Beyond Reality discussion

I'll come back later when I have more time and post my own thoughts and questions, but here's a thread for those of you who have finished the book. Spoilers likely - proceed at your own risk! :)

I know most of us are still working our way through the book, but here are a few of my ramblings for those who have finished.

This is Kay's first novel, and I think it's obvious to those who have read his later works that his style has evolved quite a bit. He wrote this having just finished editing The Silmarillion, and I think Tolkein's influence is evident. That said, I think that the less-polished use of language here (compared to his other books) makes the emotions in the story much more raw and real.

I read this for the first time so very long ago that it's hard for me to be objective, especially having read it so many times, so I'm interested to hear what the rest of you think. Was it what you expected? If you're coming to this having just read Ysabel, what was it like meeting Kim and Dave as younger ordinary college students? Who were your favorite characters and why? Any predictions for the direction the next few books will take?

Just finished (again)! I agree Shel, it's clear that his style has evolved quite a bit. What I did like about The Summer Tree (and the rest of the series) is that they are more action oriented than some of his later books.

I also remember reading it the first time in the mid-80s. Loved it. There were epic fantasies, but there weren't many that involved so many women in so many different ways.

I remember being moved by the heroism of the characters, and found that to be as true this time through.

Since I read Ysabel without at first realizing just who Kim and Dave were (my memory is SO bad), it's especially fun to come back to these books and reacquaint myself with them with an eye to their future in Ysabel.

And now some random comments about this book.

I should have remembered, especially given the title, that this is the book in which Paul/Pwyll hangs on the Summer Tree for 3 nights. That is one thing I had remembered from this trilogy, but I thought it happened in the third book. It was heart-breaking when I read it decades ago, and still heartbreaking today.

I don't know if I have any favorite characters, although the Dalrei strike a chord in me. And of the 5 lifted from our world to Fionavar, I think at this point, I find Kim the most interesting and compelling, although Dave is a close second.

I agree that Kay's writing style has changed and evolved, and yet Ysabel, to me, had a similar feel. I wonder if that was on purpose.

Kay does seem to flit from light to deadly serious rather quickly and without much transition at times. I occasionally found it jarring. And he likes to hint at what is to come, sometimes with a bit of a heavy hand.

I read this trilogy when it first came out and for years, these 3 books were among my very, very favorites. Perhaps they spoke to my own inner fantasy of being whisked off to a magical world. Perhaps they touched my desire to make a difference. Perhaps they reminded me that heroes are everyday people like me, doing the best they can in difficult. Ircumstances. I worried a bit about revisiting this trilogy--I have never reread them until now. So far, the luster has not dimmed.

Agree, Kathi, that the transitions can be a bit rough, especially when compared to his later writing. As I re-read, I'm surprised at how much happens so quickly. I didn't remember Jennifer's abduction, nor that it happened so quickly. It does tend to limit the amount to which we get to know each character, but I think the quick little sketches work.

I think it is one of the first fantasies I read where the author used beauty and pathos in equal amounts. Truly, for every success, there was a cost, and main characters weren't 'safe.'

It's funny, to love a book so much and yet to have my main memories of it be heartbreakingly bittersweet. And to have those feelings renewed on this rereading as well. I often find myself aching for Kay's characters, regardless of the book.

It took me a while to get into this, plus as I was reading an actual book I kept getting an aching wrist and dropping it in my face, not good! Lol.

I really like the sound of the Dalrai and wanted Dave to stay with them. I'd remembered him from Ysabel but had forgotten Kim. I found the whole scene with Jen quite disturbing, repeated raping and torture.

I can see how his writing develops from this into Tigana etc. It almost seems like a different author at times. The evil under the mountain is a bit Tolkien now you mention it.

Considering my huge forays into fantasy when I was younger, I'm surprised I managed to bypass Kay. But then, small towns do have limited resources and interlibrary loans were not so easy then as they are now. Or perhaps I did read a volume and it's memory long relegated to an obscure shelf. Still, I did enjoy this, more than I thought I would despite my inexplicable aversion to fantasy in recent years (Except for Tolkien; perhaps it was that connection that caught me). I managed to finish it in one day; no mean feat with four children and a job. :) It's not that I didn't still love fantasy; I just couldn't immerse myself in them as I once had. I would still haul them home but they were rarely read before returning to the library. I joined this group in the hope of breakimg that cycle and it just may have worked.

It quite swept me away with all the separate lines being woven together although I do confess to almost giving up on this within the first few chapters due to a headache and some slight confusion. While the subject matter isn't the lightest, it still read like a light read; perhaps due to the fast pacing.

I fully plan on completing the trilogy and picking up more by Kay. Since it's been mentioned how much his writing style has changed, I'll be interested to see that transition myself.

I do apologize if this is choppy. The headache is still hanging around and I really should have had lights out two hours ago considering my work schedule. But I'm glad I stayed up for this one; it was worth it. Also, as I was scrolling through his other works to start checking if my library had any I could request, I was intrigued to discover that Ysabel has been on my TBR list for almost a year.

I was writing up my review last night and stopped by Kay's authorized website. They have a copy of the Afterward in the 20th anniversary edition that I thought was extremely interesting. Some of the things that I had noticed and wasn't sure about had been done deliberately (Diar's seduction, the general language style):

http://www.brightweavings.com/ggkswor...

Now that I think about it, language style makes more sense in context of his other works--he was setting out to make it more mythic. Thus also, some of the frustration from readers that characters aren't developed. To me, they mostly are, but his intention is to make them a little more timeless.

Just took a peek at the afterword link (thanks for sharing, Carol!) and there are a few bits in that are spoilers for later books, just FYI in case anyone cares about that sort of thing.

Shel wrote: "Just took a peek at the afterword link (thanks for sharing, Carol!) and there are a few bits in that are spoilers for later books, just FYI in case anyone cares about that sort of thing."

Thanks for saying that. I'll save the Afterward for... afterward! Even though this is a reread for me, I remember so little about the books that I am wary of spoilers.

Well, this wasn't precisely my cup of tea--but I'm going to continue with the trilogy, because I like finishing what I start.

With the exception of some of the truly heartbreaking moments--Paul's ordeal on the Tree, Jennifer's captivity and violation--I felt somewhat distanced from the characters. I think it's mainly to do with the register in which Kay is writing--that bombastic, epic tone. It seemed to hold everything and everyone at arm's length. ("And then Kimberly Ford spoke, and said...") Oddly, I felt less of this distancing effect in Dave's chapters--I wonder if it was simply because I had grown more accustomed to it by the time Kay got around to him?

Beth wrote: "Oddly, I felt less of this distancing effect in Dave's chapters--I wonder if it was simply because I had grown more accustomed to it by the time Kay got around to him? "

I think Kay wrote Dave's chapters in a different voice on purpose, partly to fit Dave and his personality and partly because of the Dalrai.

It doesn't happen often to me. But this novel was SO good that I turned directly to the sequel.

5 stars, 'nuff said here. More at my review :)

I'm so glad you loved it :)

I started book 2 at the weekend and haven't read the last two nights. Going to make an effort tonight as I remember the first book was hard at first.

Somehow I managed to not notice that the group was about to read this one.... I can't really say how many times I've read this trilogy (first one was very many years ago, in Swedish translation).

I agree with those that point out how much Kay's style has changed, but I still consider this one to be on the top 5 of all fantasy I've ever read. Perhaps because it was one of the very first I did read.

*going upstairs to find my copies now*

I finished it, but wont plan on going any further, I guess my issue was I just couldn't see why the students would have traveled with the wizard in the first place, and I guess I never got past that. Dave's reaction was more beleivable to me somehow.

I finished listening to The Summer Tree a couple of days ago. This was a re-read for me, but using a different format (audiobook). Just as compelling, if not more so, the second time around. Dave's storyline continues to be my favorite, and Kim comes in a close second.

Jon wrote: "Dave's storyline continues to be my favorite, and Kim comes in a close second."
(view spoiler)[ Knowing that Kim & Dave end up together, from our recent read of Ysabel, it is especially interesting to me to see their relationship during this part of the story. (hide spoiler)]

I got a late start on this one but hoping to get close to caught up soon. The beginning was pretty bad I thought. Completely agree with Maggie regarding the reaction that everyone had to being invited to a magical world by some random wizard they met at a concert. I mean on the one hand, I'd probably be up for it cause why not, but I like to think I'd be a bit more skeptical and suspicious. Their reaction seemed more like someone invited them to the beach for the weekend rather than a completely different reality that you had never even considered existed before...

He went way too heavy with the fantasy sounding names as well. Definitely make up the location names and add a few of your own creatures to the lore but it was like an info dump as soon as they arrived with absolutely no context.

I had read several of the reviews where people said they also had trouble in the beginning and got sucked into it around the half way point and I have to agree with them. I think it was about the time Paul went to the tree and part of it was because that was when I finally had some clue as to what was going on. From that point on I thought it was great and definitely plan on continuing with the series.

Dave's story line was my favorite as well. Which is kind of odd because normally the plain dwellers / shamans / barbarian type culture doesn't do much for me in fantasy books. Kay really did something great with that part though, although thinking back on it he may have done the whole Dave feeling accepted and now being part of the tribe a bit too much - I mean he was with them for less than a week I think? If even that long.

And the Jennifer scene at the end just didn't affect me like it seems to have so many other people. Yes, it was horrible, but when I compare it to some of the things I've read in other genres it just wasn't as bad as I was expecting based on how I had seen it referred to. Also I think because I never felt like I knew anything about her. She was the pretty one is about all I recall.

Still though, well worth reading and I'm curious to see where the story goes (aside from the aprt we already know from Ysabel of course).