Book Nook Cafe discussion

I see from your GR pages that a few of you have started our July read. So I thought I would put up the thread.

White Teeth
"White Teeth is a 2000 novel by the British author Zadie Smith. It focuses on the later lives of two wartime friends - the Bangladeshi Samad Iqbal and the Englishman Archie Jones, and their families in London. The book won multiple honors, including the 2000 James Tait Black Memorial Prize for fiction, the 2000 Whitbread Book Award in category best first novel, the Guardian First Book Award, the Commonwealth Writers First Book Prize, and the Betty Trask Award. Time Magazine included the novel in its TIME 100 Best English-language Novels from 1923 to 2005." - from Wiki

Here are Discussion Questions from Radom House
for you to think about as you read.

*** WARNING ***
Questions contain major SPOILERS

http://www.randomhouse.com/catalog/di...

In another thread we discussed the phenomenon of brand names that become generic. (scotch tape)

Well, I had to smile to myself when I read this on page 10 of WT.

"He squandered spare minutes wondering whether "Hoover" had become a generic term for vacuum cleaners or whether is was, as others have argued, just a brand name."

LOL--looks like i'm gonna like the book, Alias. Although "squandered" bothers me...surely this is IMPORTANT thinking. :-) Thanks.

deborah

Deb, wait until you see what he was in the process of trying to do, and you will understand why he lamented wasting time on trivia.

Deborah, I made decision to only re-read book club selections that I gave a top rating. White Teeth was a top rated book for me when I read it back in 7/2001. I don't recall much of the plot anymore, but I do recall that I loved Zadie Smith's facility with words.

I would also warn against anyone planning on renting the tv movie of this book. It was so horrid. It has to go down as one of the worst book to movies since the Bonfires of the Vanities.

Alias Reader wrote: "I would also warn against anyone planning on renting the tv movie of this book. It was so horrid. It has to go down as one of the worst book to movies since the Bonfires of the Vanities."

Thanks for the advance warning about the film. I wanted to see it when it was shown but decided to wait until i'd read the book. Now i'll just pass. I've got better ways to squander my time. ;-)

deborah

I have the book but only read the first few pages. Will try to make some progress with it this week instead of squandering my time watching reality TV.
lol lol

I have the book, but want to finish my current book first.

Kate

I'm not planning on re-reading this, but I'm surprised at how little I remember. Not even the comments of this group is bringing it back for me.

I started it but like Kate am going to wait a few days and make some dents in Lincoln's Melancholy.

Barbara

I am listening to White Teeth on tape so I started it early. So far, I am really liking it!!

Kim and Barbara, I'm glad to see both of you are going to read this month's selection. I value the comments from both of you! It sounds like we might get a godo discussion going! I should finish my other book today or tomorrow.

kate

I am new here and plan to read the book as well. I am picking it up today at the library...

Great Sharon!!

Welcome, Sharon ! :)

Welcome, Sharon! I am in the middle of a BFB, almost 600 pages (that IS BFB for me anymore) and have decided to put it on hold, despite wanting to know if The Heir of Redclyffe will conquer his own temptations to keep the hand of the daughter of his guardian. *sigh* No, not really.

ANYway, i'll start WT tonight!

deborah

Welcome Sharon! I'm at the Library now, and my copy has arrived. I'll get started this evening, as I don't think there's much on tv besides Michael Jackson.

There is an hour of America's Got Talent, and I do enjoy the talent portion.

Donna in Southern Maryland

Alias Reader wrote: "I don't recall much of the plot anymore, but I do recall that I loved Zadie Smith's facility with words."

I read the first section, first 100 pages or so, and am lost in the pleasure of reading Smith's prose. You are correct, Alias, her abilities with words is a marvel.

I don't think it's inappropriate to share my thoughts about the first few chapters & what they brought to mind. As Clara walks down the stairs while Archie observes, i was reminded of Marcel Duchamp's Nude Descending a Staircase http://xroads.virginia.edu/~Museum/Ar...

and the poem by X. Kennedy http://www.cs.rice.edu/~ssiyer/minstr...

which summarizes the painting wonderfully. Every time the staircase descent is mentioned in the book, my mind turns to these two previous works of art!

deborah

Bobbie57 wrote: "I started it but like Kate am going to wait a few days and make some dents in Lincoln's Melancholy."

::::picturing Barbara taking a hammer to the book::::

Sharon wrote: "I am new here and plan to read the book as well. I am picking it up today at the library..."

Welcome, Sharon!


Jan O'Cat

post #18 deborah:
I don't think it's inappropriate to share my thoughts about the first few chapters & what they brought to mind. As Clara walks down the stairs while Archie observes, i was reminded of Marcel Duchamp's Nude Descending a Staircase http://xroads.virginia.edu/~Museum/Armor...
-----------------

That looks like something from the Transformer movie. The one with all the changing robots that is a current hit with the kids.

Alias<<<..... who is obiviously art challenged.

Alias, i didn't think about that but i see what you mean. I LOVE Transformers. When our DS was young, i bought them "for him" but ended up playing around with them as much, if not more than he did. I just marveled at the brain that created them.

And yes, i watched the first Transformer movie but won't bother with the second. While neat, it isn't worth over 2 hours of my time. :-)

deborah

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mangal_P...

chapter 5 page 75

Samad said he was related to Mangal Pande. If you don't know who that is, check out this link.

I've started this, having wanted to read it since I saw Zadie Smith interviewed on Charlie Rose when WT was all the rage. I've got both the audio and HC version. I plan to mostly listen, but I find it is almost always helpful to have a copy of the print version in case I miss something due to a car whizzing by while I'm walking, or due to my mind wandering. Plus, with accents some of the names and references can be mysterious.

I'm wondering how one keeps spoiler-related posts separate on GR. On AOL I could choose to not open a post with a subject that indicated the post was farther in the book than I had read. Do we do something similar here, or is everything under the same topic?

Carol:--I'm wondering how one keeps spoiler-related posts separate on GR
==================

When you post just put the chapter and page # at the top of your post.

If you think your post is a big spoiler you may want to type "spoiler" in addition to the page and chapter.

This seems to have work well with us so far. I think having a bunch of separate threads will get too unorganized.

Alias Reader wrote: "This seems to have work well with us so far. I think having a bunch of separate threads will get too unorganized. ..."

Okay, Alias, thanks. I will see how that works. If it gets too hard to keep the posts saved as new I'll just wait until I've finished to comment.

Carol, I am listening to White Teeth too and am really enjoying it. Like you, I have a copy of the book for reference.

Interesting that several of us are listening to White Teeth instead of reading it - I am, too. I've enjoyed it, and look forward to my walks to get further along.
I had decided to re-join the discussions here since this is a book I've wanted to read for some time, but how frustrating! The month I decide to do so and actually begin the book at the right time, I am getting ready to leave (Monday) for a long trip without internet access, and won't be able to participate. I look forward to reading your thoughts when I get back, and will try to catch up.
Best wishes to everyone on this cool, pleasant 4th of July.
Sarah

Carol/Bonadie wrote: "I've started this, having wanted to read it since I saw Zadie Smith interviewed on Charlie Rose when WT was all the rage.

Carol, same here. I'd heard of the book prior to that & knew many considered it one of the best books of the year, but once i saw her on Rose, i knew i wanted to read it. GMTA!

Sarah, i know that's frustrating but you'll have the trip! LOL! And, upon your return, you can join right in with all our chatter & opinions. Enjoy your holiday.

deborah

Ack! I just finished this book and I hated it! I literally have a headache from forcing myself to get through it, but I couldn't face another day that had White Teeth in it!

I posted a no-spoiler review of it which I'll repost below for those who don't navigate around Goodreads so much. I look forward to reading the comments of those who say they're enjoying it, so that perhaps I can find some redeeming value in this book.

Here's my Goodreads review:
I wanted to like this book far more than I did. It has an interesting cast of characters and is full of incident, lots of it recognizable from real life. But despite the scope of the book the characters remain nothing more than caricatures and despite recurring motifs it was hard to find meaning in any of the varied strands of plot. Smith's tone is arch and she mocks all of her characters. By hitting all of the major themes of end of 20th century life, she seems to have intended an end-of-epoch opus, but the lack of depth of character or plot makes the book more of a collection of snapshots than a work of any insight.

Jan said: Ack! I just finished this book and I hated it! I literally have a headache from forcing myself to get through it, but I couldn't face another day that had White Teeth in it!

Oh geez, Jan, thanks. I thought it was me. "Hate" is too strong a word for my reaction, but I definately had to force myself to read, not skim, the last third of the book. I wanted to like the characters, and there were sections were I did become involved in their lives, but I thought all of the social commentary was too heavy handed. Like Jan, I look forward to reading discussion by those of you who have enjoyed this book. I must have missed something.
Kate

Well Jan and Kate -- brought this book home from the library 3 weeks ago along with Lincoln's Melancholy and Master and Commander or whatever the heck it is.
I read a few pages of White Teeth -- and while I had intended in any case to wait a bit -- I wasn't terribly thrilled with what I had read. It wasn't as if I couldn't wait to get back to it. So -- I find your comments interesting and await others.
Twenty more pages of Lincoln which I have really enjoyed.

Barbara

I'm sorry to hear that you didn't care for White Teeth. When I read it back in 2001 I gave it a top rating, and I was enjoying the re-read. I'm up to page 130.

I'm re-reading for the discussion here, but now I don't know if I should bother to continue as I guess there won't be much discussion.

Alias, several people have said they are enjoying White Teeth. I think you may get a lively discussion. I really am interested in hearing other comments, especially postiive.

Kate

I loved the first four chapters of White Teeth - loved the writing, interesting characters and how they blended together.

Not really spoiler but...

S

P

O

I

L

E

R

The next few chapters about the war were not interesting to me at all. While I understand the author needed to set up how the two friends met, I just can't wait for that section to be over with.

No big spoilers to follow - I've read to page 130


Kim, I enjoyed the war section. There were a few quotes from that part that I liked. For example,
(page # for pb edition)

p97
"You are never stronger, thought Samad as he approached the doctor, than when you land on the other side of despair."

p87
"It is a simple matter of what you will do when the chips are down, my friend. When the fat lady is singing. When the walls are fallin in, and the sky is dark, and the ground is rumbling. In that moment our actions will define us. And it makes no difference whether you are being watched by Allah, Jesus, Buddha or whether you are not. On cold days a man can see his breath, on a hot day he can't. On both occasions, the man breaths."

Throughout the war section the words fate and destiny stand out for me. And also p 86 where Samad says "we are creatures of consequence"

Jan, you found the tone of the book "arch and mocking". I would call it sarcastic humor and I found it very funny. I thought she was holding a mirror up to humanities foibles. I also thought the writing was erudite and brilliant. I took pleasure in the way she can turn a phrase. And I thought the plot was funny and interesting. What can I say, maybe it's a love it or hate it book.

Alias-

I appreciated the humor, especially in the first few chapters..

"No one gasses himself on my property. We are not licensed." That made me LOL.

"No one gasses himself on my property. We are not licensed."

I did think that was funny.

I'm 2/3s finished with the book & am eager for it to end. I still find the writing sparkling but in a long book, such as this, that same witticism/angle almost becomes annoying toward the end. And that is a pity because it still has wonderfully written expressions and descriptions.

I found myself wondering if i might like the book more had i paid more attention to what was going on in the UK back then. However, i was too wrapped up in my own family & barely even noticed what was happening in the US. There are a few things i haven't been able to figure out but most i have and can imagine they had a larger impact there. Typically, it's difficult for me to really appreciate a book when i lived through the times but in this case the perspective isn't the case, as they characters have varied ethnic backgrounds. It's this which is helping me to keep reading, not scanning.

Alias, you shared one of my favorite quotes, too, about the breathing. Good one. And i LOLed at the "We are not licensed."

deborah

Well, girls, please don't be mad at me, but I've had it with this book. I made it through 4 chapters, and could not force myself to read any more. I just didn't care what happened to any of the characters. I know some of you have given it high ratings and are really enjoying it, but it's just not my 'cuppa.' AS I've said before, thank goodness we are all different! :o)

The only thing I found interesting was Archie & what's her name's wedding was on February 14th, 1975. We got married the same day.

Smiles,
Donna in Southern Maryland

Kate said: ""Hate" is too strong a word for my reaction, but I definately had to force myself to read, not skim, the last third of the book. "

Kate, "hate" may be too strong of a word for me too. After all, I gave it two stars, not just one. Last night I was just in the reaction phase of having finally finished it.

The last half or so was the hardest as I kept waiting for it all to amount to something and it didn't.

Jan O'Cat, in my humble opinion, of course.

Barbara said: "Twenty more pages of Lincoln which I have really enjoyed. "

Barbara, I started Lincoln's Melancholy last night and so far I really like it.

Jan O'Cat

Alias said: "I'm re-reading for the discussion here, but now I don't know if I should bother to continue as I guess there won't be much discussion. "

Alias, I don't think disliking a book precludes discussion. In fact, I usually have a lot to say about book I don't like!

And I really am interested to hear what people like about this book. It certainly was a critical success when it first came out.

Jan O'Cat

Kim said: "The next few chapters about the war were not interesting to me at all. While I understand the author needed to set up how the two friends met, I just can't wait for that section to be over with."

Kim, I felt this about nearly every new section of the book. Smith dwelled too long everywhere, I thought, and not always with the result of imparting enough story to satisfy me.

Jan O'Cat

Alias said: "Jan, you found the tone of the book "arch and mocking". I would call it sarcastic humor and I found it very funny."

Alias, I thought that Smith mocked her own characters which made it hard for me to find any overriding value in them. It's a dismal view of humanity. Every character's "foibles" outweighed his or her good qualities, if any good qualities were presented at all. If all of humanity is functioning at the level of the characters in this book, I don't see much happening in the world.

I actually agree with the view that often people take on causes and beliefs for the most spurious of reasons--like meeting a girl. But if everyone's reasons are always superficial, it's kind of a half-hearted world.

Jan O'Cat

Deborah said: "I still find the writing sparkling but in a long book, such as this, that same witticism/angle almost becomes annoying toward the end."

This was part of it for me, Deborah. It was too much of the same thing and I felt it all led to nothing. Perhaps that's intended as a comment of the usual literary form, but I really needed some sort of a definite outcome to be satisfied. Otherwise it's like an anthill view of humanity: all that scurrying and back-and-forthing and for what?

Jan O'Cat

Deborah said: "I found myself wondering if i might like the book more had i paid more attention to what was going on in the UK back then. "

I thought this was part of the problem for me too. There was some universal stuff about immigrants and assimilation and the importance of the stories of our lives over generations. But a lot of the plot hinged on events specific to the U.K. in that era and a lot of the references went over my head. It didn't drastically affect my understanding of the overall story, I thought, but it did perhaps dampen my comprehension and appreciation.

Jan O'Cat

With such mixed reviews, I wondered if anyone here has read "On Beauty" by Zadie Smith.

I have On Beauty on my TBR list. JZZ from aol regarded it highly.

In 2002 I read her book

I enjoyed it, but not as much as WT.

Kim/kparksrec wrote: "Carol, I am listening to White Teeth too and am really enjoying it. Like you, I have a copy of the book for reference."

I am finding it a little hard to track the stories when I'm listening. Within a chapter she jumps to another character beginning a new activity, and when I'm listening I worry that I've skipped a track. Good thing I do have the HC handy to check, but if I'm off on a 50 minute walk I just have to go with the flow!