Tao Te Ching discussion

What's your favorite Translation of the Tao Te Ching? I've only read this one by Stephen Mitchell and I loved it. Wondering if people have found others that are worth picking up.

I've read several versions and I like Stephen Mitchell's best, by far. His translation is natural and easy to read - and, even better - to understand.

I like the first one I read, decades ago, translated by R.B. Blakney. It is definitely skewed for Western and Christian values, but still poetic. I think there are four different translations on my bookshelf. It's a beautiful thing.

Phoebe wrote: "I like the first one I read, decades ago, translated by R.B. Blakney. It is definitely skewed for Western and Christian values, but still poetic. I think there are four different translations on my..."

Many translations may be the best approach.

Honestly, I don't think that Western and Christian values are compatible with the Way of gnosis that is intended in the book. But I haven't read the translation you mention and I've also not had any preference for Western and Christian values, so my comment comes with that caveat.

I have read several translations. I'm a bit of a Dao De Jing junky.

It depends on what you're looking for. Mitchell did a beautiful, poetic interpretation based on his own Buddhist background. It is less a translation than a rewrite based on others translations. He is not a scholar of ancient Chinese. Nor is he a translator of ancient Hebrew, but his interpretation of others' translations is beautiful and inspiring, if not exactly true to the original. He is a wonderful poet.

My favourite translation, with a great exegesis of the text and a deep explanation of the concepts behind the text, is 'Dao De Jing: A Philosophical Translation' by Roger T. Ames & David L. Hall. If you want to really understand the Dao, read this. It is clear and is a real attempt by two philosophers and sinologists to come to terms with this much interpreted and much misunderstood ancient text. They also manage to keep the poetry at a pretty high standard too. But its not Mitchell. It's the Dao at its best.

RK-ique wrote: "Dao De Jing: A Philosophical Translation' by Roger T. Ames & David L. Hall. "

I will look at this, thanks for mentioning it.

Taoism is not buddhism, as you indicate by your comment, though they are frequently lumped together. I've always felt that taoism was more "stoic and pragmatic than buddhism and that they have different aims. So Mitchell's translation could be more "warm" and approachable (?) than the original intent?

I will look at this, thanks for mentioning it.

Taoism is not buddhism, as you indicate by your commen..."

You're correct. The Dao De Jing started out a something like a manual for bureaucrats and rulers. Hence all of the references to the good ruler, king or commander. And there are many similarities to classical stoicism.

Keep in mind that stoicism isn't necessarily "not warm" but as with Daoism, there is the concept of a flow to things that we must accept as given. The world is unfolding and we, as part of this flow, cannot expect to change or redirect the flow. What we can do is guide our own behaviour in our own part of this world in such a way as to fulfill our role in the world.

As Marcus Aurelius, Rome's stoic emperor, wrote [with my daoist interpolations] "...if a person has sensitivity and a deeper insight [ming] into the things that happen in the universe [wanwu], virtually everything, even if it be only a by-product of something else, will contribute pleasure, being, in its own way, a harmonious part of the whole [dao]."

In the Dao De Jing, Ames and Hall define: 'ming' as "acuity"; 'wanwu' as "the ten thousand things" or "the myriad things"; and, 'dao' as "way-making" (but much more complex). I have suggested that Dao is an unfolding of the whole. The 'whole' of Marcus Aurelius is not static. Our world is not static.

My take on both philosophies has been, "Go with the flow, but take your own paddle." (I should get a copyright on that.) The world unfolds as it does and we must accept what happens but we can guide our own destiny within that unfolding and according the role we have whether as ruler or ruled, hopefully to bring pleasure into the world.

I am waxing lyrical, time to go.

I've been studying the Yi Jing for over 35 years and love the Dao De Jing as well. Many in the Yi Jing and Dao De Jing communities are rather critical of Stephen Mitchell's translation, characterizing it as an inauthentic rendering of the classic. I have several versions of the Dao De Jing in my kindle library, including Stephen Mitchell's, which I sometimes quote to make a point with friends. Some translations are more poetic, some more literal, but I look at more than one when I'm attempting to understand a particular passage.

By the way, I've been told that there have been attempts by various writers to correlate specific chapters in the Dao De Jing with specific hexagrams in the Yi Ching. Has anyone seen or read such a book, and if so, I'd be interested in reading it.

Two books that I've owned multiple copies to get an idea of the translated text: Tao te Ching and Basho's Narrow Road to the Deep North. No one translation does them justice, like listening to different pianists' interpretations of Chopin. It's all a matter of what you think is the most satisfying experience in spirit or accuracy.

Lately I have been using Red Pine's 2009 edition and Sam Hamill's 2007 edition. Kaz Tanahashi wrote the calligraphy in Hamill's translation. Having attended Kaz's shodo seminars, I trust his judgment.

I like Ursula Le Guin's 1998 rendering, "Lao Tzu: Tao Te Ching:
A Book about the Way and the Power of the Way." She has studied Taoism for many decades. Consulting many scholars and translations, she uses her fresh poetic insight to create a reading that's fresh, true, and thought-provoking. I enjoy it along with other translations.

Every reader brings a personal interpretation to a text. We read the text; the text "reads" us; it is in the two-way back-and-forth that the text comes to life for us in the present moment. In struggling with the tangles and snarls we find in the reading, we may learn a new way of seeing.
Translators bring themselves into the translation. Some translations, usually called "versions" or "paraphrase," speak from the truth that came to life for the translator. More "scholarly" translations make an attempt to reach back to what the author(s) were seeing and feeling when they wrote. The traditional interpretations reflect a long history of multiple readers.
Reading multiple translations brings different aspects of the original alive. A great work like the Tao Te Ching is rich in meanings.

My favorite is U.K. LeGuin's version, because it's straightforward but self-enclosed.

What Rachel said. There is no best translation, just as there is no best interpretation of the Tao te Ching. Each translation or interpretation reflects the Tao of the person delivering the translation or interpretation. Each version is another perspective, which we can add to our own, and expand our understanding by synthesis and experience.

This is my favorite translation.

If you have a chance, you might check out this translation: Sequential Tao Te Ching.
The structure of the original Tao Te Ching is quite scrambled, which makes it hard to follow. This version, created by a Chinese author, reconstructs the text so that the chapters flow logically and are easier to read.

I’ve read Mitchell’s, and I also sampled another translation, but I found both hard to understand. I’d always heard that the Tao Te Ching is a classical Eastern text, so I expected it to read more like a record of teachings or experiences. Instead, these versions feel more like loose prose. So I’m also here looking for recommendations for other translations.

Christopher wrote: "I've been studying the Yi Jing for over 35 years and love the Dao De Jing as well. Many in the Yi Jing and Dao De Jing communities are rather critical of Stephen Mitchell's translation, characteriz..."
35 years? My goodness! You must understand Chinese by now, right? If not, it would be hard to fully grasp the hexagrams, as many of their meanings are difficult to translate into English.
The years 2026/27 are known in China as the Red Horse and Red Sheep, corresponding to the stem-branch calendar years 丙午/丁未. You should understand that, right? They typically foretell major events—often unfavorable political upheavals.
As for linking the chapters of the Tao Te Ching to the hexagrams in the I Ching, there are schools of thought in China that explore this connection. But within academic circles, there's been little substantive interpretive work produced.