SciFi and Fantasy eBook Club discussion

Happy New Year everyone. This selection is turning out to be a great selection to start out the year. I'm about half way through it at the moment and while there are a few areas where it slows down, this book is keeping me thoroughly entertained.

I really like the concept of the galaxy being splint into The Unthinking Depths, The Slow Zone, Beyond and the Transcend. It took me a bit to figure out that each were regions of space and each had different sets of physics that allowed different types of both life and technologies to exist. Very intriguing idea. I'm curious why there are the 4 types of space dividing the galaxy but then I also like that it's just what's so and left without too much detail to try and make it into a scientific reality. When they are discussing the different areas, the time scales boggle my mind a bit - the interstellar empires in the Slow Zone only lasting a couple thousand years each and then disappearing to be recreated later, the timescale in the Beyond covering eons as if they're nothing and then the Powers in the Transcend existing in time scales of a single decade.

The existence of a galactic newsnet web is fun. Since the book was written in the late '90s, I'm sure it wasn't quaint then, but it is kind of amusing. I like that even in this far future, there are still angerboys, trolls and armchair experts all over the web.

The Tines as a collective conscious are amazing. Using a pack mentality instead of a hivemind or similar as the foundation is clever and I like what Vinge has done with it. At times, they act like humans in their goals and asperations but all the details around dominant and submissive parts of the pack and adding in new members are brilliant. The trouble with packs crowding each other is interesting and the differing levels of intelligence based on the pack's physical configuration as well as size is very well done.

Overall, I'm enjoying the book so far - although it feels like a lot hasn't happened yet. It's a fascinating universe Vinge built and I'm curious where the book will end up.

Read it when it first came out in paperback - absolutely loved it. As you say great and original ideas. I've recently got it for my Kindle and plan to do a Vernor Vinge binge read in the new year.

I'm about 25% in and really enjoying it. I agree with you Geoffrey, this is an intriguing universe and I'm fascinated by the pack as individual. This is a great book to start the new year with.

looking forward to giving this a try - its been on my to read list for ages but not reading all that much at the moment so will see how I get on with it.

I can't remember if I read this one or A Deepness in the Sky.

A Deepness in the Sky

I think there are parts of this book that could have been removed without changing the overall book itself - but I thoroughly enjoyed it.

It was creative and much more original than I thought it was going to be.

Geoffrey wrote: "I think there are parts of this book that could have been removed without changing the overall book itself - but I thoroughly enjoyed it. It was creative and much more original than I thought it w..."

I agree 100%. I generally enjoyed it and thought the whole idea was an interesting one...and well thought out. (It was one of those rare moments when I appreciated being married to a physics major so I could ask for a little clarification on what the slow zones, etc were about.) But it really drug in some parts and the story would have still been a good one if it had been trimmed a bit.

Geoffrey wrote: "The existence of a galactic newsnet web is fun. Since the book was written in the late '90s, I'm sure it wasn't quaint then, but it is kind of amusing."

Geoff, this wasn't published in the late 90s but in 1991 (maybe you confuse it with the prequel's publishing date?). I installed the 30th accessible WWW-site end of 1992 (that was when we knew every single web page in the world :) ). I assume, Vinge didn't know too much about WWW but more of usenet discussions and maybe gopher. He didn't extrapolate that technology very well.
Other computer science technologies are handled awesome for the time writing as I can see from the prologue with the trojan KI god.

Well, that makes better sense - early 90's I mean. I remember back to my bbs days playing on the usenets then and their remaining existence at the end of the decade - but either way, I still find the idea of it in the book amusing given the galactic proliferation of trolls, conspiracy theorists and armchair experts ....

I'm 10% in and so far it's mindblowing:

The pack minded canines living 100s of years and their strange concepts of ultimate und single death, capabilities, madness, integration etc.

On the other hand a SECOND GRADE PERVERSION - a trojanic god-like KI...

And the different regions of nature laws...

I just started reading this for the first time, but purchased it 3 years ago. I haven't seen anyone else mention this yet, but my version has embedded links to notes Vinge kept about the book while writing it. Just wondered if anyone else had tried to follow along with them if you have those notes, too.

Personally, I've found the notes' cryptic nature not worth the time and the interruption factor, so am skipping them for now.

I didn't have notes ... But I don't think I'd follow along as I read something for the first time. Now, perhaps on a much loved novel I would ...

I just finished it and loved it. Trying to wrap my head around the zones was confusing at first but it's a cool idea. I thought he did a great job with characterization too--I really cared about the characters. I was especially fond of the Riders. I know it doesn't make sense but I could not get the picture of them looking like Tom Servo from Mystery Science Theater out of my head.

Anybody with me? No? OK, moving on...

I liked the contrast between the amazing technology of the Beyond and the medieval Tine world. I found myself feeling uncomfortable with Ravna and crew giving so much weapons technology to the Tines and I finally realized that I have been so influenced by Star Trek that I kept thinking "Don't these humans have the Prime Directive?"

I thought it dragged a little bit in the middle but the last 25% or so was so fast paced and exciting it made up for it. I'm looking forward to reading A Deepness in the Sky.

I read this last year and absolutely loved it-especially the tines with the pack mentality and their reproductive issues.
I too took a while to wrap my brain around the zones, but that only made it better.

Somebody...please help. There is a confusing section about Pham Nuwen and the Qeng Ho on page 67 and it's driving me INSANE...I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Spoiler warning below this line:

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Ok, so Pham was the son of a king right? And his explanation of how he got on board one of the three Qeng Ho ships that visited Canberra goes like this:

"Qeng Ho had invested three ships in the expedition to Canberra. They were pissed, thought we'd be at a higher level of technology. We couldn't resupply them, so two stayed behind, probably turned my poor world inside out. I left with the third - a crazy hostage deal my father thought he was putting over on them. I was lucky they didn't space me."


What is the deal with the hostage thing? I've reread this section about twenty times, and I still can't wrap my head around what actually happened that leads to Pham leaving on a Qeng Ho ship. Also, two ships are going to destroy an entire planet? I'm really enjoying the book so far, but this section is frustrating to no end. I would love to hear any and all ideas as to what actually happened here.

I'm a little surprised that I'm about 20% into this now and not really getting into it. There's stuff going on that is creative and interesting, but it's not grabbing me and making me want to learn more. Unfortunately, I think at least a bit of it is the way the version I have has...

Note 123

...links every 2nd or 3rd paragraph (links to cryptic notes the author embedded in the original text files he wrote it in) that break up the flow. I'm not bothering to follow those links, but it just adds a layer of distraction. At this point I don't know how much to blame that, versus whether I just don't care for Vinge's style, or don't feel warmed up to any of the characters yet, or what. :-(

Jeff wrote: "Somebody...please help. There is a confusing section about Pham Nuwen and the Qeng Ho on page 67 and it's driving me INSANE...I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Spoiler warning below this line:

----..."

I've read only 40% and up to now that particular situation wasn't relevant at all. It is just important that Pham was once resident of deeper levels.
There is the sequel A Deepness in the Sky focusing on Qeng Ho etc and Pham is character in it - maybe it is explained there?

I'm going to read that sequel anyways :)

Charles wrote: "I'm a little surprised that I'm about 20% into this now and not really getting into it. There's stuff going on that is creative and interesting, but it's not grabbing me and making me want to learn..."

Sounds like a "Making of..." DVD :)
I haven't got that version with the notes and I'm very glad about it, knowing how distracting that would be for me! For hardcore fans (and a re-read) this could be good stuff, though :)

Jeff wrote: "Somebody...please help. There is a confusing section about Pham Nuwen and the Qeng Ho on page 67 and it's driving me INSANE...I'd love to hear your thoughts."

I have to say that part didn't make a big impression with me. I agree the hostage reference doesn't make a lot of sense but I don't think the quote "probably turned my world inside out" necessarily refers to destroying the planet. I read that as more of a societal upheaval--aliens with high technology living on the planet.

Charles wrote: "I just started reading this for the first time, but purchased it 3 years ago. I haven't seen anyone else mention this yet, but my version has embedded links to notes Vinge kept about the book while..."

My version doesn't have those links and I'm glad. I hate that kind of stuff and I think it would be extremely distracting to read it that way.

I didn't think that it would develop to a epic story, but Vinge managed to build up tension to a furious heroic showdown.
I absolutely loved it - the concept of consciousness, the pack-minded Tines, different zones of physics and much more.

If you mind, read my review :)