The Luminaries discussion

It is clear that Crosbie dies of laudnum poisoning from a bottle brought to Hokitika by Carver (yes?) but I am uncertain as to why Crosbie drinks it - do we assume that, as an alcoholic, he was tricked into drinking it? Or Carver poisoned his drink (someting Crosbie didn't fall for earlier) Any sign of Carver and he would have run a amile.

Sadly, I think it's unclear what actually happened. Maybe he was drunk and almost passed out and Crosbie forced him to.

Thank God there are other people questioning this - I read the book and felt I wasn't doing too bad following the many characters andt twists, but realised I was drawing a blank on what happend to Crosbie

Along those same lines, I was also drawing a blank on what happened to Carver. Are we supposed to assume that Te Rau Tawhare, after observing the flimsy lock mechanism, chased the trolley up the hill and bashed his head in with his special green billy club to avenge Crosbie's death while all the other witnesses were detained at the courthouse?

Abby wrote: "Along those same lines, I was also drawing a blank on what happened to Carver. Are we supposed to assume that Te Rau Tawhare, after observing the flimsy lock mechanism, chased the trolley up the hi..."

Hmmmm - I think you're on the right track that would explain why there is a chapter towards the finale where Te Rau pretends to bash Carver in. I also suspected that whatever happened Lydia was in on it

Yes. There is a strange conversation between carver and Te Rau about how his green stone club is stronger than steel, so we are left to assume that he killed Carver. But I thought this was the one thing Lydia had not planned.

Thanks, everyone. I agree that it makes the most sense Te Rau Tawhare killed Carver with the greenstone club.

Didn't Te Rau Tawhare unwittingly point out Well's location to Carver, before Te Rau realized who Carver was? And he felt terrible afterwards?

Yes. That's right.

I wonder if Catton didn't leave so many things unanswered so that we might talk about them? Well done!

So while we're on the topic of things we didn't understand: the trial.

I think the thing that bothered me the most was the complete 180 that the priest/clergyman did (his name is escaping me.) When he took the unsigned statement to Anna and she ran away with it and signed it, he made it very clear that he would testify against her fraud.

And then he wound up testifying in her defense? If I'm remembering correctly, he was also the one who convinced Moody to serve as her defender. Why? He knew she was the one that signed the paper. Why would he start to lie? He was one of the only consistently honest and moral characters throughout the entire story.

So I know there’s that whole tenuous awkward "Anna and Emery have twin souls" thing, which I felt was a bit of a cop out. But assuming we take this as truth, are we supposed to assume that everyone that testified for the defense believed it too? So they’re all thinking, "yeah… That makes sense. Emery Staines wasn't behind Anna's curtain when he got shot like he testified, he was underneath the deck of the Godspeed spewing blood from his (Anna’s) bullet wound. Okay. Right. But let's not say that at the trial 'cause everyone will think that's effing crazy."

A priest is not going to get behind the explanation that the missing man signed the paper through the soul of his prostitute lover and therefore it’s maybe now totally legally valid. That is some kind of devil voodoo right there.

I think Devlin, the Priest, didn't want Anna going to jail and he saw a way he could help prevent it without actually lying. He did not see her sign it as he was getting tea, so he didn't commit perjury. Also, he knew that she couldn't read or write, so I think he realized there was something bigger at play.

But yes, it is not made clear what the 12 men believe, but I believe in the "astral twins" thing; in the book of course, less so in real life. Staines was kept alive by Anna's eating, which explains her weight loss, he became addicted while she kicked the habit, and she could sign his name perfectly. It's interesting how it played out, and how understated it was. Keeps you thinking, that's for sure.

Dianna wrote: "I wonder if Catton didn't leave so many things unanswered so that we might talk about them? Well done!" I thought there were so many loose ends that I was left wondering if it was the characters, the author or myself who was under the influence of the "pipe"!

I too was wondering how all 12 men agreed on the same story in a short time and why.
Another question I was left with at the end of the book though was what did happen to Staines, I know that he and Anna both collapsed at the same time but why did he end up in a coffin on the Goodspeed? How did hiding Staines on his ship connect with Carver's plans?

Josh wrote: "It is clear that Crosbie dies of laudnum poisoning from a bottle brought to Hokitika by Carver (yes?) but I am uncertain as to why Crosbie drinks it - do we assume that, as an alcoholic, he was tri..."

I was thinking that crosbie was probably forced by carver to drink the laudanum, presumably at gunpoint, but now I am not sure. Either that or Carver poisoned some booze...but it says that crosbie drank half the vial, so to me that implied that he was drinking the laudanum straight out of the bottle. I dont know. I wish catton had given us the precise circumstances of this event.

Is it just me; does everyone else know what exactly happened to Anna on the road when she met Carver? He slapped her, a gunshot was fired (by whom?) and the horse reared....what? Also, how did the retorted gold end up hidden in Crosbie's house?

Jill wrote: "Is it just me; does everyone else know what exactly happened to Anna on the road when she met Carver? He slapped her, a gunshot was fired (by whom?) and the horse reared....what? Also, how did the..."

I'd also love for someone to take a stab at the meeting between Carver and Anna in the road.

I think Carver hid the gold in Crosbie's hut (we are also told he tries to burn the unsigned deed of gift). He knew that Lydia was Carver's widow and would be entitled to the gold found there.

Although I'm not sure why it didn't give him pause to consider that the gold was stamped with the Aurora name, but then again we has 50% owner of the mine and Staines was out of the way.

Does anyone think that Carver actually shot Staines after taking the cartridge (but not the primer/powder/whatever) out of Anna's gun and putting him in a coffin in the Godspeed hold? Which is why Gascione and Pritchard couldn't find the cartridge from her first firing of the gun?

Thanks, Eugene. Hmm...I think I need to read it again and get a lot more out of it next time! Particularly need to rethink the gold and how It got into Crosbie's house. I don't remember it being dug up after Staines buried it. Did Carver find it?

Jill wrote: "T...the gold and how It got into Crosbie's house. I don't remember it being dug up after Staines buried it."

The way I interpreted it was that Staines told Wells where he buried the gold the night that he went to his hut after Anna's assault (and told Wells he wanted to give her half). when Carver shows up at Well's hut, the gold had already been excavated, presumably by Wells (or maybe Tauwhare).

Jill wrote: "Is it just me; does everyone else know what exactly happened to Anna on the road when she met Carver? He slapped her, a gunshot was fired (by whom?) and the horse reared....what? Also, how did the..."

Carver's evidence in court about his meeting with Anna on the road ties up with the narrative of that event. I don't think Carver was lying when he said he didn't kill her baby. I took it that the gun spooked the horse and it reared up and kicked Anna, causing the miscarriage

Andrew wrote: "I took it that the gun spooked the horse and it reared up and kicked Anna, causing the miscarriage"

Huh.. I never thought of that, but that's actually quite brilliant and makes a lot of sense! It's a coincidense, for sure, but then there are lots of other coincidenses that drive the plot at other times.
Although it might be insignificant, are there any guesses where the shot came from? My two best guesses are: it doesn't matter (e.g., someone hunting nearby) and George Shephard (he is later described as sitting in his home with a rifle in his lap).

Samantha wrote: I was thinking that crosbie was probably forced by carver to drink the laudanum, presumably at gunpoint, but now I am not sure. Either that or Carver poisoned some booze...but it says that crosbie drank half the vial, so to me that implied that he was drinking the laudanum straight out of the bottle. I dont know. I wish catton had given us the precise circumstances of this event.

I too am left wondering about the specifics of Crosbie's death. There was no reason for him to commit suicide, nor would he have willingly drunk laudanum. So perhaps the only scenario is one in which Carver forces him to drink it. But wouldn't Crosbie have put up a fight? And how could Carver have been sure that the laudanum would kill Crosbie?

As for who killed Carver, I'm quite sure it was Te Rau Tawhare. Although Carver met his deserved end, I feel sad that Ah Sook didn't get to avenge his family's name, his father's death, and his own ill treatment at the hands of Carver. Perhaps his fate had something to do with his character's astrological position?

Why did Margaret give up Ah Sook after helping him? Fear of her husband? And after that, Catton describes Margaret as spending time at the graveyard...mourning Ah Sook?

What will happen now to Lydia Wells? Will she be put in jail for the fraud and blackmail?

Finally, I appreciated learning the back story of how Anna arrived in New Zealand and how Lydia "euchred" her. But it seems quite unrealistic that she would have slept with Crosbie Wells so quickly, especially since she wasn't a prostitute yet at that time. Are we supposed to think that she a) realized she had no other choice? Or b) had genuine affection for Crosbie Wells?

Carrie wrote: "Thanks, everyone. I agree that it makes the most sense Te Rau Tawhare killed Carver with the greenstone club.

Didn't Te Rau Tawhare unwittingly point out Well's location to Carver, before Te Rau..."

They said that the doors of the steel carriage had been opened and presumably Carver was dragged to death. Earlier Te Rau's necklace is described as stronger than steel. I think he broke open the latch knowing the carriage driver would drive dangerously with Carver inside.

Rachel wrote: "I too was wondering how all 12 men agreed on the same story in a short time and why.
Another question I was left with at the end of the book though was what did happen to Staines, I know that he a..."

I thought Moody, as their "Judge" and they the "Jury" directed them in how to act so that the story looked seamless from the outside and only the players would know the complicated truth. I thought it hinted at a complex morality, they are all lying but they lie so that the evil people are punished and the innocent can go free.

Abby wrote: "So while we're on the topic of things we didn't understand: the trial.

I think the thing that bothered me the most was the complete 180 that the priest/clergyman did (his name is escaping me.) Whe..."

The preacher is painted as a less-than perfect clergyman. I often wondered if he really was clergy or if he was just someone who took that role over in wanting to start a new life.

Does this seem right regarding how Staines ended up on board in the crate on the Godspeed: On 1/14 he spends the night with Anna. On 1/15, Anna wakes up and is upset, thinking he can't love her, so she takes opium. Since Staines is her astral twin, he feels the effects of the opium, falls, hits his head on Gibson Quay and collapses into Lauderback's open shipping crate left there by the dockside crew, who, without seeing him, nail up the crate in the dark. He spends two weeks living in the crate sustained by Anna (who had collapsed in the street when Staines hit his head). 1/27 he is found by Moody in the crate. Just at that moment, Anna fires her gun into her breast, which instead injures Staines, though he is far away. Then the ship sinks and he washes up on shore. Anna sustains him during his time in the wilderness, getting thinner and thinner.

Thinking that Carver may have had nothing to do with Staines' misfortune, or Anna's miscarriage, I started wondering if he actually had anything to do with Wells' death either - but I can't figure out how Wells died.

Well, reading through that lot has answered a few of the questions I had, and raised a few more! And I agree with Lyn, who wrote "Finally, I appreciated learning the back story of how Anna arrived in New Zealand and how Lydia "euchred" her. But it seems quite unrealistic that she would have slept with Crosbie Wells so quickly, especially since she wasn't a prostitute yet at that time. Are we supposed to think that she a) realized she had no other choice? Or b) had genuine affection for Crosbie Wells?" My thoughts exactly. Why did she sleep with Crosbie Wells at the drop of a hat?

Crosbie was expecting to finally meet his long lost half brother, Lauderback, that night, when Carver turned up at his door (as Te Rau told Balfour). Carver said to Lydia that he would kill Crosbie, so it is safe to assume that he forced Crosbie to drink the Laudenum, to make it look like suicide. Carver then found the gold, that Crosbie and/or TeRau had dug up, and left it there knowing that Lydia would be legally entitled to it.

Crosbie was probably caught off guard and drinking heavily while waiting for Lauderback. It's unlikely he committed suicide given that he so wanted to meet Lauderback, and it's equally as unlikely that Carver would have just left him alone.

Alternatively, Carver shows up at the hut and Crosbie is already far gone, having drunk himself into a stupor in anticipation for Lauderback. Maybe Crosbie is ashamed and even frightened to be finally meeting his brother. Seeing it's Carver, he is uninterested, eventually takes a swig of Carver's laudenum of his own volition, which in combination with the alcohol causes cardiac arrest.

seriously, its great to hear and make sense of what happened but when I finally got to the end of and read that last page I just wanted to throw the book away.

Seriously , I just hated that last page. Really, after all that time. It was like the worst art movie ever.

Michele wrote: "Does this seem right regarding how Staines ended up on board in the crate on the Godspeed: On 1/14 he spends the night with Anna. On 1/15, Anna wakes up and is upset, thinking he can't love her, ..."
Michele: that all makes the best sense, my book club couldn't figure it out but your explanation cuts right through it, I can't wait to let my book club know!

The thing that is bothering me that so far hasn't been mentioned is that Carver is the one who unearths the hidden treasure. How does THAT happen? And on Maori land? Unless he threatened/tortured Crosbie to give him location?
I agree he left gold in house because Lydia would inherit and/or he was half owner of Aurora Stake.

But it's clear Carver found it: and I just don't see how that can be.

I also think that, waiting for his meeting with his long-lost brother, Crosbie would have kept a lid on his drinking (for one night). A little, to keep the edge off, but not a full blown drunken night.

The book is a conceit....We shouldn't be asking all these questions. Not after 800 pages.

I threw the book at the last page. Almost killed dog. So: agree

But there were only TRACE amounts of laudanum in his system. Not half a bottle......

Deidre wrote: "But there were only TRACE amounts of laudanum in his system. Not half a bottle......"

I don't think you should read too much into that. We don't know how quickly laudanum gets metabolized by the body, nor the sensitivity of the tests used to detect it in a body postmortem. The point is that it was there, which servers as a clue points to Carver's involvement in Crosbie's death.

I was trying to find a clue as to how Carver finds the gold and failed to do so. The only people knew of its location were Crosbie, Te Rau, and Staines. I hope someone can find the clue, but I think it may have been Te Rau that lead Carver to the gold.

I agree there is no way Carver could have found the gold...I have also failed

Carver was looking for the trunk with the dresses but his men took the other crate belonging to the politician and put it on the ship so maybe he found and read Crosbie's letter describing where the gold was hidden? It's all very confusing!

Michele wrote: "Does this seem right regarding how Staines ended up on board in the crate on the Godspeed: On 1/14 he spends the night with Anna. On 1/15, Anna wakes up and is upset, thinking he can't love her, ..."

Michele here has got it right, I guess. It makes so much sense. I guess this solves at least the question in hand regarding Staines. Kudos to your mind, man!

I don't think Carver had to unearth anything. Crosbie originally digs the gold in Dunstan and ships it in a safe to Lydia. She and Carver hatch the plan to steal that same gold and hide it in the dresses so they can blackmail Lauderback and transport it to Australia without duty. But the crate with the dresses is lost due to the Danforth/Balfour crate confusion. Anna buys the dresses at salvage. Quee discovers the gold and removes it from the dresses. He retorts it and stamps it with Aurora and then delivers it to Staines with the hope his percentage will be buy him his freedom. Staines, thinking this is Aurora gold, doesn't want to report it because he doesn't want to share the profit with Carver who he thinks is evil. He buries it. He tells Wells where he buried it. It's possible the burying is a lie (the story is full of them) and that he 'hid' it in Wells house --as we learned the whole house was 'stuffed' with it. Or Wells dug it up knowing where it is. Either way Staines tells Wells he wants to give half to Anna to compensate her -- since he believes that Carver beat Anna and killed the child. The joke is that Crosbie's own gold has gone full circle back to him without him knowing it. Unless I've missed something -- which with this damn book is awfully easy to do...lol. I think someone needs to write "Luminaries for Dummies..or even Not Dummies..."

gaia1muse. thanks for the summary. my brain hurts after a marathon effort to finish. I love the idea of the gold coming full circle. im also glad that carver got it from the maori, and I was prob right about the horse causing the miscarriage. this catton chick has a scary intellect!!

Just to throw a spanner in the works, I think Crosbie Wells wasn't dead when Lauderback and the two Smiths found him in the cottage.

Interesting concept but didn't think they had any hand in his murder. But if he was alive, then why keep it a secret? Don't think I've read a book before that has stirred up so much discussion. Definitely a book to read again!

It's great isn't it all this discussion? I don't think Lauderback and the Smiths did it. I think that they genuinely thought Crosbie was already dead. I think Lauderback was so upset to see Crosbie Wells' sorry state he didn't look too closely. One of the Smiths felt Crosbie's neck and it was still sweaty but he didn't investigate any further because on the face of it, it would have looked like Crosbie had died of drink within the last half hour. Why do I think Crosbie was still alive? If you look at the intro to Part Twelve, which I assume is listed in chronological order, Crosbie died after Shepard blew out his lantern. That happened around midnight, after Anna Wetherell had been put in the gaol house, by which time Lauderback was in Hokitika, in his hotel or still being interviewed by Lowenthal. (I'll have to check out which.) But where was Carver? I think he was at Crosbie Wells' cottage. He didn't return to the Godspeed until very late and he arrived at the wharf in an agitated state and roused the crew so they could sail before dawn. Tauwhare on the ridge to the south and overlooking Crosbie's cottage saw Carver arrived just before sunset, knock on the door, and walk in. This means the door must have been on the south side of the cottage, and wouldn't be seen by someone approaching it from the river to the north and the Christchurch road. I think Carver ambushed Crosbie and anaesthetized him with a laudanum-soaked cloth (like Anna Wetherell was anaesthetised when she had her miscarriage). Carver started rummaging through Crosbie's stuff and uncovered some of the gold. I think he was going to interrogate Crosbie before killing him, but he saw out the north-facing window Lauderback and the Smiths approaching so hurriedly set it up so it looked like Crosbie had died of drink. Then Carver scarpered out the door and hunkered down in the bush beyond the clearing and waited until Lauderback and the Smiths left. Then he went back into the cottage and finished the job.

Interesting comments. Now you'll understand why I want to read the book again! Would love to hear Eleanor Catton give a talk on the book and about the mysteries and questions that have arisen. Just an aside - have many men read the book?

I was very lucky to hear Eleanor Catton talk about The Luminaries in Dunedin, and how her life has been since becoming famous. She was terrific - such a lovely person and so humble. I wanted to ask her so many questions but people in the audience hadn't read it and I didn't want to hog her time. The interviewer asked her about 35 Cumberland street and wondered if people actually lived at that address and what it was like having the address of a famous bordello - there's a spa shop there now - and Eleanor Catton said, "Oh I just it made up." I guess we've got to remember it's a work of fiction when we're trying to work out its many mysteries. I'm not sure what the ratio of male readers to female would be. There were a lot of men in the audience. My husband's read it and will probably read it again. I think, though, The Luminaries will be like Moby Dick and Don Quixote - a famous book only a select few actually read. I'm on my fourth reading. It gets better each time through.

Do you find more answers to the puzzles on subsequent reads?

Lindsay wrote: "Just to throw a spanner in the works, I think Crosbie Wells wasn't dead when Lauderback and the two Smiths found him in the cottage."

What!!!!!

Hi, Merryn. I've outlined in message 45 why I think Crosbie Wells was still alive but unconscious when Lauderback's party reached his cottage. One of the things that got me thinking about this was the deed of gift that Devlin found the next day. It was singed down one side only. When Lauderback arrived at Crosbie's cottage, there was smoke coming out the chimney and the kettle was boiling. Now I use a wood-fired stove every day and I know you have to have a decent fire going to get smoke out the chimney and to boil water. If Carver chucked the deed of gift into the fire before Lauderback arrived it would have got burnt. He must have burnt it when the fire had died down after Lauderback and the Smiths had left. I'd be very interested to hear what other people think.

Jeannette wrote: "Do you find more answers to the puzzles on subsequent reads?"Yes, you do. When I got to the last page on my first read, I thought "Well, that was a great yarn, but what happened?" So I immediately started again. Second time through, still didn't know - because I read fast and carelessly, so the third time through I read it in chronological order starting with the episode with the albatrosses, and that was a real eye-opener. Lydia Wells' hypocrisy was breathtaking. Now I'm composing a time line showing what each character was doing at any particular time, and that's throwing up all sorts of clues. I guess you could say I'm more than a bit obsessive. I like to drill down deep into books. Most aren't up to such scrutiny, but The Luminaries is a gold mine.

You are truly dedicated Lindsay. Wonder if Eleanor planned her book in a similar fashion. Hope you will soon be able to reveal all! Happy reading.