that much out of her time. Her early years sound very similar to Mary Somerville, albeit with a focus on biology rather than astronomy and the dissection of the bird sounds like something Ada Lovelace might have done for her book on flight.

Joanna wrote: "Lady Trent is fun and a great narrator voice, but did anybody else find her unbelievably before her time? Less so the young Mrs. Camherst, who has prejudices and shame at being unladylike, but more so the much older Lady Trent."

I don't know enough of the history of the fictional land of Scirland to say.

Facetiousness aside, even using the Victorian era as a standard, she has a fair bit of company.

Like you said, most of the progressive opinions are held by the future Lady Trent, who's likely lived through decades of social change (which she probably helped along). We know that from an early age she both balked at the status quo, and possessed a curiosity and openness to new ideas. And we know she's not obstinate or devoid of empathy: she comes around on her opinion of Wilkins, and is eventually able to see things from Dagmira's point of view. It makes perfect sense to me that she'd overcome the prejudices of her youth given time.

I think the author walked a tight rope with the Victorian sensibilities and gender roles and still gave us a likable truly enthusiastic and energetic female protagonist.

Marie Brennan used Lady Trent's voice as a counterpoint to many of the norms of the time and gave us a hint of who Isabella will become.

I was not surprised but a little saddened (view spoiler)[ when Jacob died. Through the book I came to realize that Isabella could not become the Lady Trent while in Jacob's shadow. Not that Jacob wanted Isabella to be held in less regard but that society would have held her there (hide spoiler)]

Overall I enjoyed the book but I am up in the air if I will continue the series. Victorian era politics and relationships are not really my cup of tea no matter how great the story is.

I was really surprised in a positive way by this book. I'm not a dragon "fan" so I had my share of doubts going into a book that promised to be about dragons. It was great to see that it was more than that - that it really presented a fantasy world, just close enough to our own world to be recognizable, but fantastic enough to be eerie and weird from time to time.

In that sense, I did not mind the "lack" of dragons, since they are more of an excuse to present this world and Lady Trent's adventures. Similarly, I liked the way the author changed names of places and others - I think we can agree that Scirland is pretty much a re-imagination of Britain, and so on and forth.

Some people have mentioned that Lady Trent has way too modern idea of clothing, sexuality and other subjects; I would like to disagree. If we thinks that the age feels "Victorian" we can make an analogy to our own world - and say for example that Lady Trent was born circa 1880, so by the the time she was 50 (1920) there were some semblance of women's movement - if we consider her to be at her narration point to be a grandmother of 80, then we are already at a date closer to a 1950, and civil right's movement. So it doesn't seem to me, out of place.

Liked a lot, would like to know more about this world to pass any sort of judgement. It seems like tha author may play a lot with us; the lack of metals on this world which seems to have postponed and industrial revolution, is most fascinating.

I was not thrilled with this book. The alternate history seemed to extend solely to new names for countries and languages, and an off hand reference to gender equality later in the book that did not seem to be shown throughout the text. Oh, and also the dragons, unless they really DO exist and keep away from humans like any smart animal would.

I was very unimpressed that the "memoir" of a "dragon naturalist" covered only Isabella's first expedition where she was a glorified secretary with a curiosity that seemed more childish than scientific.

A lot of this book was "tell" not "show" for me. I wished there had been a lot more about dragon lore and less about the village she spent the expedition in. I also found that Isabella's voice, which I'm assuming was meant to be ultra analytical, made me rather unsympathetic towards her.

Luckily the book was a rather fast read, which allowed me to skim a bit towards the end where the plot turned into a political conspiracy/murder mystery direction.

I guess I just got off on the wrong foot with this one.

I agree with what some others have said already. The story was ok, but really I wanted to hear more about the dragons and less about the other stuff going on.

I loved this book. It was a fun read and took me back to the Hardy Boy books I read when I was a kid.

Filippo (message 7), what do we "know" to be true about dragons? They're fictional. What source do you think is the definitive one? Just like vampires and zombies they can be however the author likes.

I thought this book was well written, although a little slow. I am a huge fan of Victorian era books, and was prepared to like this, but that long slog in the middle almost did me in. I probably won't go on with the series, but I might check out the next book to see if the pacing is a little better.

Has anyone else here read the Amelia Peabody mysteries by Elizabeth Peters? She is an English lady archeologist at the turn of the century, who works in Egypt with her husband and friends every winter. It is one of my favorites of all time.

This book reminded me very much of those books, but with dragons.

My problem is, that Amelia is even more outrageous and unconventional and she never apologizes for it. She (and her husband) are also tons of fun. SO, in comparison, I find Isabella and Jacob kind of boring.

Its unfair of me to compare them but I just couldn't help being a bit disappointed, feeling this had great potential and was well-written but a bit...meh.

The dragons weren't very awe-inspiring, the mystery wasn't very scary or confusing, maybe just a bit too many little unimportant details...I'm not sure why, but overall I feel something was missing, something that could have made this a great entertaining book, instead of mildly interesting and easy to read.

By the way, did anyone else expect the sparklings to be important somehow? I felt the obvious similarity between them and the dragons to be significant, but that went nowhere.

Wasn't sure about the tone of the book at first then when it was over I wanted more. The last section of the book could have been a bit more drawn out everything seemed to speed up and finish too soon but saying that I really enjoyed it

I loved this and hope that Marie Brennan gives us more of Lady Trent's adventures

I really enjoyed the book. It started strong, and while it dragged a little in spots for me, I enjoyed it in the end and will definitely read the next book in the series, though if it comes out next year, maybe not then (as my goal for next year is to ONLY read things I've already purchased).

I really wanted to love this book, but it fell flat for me. I liked the idea of running off to study dragons (being a biology student that really appealed to me) but overall the pacing of the book just didn't work for me, and the story itself was a bit dull. It felt horribly slow in some places yet rushed in others. That could just be because it's the first in a series, and often the first book is slower than the others. Sadly, I don't think I will be continuing this series.

Michele wrote: "Has anyone else here read the Amelia Peabody mysteries by Elizabeth Peters? She is an English lady archeologist at the turn of the century, who works in Egypt with her husband and friends every win..."

No, but those sound very interesting. Will add to my 'look out for' list. Sadly Barbara Mertz aka Elizabeth Peters passed away August 8th this year :(

Crocodile on the Sandbank is the first one, you can usually find her in used books stores and for sure in libraries. Luckily she wrapped up the series. I also read her Barbara Michaels books, which are modern gothic romances, long before I discovered Amelia and I had no clue it was the same author.

Anyways, sorry to hijack the thread, but if you liked Natural History of Dragons, and don't mind a historical mystery without any fantasy, I highly recommend these :)

For a well-written book (third act problems aside), I was really pretty disappointed in this one. It was all kind of drab. There was nothing interesting about Scirland to distinguish it from England so call it England and have fun with the mix of real history and imagined differences you introduce. If your expedition location is a mountain range in Poland or the Ukraine, call it that and then you have a rich history to draw from. And, as people upthread have pointed out, for a book whose title claims that the book will be about dragons, we spend very little time actually in their presence.

Sigh, the book gave me the feeling that Brennan is really a good writer (for example, she made characters come alive and be distinctive from each other with little apparent effort) but that this isn't the best she can do.

Also, while I think she's a good writer, plot and pacing don't seem to be her strong points. The first third was a bit episodic but fun, the middle third was kinda dull except when they are dissecting the dragon but seemed realistic - like that's what it would have been like for a person who is sort-of but not-quite included in the expedition,and then the last third ... that was just ludicrously silly.

Sigh, I guess the book just didn't hit me right. I wished I were in the camp that really loved it.

A Natural History of Dragons is the first book I've read after recently joining Sword and Laser. I finished it earlier today and don't really have many strong feelings on it either way. There wasn't anything to love or hate in this book. The "suspense" at the end felt scooby-dooish. Jacob's death failed to raise any emotion out of me. And the over all plot ended anticlimactically and felt a little contrived.

I found the memoir writing style lacking in details and imagery. I never once felt I could smell the inside of their lodging, or feel the scales of a dragon's hide, or picture myself working among this group of "scientists".

However, there were some things I liked. I thought the ideas behind miniature dragons, and the fire/ice/rank breathing full sized ones were interesting, but open ended, to be fleshed out in further novels. Sadly, I won't be reading them. Also the duality of both the young headstrong woman and older, wiser writer seemed to read very convincing; I imagine writing in a dual voice would be difficult.

Well, that's my first stumbling commentary for the S&L group!

Alan wrote: "...while I think she's a good writer, plot and pacing don't seem to be her strong points. The first third was a bit episodic but fun, the middle third was kinda dull except when they are dissecting the dragon but seemed realistic - like that's what it would have been like for a person who is sort-of but not-quite included in the expedition,and then the last third ... that was just ludicrously silly."

I agree that the 'third act' didn't quite live up to the earlier bits. The pacing there seemed a bit jarring and it was as others have said "scooby-dooish" (I think largley because of the pacing). However, I'm a sucker for great characters and I think that's what made this so memorable for me. The contrast between the young Isabella and Lady Trent and the journey from her pre-Victorian (or Scirling equivalent) upbringing to dragon-scalping, smuggler-fighting, authority-defying liberated woman was tons of fun for me. Plus setting this character in an age of discovery (in regards to anthropology, archeology, and... dragon-ology?) just adds an extra dimension of awesome.

But given the strength of the writing and the characters I think this could have been about Lady Trent reflecting on her prior views on Scirling road development and it still would have been at least a little interesting.

Zach wrote: "Well, that's my first stumbling commentary for the S&L group!
"

Welcome! Thanks for sharing your experience.

Michele wrote: "Has anyone else here read the Amelia Peabody mysteries by Elizabeth Peters? She is an English lady archeologist at the turn of the century, who works in Egypt with her husband and friends every win..."

I'm a huge Amelia Peabody fan and have read the entire series. I completely agree, I actually described this book to my husband as "Amelia Peabody with dragons." These characters just aren't as interesting, though... I'm not sure I'll look for the next book.

I finished the book last night and thought that it was a fun, entertaining read. I agree with some of the other comments regarding pacing and plot, but overall I thought it was an good story with interesting characters. I liked the memoir style and the reflections of Lady Trent. I liked that Isabella was a complicated woman who still has room to grow as a person. I look forward to reading the other books in the series.

I ripped through this book in very little time and thoroughly enjoyed its Temperance Brennan-meets-Alexia Tarrabotti vibe. The primary reasons I loved the book are the same that were already well explained by Matthew (message 30: great characters, smashing the patriarchy, old/young Isabella contrast, and age of discovery aspects).

I am left wondering, though, what other folks thought about Jacob's death.

I felt a bit cheated because at first I was in denial (he'll come around!) and then all of the immediate chaos subdued any emotional response I might have experienced. Also, while Isabella comments about feeling culpable, it seemed hand waived and brief. What a missed opportunity to explore some really interesting questions about the nature of sacrifice (for science!) and his/her agency in the willful undertaking of danger. The fact is that the whole time Jacob is obsessed with his role as her caretaker/protector, she is putting him in ultimate peril, no? What do you guys think?

Jacob bored me. I wasn't convinced by their romance at all, he just seemed like a cardboard cutout of a man. And if I hadn't been paying attention I would have missed his death altogether, it was so glossed over.

I dunno, the more I think about this book the more annoyed I get, because I think it could have been much better.

Meh. Very much in the style of H.Rider Haggard but far less arch; not much of a payoff after significant investment.

Finished both books! I have to say, the other pick had a much stronger sense of urgency, but I enjoyed reading a female lead. I did both as an audiobook, and while His Majesty's Dragon had the dramatics, this book actually made me curious for the next in the series; I really want to know her story.

Diana wrote: "I ripped through this book in very little time and thoroughly enjoyed its Temperance Brennan-meets-Alexia Tarrabotti vibe. The primary reasons I loved the book are the same that were already well e..."

I really enjoyed it... but I don't see why Jacob had to die. :( I would have enjoyed reading more about the two of them together growing as a couple and as scientists.

Kathryn wrote: "Diana wrote: "I ripped through this book in very little time and thoroughly enjoyed its Temperance Brennan-meets-Alexia Tarrabotti vibe. The primary reasons I loved the book are the same that were ..."

Because smart, capable women can't also be happy. What kind of moral message would that send! Pish tosh.

I liked it. I like the ideas in the book. The writing and pacing are excellent and I loved the voice of the older Lady Trent as narrator.

The story itself was ok. Enjoyable, but nothing that really grabbed me. The narrator's voice combined with the even pacing kept me going without problems though.

As an extra the illustartions are well done and added and extra layer to the story. The moment were Jacob had just died and then I turned the page to stumble upon his likeness actually made me pause for a moment. Whoever thought that detail up did a great job.