Boxall's 1001 Books You Must Read Before You Die discussion

Just started Emma today and was wondering if anyone else is reading it at the same time so we can discuss it together.

I'm preparing to read it after I finish the ones I'm midway through now. I've started it a couple different times and have enjoyed it, but I keep getting sidetracked. I'm ashamed to say I haven't finished an entire Austen novel yet (sparknote-d my way through Pride and Prejudice in high school after reading a couple chapters) but as far as the movie versions I've seen, Emma is my favorite of her characters!

I finished Emma a few weeks ago and really enjoyed it.

Well as for the first few Chapters I am viewing her as being much too shallow and I do hope she surprises me later on.

Duygu wrote: "Well as for the first few Chapters I am viewing her as being much too shallow and I do hope she surprises me later on."

I believe that Jane Austen actually intended to write an unlikeable character. I think it makes her growth throughout the book a little more real.

Duygu wrote: "Well as for the first few Chapters I am viewing her as being much too shallow and I do hope she surprises me later on."

Duygu, I hated Emma LOL! Yeah, she may surprised you, but she's not Elizabeth Bennet or Elinor Dashwood, so, thoug she thinks she's perfect, in fact she's full of faults. Anyway, the story is really great and I think you will enjoyed it a lot =)

I thought Elizabeth Bennet and Elinor were boring compared to Emma... she's so much more... textured? dynamic? real? at least in my opinion. Duygu, you've seen Clueless, yes? Maybe that unfairly enhances my liking of Emma :]

Lynn wrote: "I thought Elizabeth Bennet and Elinor were boring compared to Emma... she's so much more... textured? dynamic? real? at least in my opinion. Duygu, you've seen Clueless, yes? Maybe that unfairly en..."

Lynn, maybe Elinor could seem a boring character, but certainly not Elizabeth; don't you think she's vivacious and espontaneous as well as good-mannered? Emma is, as Duygu fairly said, shallow and full of herself... I really hate the ending of this novel, and I won't say more to prevent me to spoil it for those who haven't finished it...it would be difficult to wait LOL!

While it's true that Emma is full of herself, spoiled, self-centered, etc I still always got the feeling that she meant well (at least in the movie version and from the parts I've read. I read about 1/4 of it I think). She was just naive and immature/petty. And her bumbling flaws and errors make her endearing, though at times just frustrating.

As for Elizabeth I see her as feisty and spunky. I didn't really see her as vivacious (she just doesn't really fit the term in my interpretation - although I can see how others would see her as such) but not particularly interesting... ooh, maybe I find P&P boring b/c it is so based on romantic relationships/marriage and as for Emma, b/c of her social station, she is freed from that worry of Elizabeth and Elinor which allows her to meddle in the lives of others (which I find highly entertaining, although I can see where other would find it immoral)... I hope we aren't spoiling this for people! haha.

LOL!! Maybe you and I should have this conversation away of this discussion =P we are in danger of letting slip some detailes of the story, hehe.

I don't think Emma was naive, yet I do think she was inmature. And the fact that she wasn't worried about getting married seem to be due to the fact that there were no men around who deserve her (in her mind), because when "certain young man" arrived at her town she almost consider the posibility of changing her mind, because that union would have provoked the envy of every girl nearby... I was so happy when I discovered who that man was in love with =D

As for Elizabeth... Tell me if I'm wrong: you feel the story of P&P is a little "macho one", where everything women could aspire for was getting married with a rich man. Emma looks so independent and modern, seing as she doesn't care what people say if she doesn't get married, and that fits more to your way of thinking... is that so?

I only think Emma was naive b/c she didn't pick up on certain clues/flirtations that were pretty obvious to the reader.

and the certain girl that the certain new boy in town favors - that was about where I stopped reading b/c of getting sidetracked... but she came off to me as a goody-good which didn't particularly make me like her (although I didn't hate her or anything). Oh! If you read the Ramona books - it's kinda like how there was that little girl with curls in Ramona's class and she was little miss perfect and then there was Ramona who was always getting into trouble. But Ramona was so much more interesting b/c of her flaws and easier to relate to. I relate much easier to a "screw up" than to some perfect, always sweet chick. Does that make sense? haha.

regarding P&P v. Emma: yeah I think you hit the nail on the head! I don't have anything against marriage at all, it's just refreshing to hear a female character say that it's not her whole goal in life, especially during that time.

You know, I had exactly the same feeling when I first watch S&S; for a moment, I couldn't help to think what a mediocre that goal was... but then I remembered of what century we're talking about, and I started to appreciate the stories from another point of view. I even started to think if I wasn't too feminist, hehe.

About what you say of the trouble-characters, I do like them too (I loved Harry Potter's Fred&George), and I do not like all the well-behaved characters (I got sick of Fanny Price and Edmund...they're so square and boring!). I think I am not attached to a particular behavior, but with the whole character... and some cases that character is not precisely the goody-good =)

Which Ramona books are you referring to? I haven't read them, please tell me who's the author, so I can search for them =D Thanks for the recomendation!

The Ramona books are a series of children's books by Beverly Cleary. They are wonderful! She also wrote books about Ramona's older sister Beezus and Beezus's friend Henry Huggins.

I've been enjoying this discussion about Emma, which is one of my very favorite books. A few comments.

First, I think we have to look at her in the context of the era in which she was created and in which Austen was writing. She may seen naive compared to modern young women, but I don't see her as naive in the context of the society in which she was raised and lived.

Second, she lived (and Austen wrote) in a very structured and class--centered society. She lost her mother early, and was raised by a devoted companion/governess, whose job it was to praise her more than to criticize or correct her. She was of the highest class in the local community, was raised with that ingrained into her being, and had no other social structure to compare it against. She certainly seems arrogant and spoiled by modern standards, but do those around her see her that way? It doesn't seem so to me, with one notable exception.

I don't see her, frankly, as immature. She is, indeed, remarkably mature for her age, running a major household with servants, caring for a not-easy-to-please father, carrying out her social duty of caring (not perfectly, but generally successfully) about the lower classes. And of course what was expected of her as a woman was totally different from what was expected of young men of her acquaintance, and still more totally different from what is expected (or should I better say permitted?) of modern young women.

If one tries to look at her not as a modern young woman, but as what she actually was, I think the picture of her becomes quite different. Perfect she certainly is not. But successful in the role she has been given to play in the highly structured society of her day, I think yes.

Beatrix wrote: "Duygu wrote: "Well as for the first few Chapters I am viewing her as being much too shallow and I do hope she surprises me later on."

Duygu, I hated Emma LOL! Yeah, she may surprised you, but sh..."

I've read nearly every novel (and a few letters) Jane Austen has written, and strange as this may sound, Emma Woodhouse is my favorite of all her heroines. Everyman hits the nail on the head about her, and I'll add that Emma is also -- as is usually the case with women in her station -- fairly accomplished in music, art, and literature.

Also, the romance in this book for me was the most credible out of all her books, based on real caring, similar backgrounds, and like tastes, even if there is the occasional difference of opinion. I hope I don't give anything away by saying that; there are plenty of men in the book to leave it open, I think. :)

I started reading this book about a week ago and I am only half way through, however, I love it.

Emma is the type of girl who wants to help people be happy and jet to me she seems to have given up on ever being in love and getting maarried. Does she not want to be happy?

It seems to me that the only guy that would make her happy and that she wouldn't want to live without is Mr.Knightley. They fight constantly and she somehow can't see him getting married to anyone. Does that mean she just doesnt want him to marry anyone because deep down she is in love with him but just cant say it outloud to herself?

I hope that I am right and that she realizes that Mr.Knightley is the guy for her not Frank.

I hope to finish the book by the end of the week. Hopefully i will enjoy the rest.

I'm just begining to read it, can I join in too?

Laura-jayne wrote: "I'm just begining to read it, can I join in too?"

You just did! Welcome!

Come share your insights, appreciations, dislikes, etc.

Emma is one of my least favourite of Austen books. Possibly because there is little peril.
What happens if Emma loses out on love? Nothing much, she is a little sadder and has received a well deserved slap in the face but otherwise she carries on -the spoilt, little rich girl.

Although the desperate search for a husband in Austen's other books may grate on our modern feminist sensibilities it was a serious problem. Austen's heroines faced a life of poverty, living off other people's charity with almost no money for food and shelter unless they found a man who could support them. Even if they had a kind brother providing for them an unmarried woman had no social status and garnered minimal respect.

What did surprise me was while I found Gwenyth Paltrow's Emma irritating and interfering I warmed to the Emma character in Clueless. Although she made the same mistakes she seemed more genuinely caring and less self-centred.

Everyman wrote: "I've been enjoying this discussion about Emma, which is one of my very favorite books. A few comments.
First, I think we have to look at her in the context of the era in which she was created and in which Austen was writing. She may seen naive compared to modern young women, but I don't see her as naive in the context of the society in which she was raised and lived...."

I would agree with this except that Knightley also seems to think she is being naive and careless.

For those of you who liked Emma I will strongly recommand "The Grand Sophy" by Georgette Heyer, you wouldn't regret.

"Although the desperate search for a husband in Austen's other books may grate on our modern feminist sensibilities it was a serious problem"

I disagree with this as I think that Austen generally emphasises the importance of marrying for love rather than for security. E.g. in Pride and Prejudice, Elizabeth, chooses not to marry Mr Collins as she doesn't love him even though if her father dies then she would provide a home for herself and her sisters by doing so. Her friend Charlotte does marry him purely for security but is pitied by Elizabeth. Darcy initially proposes to Elizabeth but she won't accept because she has serious doubts about his character. She only marries him when she realises that she has grown to love him. I think that if you take Austen's books within the time period that they're written in then they're way ahead of their time and you appreciate Austen's feminism.

I would agree that Emma was at first naive and careless, but I think that's why I like Emma and identify with her so much. She grows, she matures, in the course of the book. She is in a good station and is well accomplished, so she lets that color her own view of herself — she thinks she knows everything there is to know. And yet she unthinkingly does things that hurt people.

When Knightley points out her flaws and helps her to be more open and see the world and other people through their eyes, that's when she begins to grow, and I totally love her for that. She has a really great character arc.

Gemma wrote: ""Although the desperate search for a husband in Austen's other books may grate on our modern feminist sensibilities it was a serious problem"

I disagree with this as I think that Austen generally emphasises the importance of marrying for love rather than for security..."

But whether Austen's heroines want to marry for love or wealth the only one of her heroines who even considers not getting married is Emma. This option is only open to Emma because she is independently wealthy. In Austen's time most women had to hope they found love in a 'good provider'.
Lydia married for love, as silly and ridiculous as it was, but her marriage was met with general disapproval and concern because even after the scandal was quieted her husband was unreliable and unable to provide for them. They only survived through the charity of her sisters.

Emma is the only one that vocalises her thoughts about not marrying. Elizabeth refuses to marry anyone she could not love. She can't know for sure whether she will get another offer so has in effect has decided that it's better to not marry than to be secure but in an unhappy marriage.
I think with Lydia, Austen is making a point that you need time to judge what someone's character is really like or you could end up in a bad marriage which also bucks the social convention of being grateful for any offer of marriage. It seems to be quite a theme in her books of character's initially liking someone after a short amount of time and then realising over a longer amount of time that they're not such a great match for them, e.g Elizabeth's father, Marianne, Elizabeth with Wickham.

To be honest, I didn't like the book as well as some of the others... but Emma is probably one of the best developed, most realistic character in all of Austen's works. She's flawed, looks down on others and has to fall hard to learn from her mistakes. In other words, she's very human. We can all relate on some level or another.

Emma is not one of my favorites, but I do like it better than S&S.

Has anyone read Alexander McCall Smith retelling of Emma? It's quite good.