The Malazan Fallen discussion

Chapter Eighteen discussion thread

Tulas Shorn visits Shadowthrone and Cotillion. It appears that Tulas was the original occupant of the Throne of Shadow. If we tie this into the fact that Scabandari usurped his predecessor then that would make Tulas the one being usurped I think

‘I am of a mind to test you,’ said Tulas Shorn after a moment.
‘You want the Throne of Shadow, do you?’
‘My first rule was cut short. I have learned since—’

Tulas Shorn backs off when he sees the two Hounds of Light. He had hoped he might still have some control over the Hounds of Shadow - but the other two frighten him off. And it doesn't appear that the Hounds have any remaining loyalty to him anyway because they chase him off as well.

Still, it's disconcerting to Shadowthrone and Cotillion that the original King of Shadow wants his throne back.

Recovering, Cotillion turned on Shadowthrone. ‘Are we in trouble?’
The ruler of High House Shadow slowly collected himself back into a vaguely human shape. ‘I can’t be sure,’ he said.

Kallor reflects on two main events in his past that have contributed to him being what he is. The loss of his wife - and the loss of his horse. The question remains then - which affected him the most.

Kallor's wife committed suicide after he offered to extend her life with the Century Candles he now uses. The question arises - was it the fact that she didn't want to spend a virtual eternity with Kallor that was so unpalatable

Madness it had been. Insanity, to have flung away so much. Of what he offered her. So much, yes, of him.

- or was it because she knew how the excess of a life lived without consequence would ruin her

He knew now why she had taken her own life. To be offered everything was to be shown what she herself was capable of – the depthless reach of her potential depravity...
...She had seen, yes, just how far she might take herself . . . and had then said no.

So Kallor remains haunted by

Ghost horses run at his side. Wrist-slashed women show bloodless smiles, dancing round the rim of deadened lips.

Oh...the demon in Dragnipur was Pearl (from Gotm)

As chaos approaches, Pearl and Draconus can see an army of shapes

I do not understand,’ said Pearl. ‘How can chaos take shapes?’
‘Perhaps, friend, what we are seeing is the manifestation of what exists in all of us. Our secret love of destruction, the pleasure of annihilation, our darkest glee. ..'


Perhaps, Draconus, when each of us dies, the evil within us is torn free and rushes into the realm of Chaos. Or the evil is that which survives the longest . . .’
...‘I do not want to meet my evil self,’ said Pearl.

And we learn that the purpose of Kadaspala's tattooed bodies is to call a god into existence - and Ditch's role is to dream the god into existence

‘Soon, I make a god.’
And even now, the god dreams of justice. For, unlike Ditch, Kadaspala is indeed mad. His code struck to flesh is a code of laws. The laws from which the god shall be born.

The fact Draconus allows and even aids Kadaspala shows how desperate he is to acquire allies to defy the coming chaos.

The Trygalle Trade Guild are attacked by vampire women. It seems the town they arrive at has a defence mechanism for dealing with intruders. When strangers approach a curse is activated that turns any woman who has ever been pregnant into a

'You turned them all into Tralka Vonan. Blood Feeders.’

The curse has been set in place by the town provost - a Jaghut living in a nearby tower. The problem for the Trygalle Trade Guild is that they have three women shareholders and they have about

‘Your women will have a day or so before the curse takes effect. In that time, I suppose, they could all endeavour to become pregnant.’

I think Master Quell is happy to do all he can to get all three women pregnant before then.

Or perhaps the timely return of the Jaghut's estranged wife might help

‘He’s married to a Jaghut?’
‘Was, until he buried her, but then the yard collapsed into the sea, taking her with it. And now she’s back and I’d wager a trip’s profit she’s not in the best of moods.’

And Clip ends up possessed by the Dying god anyway. The Dying god was ensnared in the Cavern that held him. When the Tiste Andii destroyed that sanctum it released the Dying god to possess Clip's body.

We also find out that the Dying god has a duel nature - Fear and Hunger. When Bellurdan brought the skykeep through to this world he unwittingly ensnared a child god - I'm guessing somehow that the two became joined in a composite of pain and hunger - Bellurdan being the "pain" and the godling being the "hunger"

‘One day, in the sky over Bastion, a warren opened. A machine tumbled out, and down—’
She nodded. ‘Yes, we saw that machine.’
‘The one within brought with him a child god – oh, not deliberately. No, the mechanism of his sky carriage, in creating gates, in travelling from realm to realm, by its very nature cast a net, a net that captured this child god. And dragged it here.’

‘We thought we’d driven the Dying God from you – instead, we drove him deeper. By destroying the cavern realm where he dwelt.’
‘You ended his pain, Kedeviss,’ said Clip. ‘Leaving only his . . . hunger.’


The goal of the Dying god is to usurp the Redeemer - he intends to do that by first killing Rake and taking into himself all his power.

The question I now ask (because I can't remember) - is there some connection with this child god and the godling that Kadaspala is trying to bring into being in Dragnipur - seeing that if the Dying god's meeting with Rake doesn't go as planned, the new god could find itself meeting Dragnipur.

And the chapter ends with Rake leaving for some mission. He's making a rather big deal about his departure

‘This walk, along this path . . . I will take pleasure in it, my friend. Knowing that you stand here to see me off.’
And the Son of Darkness set out.

I can't answer your question about the child god because I was puzzled over that too. At first I thought most definitely they are one and the same, but the child god that Kadaspala is drawing hasn't been created yet. As far as we know?

Ah and now that I'm finally at my computer and can use tags - FOD spoiler (view spoiler)[Kadaspala was a totally mystery but now we know exactly who he is from FoD. The brother of the woman who Andarist was supposed to marry - and I remember when he blinded himself. (hide spoiler)]

Kadaspala's thoughts on the origin of gods were very interesting. Since he's insane I don't know if he's at all reliable, but I sure want to believe he is. He's a little hard to follow, but it sounds to me like it amounts to: a) some gods are ascended mortals, b) some gods are created out of nothing by natural processes, and c) some gods are created out of nothing by their worshippers.

Tulas Shorn visits Shadowthrone and Cotillion. It appears that Tulas was the original occupant of the Throne of Shadow.

I loved this part of chapter ST and cotillion,ST telling cotillion he summoned the two hounds of light and cotillion telling him if he can summon them by just wishing then he would have got a shadow queen and heard him wishing about her LOL.

Also interesting part is that Tulas shorn tells them there are
1.Hounds of dark - Deragoth
2.Hounds of shadow.
3.Hounds of light - Pallid and Lock until now.

The hounds being just natural manifestation of elemental forces there can also be hounds of fire,death water etc.also he says that they being elemental forces they cannot be controlled.

The Trygalle Trade Guild are attacked by vampire women

Another great part of this chapter was guild coming over here.Also Jula and Amby bole they are much stronger than they look the way they were able to to overcome the jaghut women looks like they how to kill jaghuts.

The goal of the Dying god is to usurp the Redeemer

Ya that's what it looks like but the question is why is he after the redeemer is it because of the imass souls which redeemer has or for another reason ?.Also rake looks like he is going after clip aka dying god which is not dying now.

The worst part in this chapter was initially when we met nimander and his group there were just too many words and no outcome from that passage.

Also Jula and Amby bole they are much stronger than they look

Sigh! Black Dog Swamp, Mott Wood! I WANT THAT STORY

Anyone else see the funny connection between Shadowthrone wishing for a gorgeous queen of shadow, and Pusts lustful obsession with the high priestess. Maybe Pust isn't as bad a representative as everyone seems to think.

That was an odd moment when they were discussing Shadowthrone wanting a queen. It didn't seem to fit with his maniacal, self obsessive and some what insubstantial personality and being.

Pust on the other hand, is just a dirty old man :)

Heh they do have their similarities. I wonder how Pust ended up as priest, do we know what his history is? He is married to a soletaken which is unusual.

Another similarity they have is that they both seem to think that someone's coming to them means that they must have summoned them.

I really can't wait for most of these story lines to conclude. I like parts of these chapters, but find them far inferior to the Darujhistan-based chapters.

The stuff with ST and Cortillion was enjoyable reprieve from Clip and crew though..

What does it really mean to be a "god"? They aren't omni-anything. Normal people can live forever and be powerful enough to kill them. I don't get it... just that they were never mortal? What does it matter?

I like my beer cold, my TV loud, and my gods flaming!