القرآن الكريم discussion

/watch?v=POGgOkPX1gM maybe this video answer your question :)

Ahsan wrote: "I just finished reading this book and I am amazed. It was a fantastically invigorating and illuminating read. But I must have a cheap knock-off version of the book because at the end of my book, th..."

There was no bibliography. That is why I could only read this book as a work of fiction. Perhaps if the author had been a bit more clearer about his sources...perhaps.

this is not fiction it's like being a christian and reading a bible and calling it a fiction story. Prophet Muhammad had told the Muslims and scribes had written what he said down. This had been copied and copied over for thousands of years and what you had wasn't the cheap knock off version. If you actually read it it talks about Allah (God). That's why it said "We" as in royal we. (Search it up). THIS IS NOT FICTION. (I'm a Muslim)

Mariama wrote: "this is not fiction it's like being a christian and reading a bible and calling it a fiction story. Prophet Muhammad had told the Muslims and scribes had written what he said down. This had been co..."

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. Since this is not fiction, why is there no citations? My thesis supervising professor says every non-fiction piece of work should come with a list of references and citations. I am confused.

One of it's references is actually the bible it self.

Ahsan wrote: "Mariama wrote: "this is not fiction it's like being a christian and reading a bible and calling it a fiction story. Prophet Muhammad had told the Muslims and scribes had written what he said down. ..."
don't you have any idea about religions? this is not a science or fiction ? this is a unique book. it doesn't follow the general concepts of books that you are discussing.

Ahsan wrote: "Mariama wrote: "this is not fiction it's like being a christian and reading a bible and calling it a fiction story. Prophet Muhammad had told the Muslims and scribes had written what he said down. ..."

there is no citation,references or validation for books of religion.believers trust it and that is all.

Alexander wrote: "One of it's references is actually the bible it self."

is like saying that the references of the New Testament is the Torah(Old Testament)...You see, they all came originaly from the same source, All Mighty God, The Creator...Unfortunaly in same cases,the man sneaked his nose where he shouldn t(for example the First Council of Nicaea, people like the pagan Emperor Constantin the Great,and those who wrote the New and Old Testament) and changed the word of God so the Cretor had to send one more Prophet with one more Scripture to clarify everything about Him and what He wants from us just like He did before...Prophet Muhammah swa and the Holly Quran

Its called FAITH Ahsan. Look it up..

Andruta wrote: "Alexander wrote: "One of it's references is actually the bible it self."

is like saying that the references of the New Testament is the Torah(Old Testament)...You see, they all came originaly fro..."

Let me ask you a question. What do you think about the path of those whom did not embrace Islam but yet believe in the one ?

It s not about what I think...Islam literrary means to subbmit to the One God...and He said in Quran that it will be a punishment for those who dont belive in all The Prophets he sent , and in all the Scriptures.

Allah guides those whom he wants and anyone with a gnats breath of faith will get into heaven. Allah knows what's in your heart and if you believe in the Prophet and the oneness of Allah then you are a Muslim whether you realise it or not. All you have to do now is take the next step and say the declaration. As a revert to Islam myself I can tell you the feeling you will get probably never be surpassed!

Andruta wrote: "It s not about what I think...Islam literrary means to subbmit to the One God...and He said in Quran that it will be a punishment for those who dont belive in all The Prophets he sent , and in all ..."

No darling. Your opinion does matter. Islam have been misunderstood over history and will always be misunderstood. Just like any other ancient book. The islam you believe in is the islam that was presented to you. Taking a muslim from a different region he will have different point of view and so on.

One of the fundamentalist ideas in islam is not to die as a Mushrik ( polytheist ).

Let's all focus on how we could avoid potential wars in the future and create harmony among all kind of humans regardless of their ideologies.

Alexander wrote: "Let's all focus on how we could avoid potential wars in the future and create harmony among all kind of humans regardless of their ideologies. Prophets he se..."

This is right. God loves all his children, regardless of religious beliefs or political views. To give unconditional love to all, like God gives to us, seems so unreachable for us. Still, we must try.

We cannot continue to tell others that they cannot return to God when they pass, just because they have alternate beliefs.

God loves everyone unconditionally.
Love always

of course He loves us all unconditionally..thats why even thr rebelious ones have what to eat and a lot of things more...and He sent the religion down with all those regulations only for our good, our benefit...God is not in need of anything but we are

Alexander..You are right, there are different opinions among muslims all over the world and some of theese different opinions became the basic of some sects, but the majority of muslims with 80% are sunni, who follow the Quran and the Sunnah( the tradition of the profet). I am also a sunni, and I convert to Islam 3 years ago. You say I belive in what was presented to me and in what was presented to 80% of the muslims. I never take smth as true until it is not given to me a proof, a verse of Quran or a Hadith. About polytheism, its the biggest sin that cant be forgiven only if the person repents and never do it again. However Allah sais clearly in Quran that in order to enter Paradise you have to belive in what He sent, avoid what is forbiden and respect the commendments

Andruta wrote: "Alexander..You are right, there are different opinions among muslims all over the world and some of theese different opinions became the basic of some sects, but the majority of muslims with 80% ar..."

Dear Andruta. With all the debates and disputes I've witnessed and few behold myself I came to the conclusion of how pointless it is to dispute the righteousness of a certain belief or a certain idea.

I advice you to consider the scientific point of view of believing. Science,proudly, discuss #Why people choose to belief

So, I guess what I am trying to clarify here is, I understand why you believe in Islam. I understand it's significance to you and to each Muslim and no one should dare to ask you to renounce or question your belief. Equally you should treat others likewise.

There is this one moral manner driven from our nature that is The golden rule :

*One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself.
*One should not treat others in ways that one would not like to be treated.

If only we would have all humans submit to that golden rule. We might then find some peace within ourselves.

I respect your belif, of course but you have to respect mine. you said that one of the refrences of Quran is the Bible and from what I understood, you mean that the Prophet swa didnt received revelation, he just ispired himself from the Bible to create Quran..that explains my first comment..the other ones...well you asked for my opinion

People will always debate over religion. This is natural. One of my favourite books (The Bible, Quran and Science) proves to many the Quran is a revelation. However others will disagree. This is the nature of the beast. Allah is most merciful. And so should we be. We all have our path to follow and when it comes down to it, we all have our own choices to make and no one but ourselves to blame if those choices are right or wrong. Peace to you all.

Andruta wrote: "I respect your belif, of course but you have to respect mine. you said that one of the refrences of Quran is the Bible and from what I understood, you mean that the Prophet swa didnt received revel..."

My sincerest apologies for my early mentioned extremely provocative statement. I have been mistaken.

sorry.

I also apologyse if you felt I didnt respect your opinions...However I am happy if you chosed to belive in One God. Its a big step and all I want to advice you is to love Him more than anything in this world. Peace!

There's no bibliography just like there's no bibliography in the Bible. And it's not meant to be a work of fiction. Saying that it is is an insult to a lot of Muslims. You could have just asked about the bibliography and not said that you think it is a work of fiction because that's rude.

Safa wrote: "There's no bibliography just like there's no bibliography in the Bible. And it's not meant to be a work of fiction. Saying that it is is an insult to a lot of Muslims. You could have just asked abo..."

If only my thesis supervisor saw it that way. All he ever says is 'reference! reference! reference!'. There is no faith in him!
In any case, I apologize to anyone who might have taken umbrage in what I said. I never meant to offend. I am sure that muslims know all the proper bibliography that they are keeping secret from others. That's their prerogative and I apologize again.

Don't be facetious Ahsan its not becoming.

Ahsan wrote: "Safa wrote: "There's no bibliography just like there's no bibliography in the Bible. And it's not meant to be a work of fiction. Saying that it is is an insult to a lot of Muslims. You could have j..."

If you seek reference then know that before the beginning is God and after all things God is. Many have come and left their legacy to share God's unconditional love. Many have tried to document what they discovered and others have added their understanding of what they have studied. Within all of their writings there is both truth and fiction.

The greatest reference you can use is yourself, should you need to reference anything at all. If you want additional references, then search out other historical documents, read and understand what thy present as well as what you read in the Bible, Qur'an or whatever.

To argue the source of the information, or lack of a bibliography or the belief of one over another may not always be beneficial, but it may not be harmful either. If we can invoke thought and cooperative discussions; if we can share our thoughts and learn from each other, then we can begin to open the door to our neighbors, our countries, our world.

God loves you all, completely and unconditionally. Love always

Sarah wrote: "Don't be facetious Ahsan its not becoming."

Typical zealous preacher.

Your comment is not relevant but thank you for taking the time to write it. However I agree with your previous comment, to treat those how you wish to be treated. Which is why I respect people of different beliefs and know that derision certainly doesn't advance one's argument.

Richard wrote: "Ahsan wrote: "Safa wrote: "There's no bibliography just like there's no bibliography in the Bible. And it's not meant to be a work of fiction. Saying that it is is an insult to a lot of Muslims. Yo..."

See now, all that someone had to say was "If you want additional references, then search out other historical documents, read and understand what thy present as well as what you read in the Bible, Qur'an or whatever."
Instead, people had to go get offended. Whether these historical documents are enough/reliable or not are different matter altogether. But they are the best answer to my question. Why was there 20 comments until someone finally put some rationality into the argument?
Although I must say you starting with the sentence"If you seek reference then know that before the beginning is God and after all things God is." adds nothing to the debate. But the following two paragraphs does.
Am I making my point clear?

Ahsan wrote: "Richard wrote: "Ahsan wrote: "Safa wrote: "There's no bibliography just like there's no bibliography in the Bible. And it's not meant to be a work of fiction. Saying that it is is an insult to a lo..."

The reason I started this way was because the greatest reference you can have that proves what has happened in the past is your own existence. You would not be here except for what has occurred in the past and that line reaches all the way back to the beginning. In order to complete the reference; before the beginning was God. God loves all his children, completely and unconditionally. All of the historical books carry that same message, over and over again.
"So simple, so simple, yet it is the nature of man to make it difficult to understand." -- Zophiel

Nicely put.

Melchizedek wrote: "The problem is that the koran was not written up until a very long time after muhammad was dead; and then it was compiled from writings on leaves, stones, bones and suchlike. Mostly it was passed d..."

What is your purpose to present this discussion? Do you seek the truth? If the truth was given to you directly I doubt that you would accept it. I have not reviewed all of your references, however I perceive them as simple "Chapter, Verse" the same as you call out in the Quran.

If you must use chapter verse, then why not use those that the teachers used? an example is Jesus, "Hate them as I hate them." Meaning that he had no hate in his heart at all, only love. To hate someone as he hated meant that you would love them as he loved them.

Understand, we are all a part of God, we are all God's children. There is so much love and caring in the world, why do we continue to focus on the differences of our lives as a negative thing?

God does not live in your books, God is all around us, God is in our hearts. We live because of God's love.

Can you remember from where you have came? Can you feel all of those that surround you to help you endure this life that you have chose? Try, clear your minds and heart and listen, listen so intensely, past the sounds of the crickets, past the sounds of the ant feet plodding across the floor, past all of that are their voices, voices that say, "God loves you, we love you all"

Let's all just ignore him. Its obvious he's just trying to cause trouble. I used to be Christian, now I am Muslim. I would never be offensive towards Christians we all have our own beliefs. If this guy wants to cause trouble by saying the Quran is fiction then ignore him. He knows what he is doing he is a troll.

I am not talking about you. The original person (Ahsan?) can't remember what he was called and I am on my mobile so can't check.

No problem at all. Like I said I respect people of all religions. Enjoy your day.

Melchizedek, I know the lessons that Jesus taught were about God's unconditional love. I know the last words he spoke from the cross, "For all of you that look upon me with hate, anger, and disgust, I love you all." these words were spoken to all those that tortured, ridiculed, and mocked him. He knew what unconditional love is. I despair on what power and corruption has done to the beauty of his teaching. It is the same for all religions. Religion seems to have forgotten God. My 4th book will address this, sorry, it will be a couple of years before you see it. God loves you all.

I must also point out that I intend to take s relook at the section of the Quran you quote in order to capture again the possible intent of the author. this may take a couple of days. I think it could lead to a good open discussion if others would like to review again and join the discussion.

Sarah wrote: "Let's all just ignore him. Its obvious he's just trying to cause trouble. I used to be Christian, now I am Muslim. I would never be offensive towards Christians we all have our own beliefs. If this..."

Please, work with people to enhance understanding. We can never change the world if we are unable to address the bias by demonstrating God's unconditional love.

Richard wrote: "I must also point out that I intend to take s relook at the section of the Quran you quote in order to capture again the possible intent of the author. this may take a couple of days. I think it c..."

The initial assessment of this section implies a reverence toward Jesus by the author. The claim is that he did not die, but ascended to heaven without having died. Even today we cannot understand the ways of the spirit or what actually occurred those last days of the physical life of Jesus. Whatever the case, I cannot see any disrespect intended in regard to his teaching.

Melchizedek wrote: "message 43 wrote : "Even today we cannot understand the ways of the spirit or what actually occurred those last days of the physical life of Jesus."

This is the entire Crux of this massive global ..."

And if I told you that so much that is recorded in the bible is simply fiction you would most likely condemn me to everlasting Hell due to my blasphemy. Either fortunately or unfortunately, that is the problem with religious text, it is full of contradictions, fables and lies.

I could tell you the truth of the birth of Jesus, but you would deny it as history has denied all of the gospels that were written except those that contain the message they intend to deliver to the people. When the message was unclear, history has taken on the task to change the information to suit themselves. This can be understood considering that it was necessary, for example, to move people away from the pagan religions to Christianity, they had to convince people that the new God they would worship had greater power than their pagan Gods. You see this in the fable of Moses and the pharaoh.

If you knew the truth you would deny it just as the Jewish leadership denied the words of Jesus and held him in contempt. Isn't it interesting, if he appeared to you again today and presented the same argument again, but this time in terms of what people do in the name of God per their religious books (All Books). that you would "crucify" him again.

How will you find the bridge between yourself and God if you cannot see God within you and all that is around you? The only thing that keeps people from God is themselves. That is what Jesus said, that is what Mohammad said. Even the Buddha said this when he said that there exist no external power that controls man's destiny (I paraphrase), but that man controls his own destiny. That control is given as a gift from God. It is called freedom of choice.

To learn, read the books to gain understanding. However, like anything you read, read it with an open mind and challenge the information presented based on a review of the author, the author's knowledge base, given the historical times, and the intent of the publication.

In one of the Gnostic Gospels their is an accounting where the teacher tells his disciples to quit their focus on the death, but instead focus on the life of Jesus. If you check closely you will see that he taught love and caring.

May each find peace and understanding in your hearts. God loves you all, unconditionally.

Melchizedek wrote: "The problem is that the koran was not written up until a very long time after muhammad was dead; and then it was compiled from writings on leaves, stones, bones and suchlike. Mostly it was passed d..."

because of your many references: Perhaps you would like to review this argument:
http://articulifidei.blogspot.com/201...

Melchizedek wrote: "Greetings again, one and all...

Richard - re : your last post (EXTRACTS BELOW) :

1] QUOTE : "And if I told you that so much that is recorded in the bible is simply fiction you would most likely c..."

First the Fable: I said the accounting of Moses and the pharaoh is a fable. If you are truly a historian, then evaluate the accounting with the same methods of any other historical writing and you will find the reason it is a fable. At that time the people followed pagan gods and religion. To convince the people to convert to Christianity it was necessary to convince the people that the "New God" of Moses was more powerful than the pagan Gods. So the fable was created on the interchange between Moses and the Pharaoh. Just read the accounting without blinders on your eyes and you will see.

Next:
If you look at the expansion of Christianity from the death of Jesus into the 4th century you can see that the influence had become so powerful that emperor Constantine converted to Christianity in order to maintain power. The assemblage of the Bible began in earnest and political modifications we began on the works in order to protect power.
By the 6th century the Christian abuse of non-Christian people was rampant. Arab power was increased under the Muslim umbrella. The influence of Jesus was strong even there so within the book of "The Women" you find a short section added that justifies the following of Jesus's teaching while promoting another justification to attack and conquer Jerusalem.

As to your map, there have been constant claims of finding Noah's Ark. That will also be proven false. The first story of a flood was the Epic of Gilgamesh. It is most likely the source for the story of Noah.

If you blind yourself with religious rhetoric you will not find truth.


Thanks again,
Whatever your beliefs, God Loves you always.

this book is not a fiction it is not a story or history it is not a speech of a human being like us but it is a speech of the God the one who create us the one who create the heavens and the earth.
look this verse in noble qur'an
[That] indeed, the Qur'an is the word of a noble Messenger. And it is not the word of a poet; little do you believe.Nor the word of a soothsayer; little do you remember.[It is] a revelation from the Lord of the worlds.And if Muhammad had made up about Us some [false] sayings,We would have seized him by the right hand;Then We would have cut from him the aorta.And there is no one of you who could prevent [Us] from him.And indeed, the Qur'an is a reminder for the righteous.And indeed, We know that among you are deniers.And indeed, it will be [a cause of] regret upon the disbelievers.And indeed, it is the truth of certainty.So exalt the name of your Lord, the Most Great. that is some verses in above in surat Al_Haqqah in the noble qur'an

Though there are many words of comfort with religious text for people who want to find God, there exists many more that stand fervently on incomplete understanding of the source of the information recorded in those books. I wouldn't argue about the message of the prophets or messengers of God. what I simply say is what was spoken then and understood now are not necessarily the same. To believe is one path, to know is another. One cannot find truth with bias in the heart and mind. God is all around you, his Angels continue to deliver his message of unconditional love to all that choose to listen. Know we are all of God, share his message of love. You can find that message in your book I did. God loves you all.

I do get concerned that I may offend someone with my comments, though I mean no disrespect for anyones belief. Freedom to choose is a gift from God, so I accept each person's belief as that. However, because I challenge the book, to debate with me you cannot use the words of the book to justify you argument as I can find words in your book or another that counter that argument. Instead I am willing to hear what you believe, and why you personally believe it, based on your independent research and experience. As I stated before, I try to understand the time of the author and their I intent. As to what I know as truth, I cannot physically prove it. I can only tell you what was spoken to me, whilst I continue to study, reflect, and write. My purpose; to share the single message of God's unconditional love for everyone, that I may teach one, who will teach another, that over the period of eternity, an infinite number of souls may be touched. You all have my deepest respect, God loves you all.

i told what our holy book said to us i believe that Islam is the best life is a test and Here after is for the rest but believe what you believe you can't understand the time of the author and their intent because this book is the speech of the god in 1400 years before so you cant find it. We know that among you are deniers.

Ďŕ Ċäwäälë wrote: "i told what our holy book said to us i believe that Islam is the best life is a test and Here after is for the rest but believe what you believe you can't understand the time of the author and thei..."

It is true that we can only speculate what happened 1400 years ago. Whether this or that happened only makes a difference in terms of who we are today. The past does not make the future, only the present has such an impact. For us, we must live the lives we have chosen for today, not the past. What we do today are the memories of tomorrow.

If you can find God's love in a book, a movie, a flowing stream, the song of a bird, to the laughter of a child, it is all the same. God's love is around us always.

Inside the Quran are words of God's love and words of hate. The same type of words exist in the Bible. If you think the words of hate are directly spoke by God, then you are mistaken.

If you could ask any two questions of God or his Angels, what questions would you ask?

If you were allowed to ask the questions and get the answer, what would you do with the answer, should you get it?

God Loves You All

How about if we didn't take the order's of our God well do you thing that he will love us wait a minute only what we can survive from the god's angry is this book Holy Qur'an understood other wise we will be punished in here after and we will gonna into a hell fire if we didn't take the Gods orders

the hell that you concern yourself with is the hell you create for yourself. in the book it tells you this, but you must not have understood it when you read it. it also has words of God's infinite and unconditional love. I make an attempt to define what that means in Transitions, A Spiritual Evolution. Are you ready to know more?

Guran is holy book that God sent for us to live in the best way and achieve the best thing that make everybody blest. of course it's not a fiction.this book is more complete than other holy book that tell us truth about past, present and future.it depend on you. believe it or not.

Maryam wrote: "Guran is holy book that God sent for us to live in the best way and achieve the best thing that make everybody blest. of course it's not a fiction.this book is more complete than other holy book t..."

How you find God is what matters. God is all around us, God's love is why we exist. God is Love, Love is God. If you find God within the testimony of the book, that is good. If you misunderstand the book and desire to contain God within it, God will not care, it will only mean you will miss out on all of God's glory that surrounds you.

If you can see and feel God in all things, imagine how great it would be. In your books King David spoke those words. When he wrote about the destruction of his enemies he was saying that if everyone could see and understand the truth and purity of God's love it would be like the total destruction of all of the evil in their hearts and only pure love would remain.

We, human kind, are not here in this world to war on and destroy each other. We are here to prosper, grow, and mature in our Love for God and each other.

If you cannot trust me then read again the Book of Abraham in your book in the area of versus 10-22 where it says that God created all, if he wanted to destroy it then God would do so. God does not need our help to destroy each other.

God Loves you, the Universe Loves you.

"So simple, so simple, but it is the nature of man to make it difficult to understand."