The Malazan Fallen discussion

Discuss Chapter 5 only. Please make liberal use of spoiler tags when discussing other books/series-wide implications.

Ok – this chapter we start getting a couple of answers – or rather glimpses of answers, to some of the questions that we have.

Question - what did Icarium do exactly when he cut his wrists and bled raw power
From the end of RG
I built this machine. This place that will forge my beginning. No longer outside the world. No longer outside time itself. Give me this, wounded or not, give me this. If K’rul can, why not me?
All that poured from his wrists flared incandescent. And Icarium walked into the white.

According to Bottle

Bottle was nodding. ‘That’s the real reason Fid was so reluctant. His reading fed into what Icarium made here all those months back.’
‘Made?’ Ebron demanded. ‘Made what?...’

... I think what we’re dealing with here is the imposition of a new pattern on to the old, familiar one.’
‘Pattern? What pattern?’
‘The warrens. That pattern...’

... ‘You’re saying Icarium went and made a new set of warrens?’
... this new pattern is young, the blood still fresh—’
‘Blood?’ demanded Ebron. ‘What blood?’
‘Icarium’s blood,’ Bottle said.

So Icarium created a new set of warrens, interposed over the old. But the new set of warrens is broken according to Quick Ben

Someone drew a knife and carved a new pattern here. New, and yet ancient beyond belief. There was an attempt at a reawakening, but what awoke was broken.’
‘And do you know who that “someone” might have been?’ King Tehol asked.
‘Icarium Lifestealer...

If we go back to Icarium’s thoughts in RG we realise he knew what he would create would be broken – or “wounded”

Give me this, wounded or not, give me this.

Did he mean the machine under Letheras was broken? Or did he mean his mind was broken. Or did he mean the warren system he created would be wounded? Or is it a bit of everything?

The result of this imposition of new/broken warrens is that when Fid did the reading he poked the wound releasing power and muddying, at least temporarily, the magical waters to the point that none of the warrens are working right around Letheras and the Malazans need to get out o the area to let things settle down

‘Well, we might as well eat and drink,’ said Ebron, ‘while we discuss the miserable extinction of sorcery and the beginning of our soon-to-be-useless lives.’

‘Most wounds heal themselves, over time, Highness. I expect that will begin... as soon as we Malazans get the Hood out of here. The reading gave that wound a sharp poke. Blood flowed out, and in this instance, blood is power.’

The scary thing is that Sinn seems to think she can fix the broken warren system and use it exclusively.

‘We can’t just play with this stuff, Sinn.’
‘Why not? No one else is.’
‘Because it’s broken, that’s why. It doesn’t feel right at all—these new warrens, they feel wrong, Sinn. The pattern is broken.’
They halted just outside the tower’s now gaping doorway and its seemingly lifeless wasp nest. She faced him, eyes bright. ‘So let’s fix it.’
He stared at her. ‘How?’

Grub and Sinn go into the previously dead Azath to find it is not so dead as it used to be. It appears as if it has hooked somehow into Icarium’s blood flow – I’m guessing from...

They climbed to the empty chamber that had once been the nexus of the Azath’s power.
It was empty no longer.
Blood-red threads sizzled within, forming a knotted, chaotic web that spanned the entire chamber. The air tasted metallic, bitter.
They stood side by side at the threshold.
‘It uses what it finds,’ Sinn whispered.


The other question has been - Where exactly is Tavore taking the Bonehunters and what exactly are they supposed to be doing when they get there? Nobody seems to know except Tavore and possibly Fid and Quick Ben

We get to know where ie Kolanse which is somewhere East on the other side of the Wastelands

...they’re not going to the Wastelands, my Queen, they’re going to Kolanse. They’re just passing through the Wastelands since they no longer have the transports to get to Kolanse by sea. Nor have we the ships to accommodate them, alas.’
‘What do they seek in Kolanse?’ Brys asked.
Tehol shrugged. ‘How should I know?

So though we know where, we still don’t know exactly why.

But we do get an idea of what is waiting at the end of that journey

‘The Crippled God came down in pieces. Everyone knows that. Most of him, it’s said, fell on Korel, which is what gave that continent its other name: Fist. Other bits fell... elsewhere. Despite the damage done to Korel, that was not where the true heart of the god landed. No, it spun away from the rest of him. It found its very own continent...’
‘Kolanse,’ said Keneb. ‘It landed in Kolanse.’

So the heart of the Crippled god is on Kolanse. And what is more intriguing is that the Forkrul Assail are sitting right on top of it siphoning power from the heart to power up a Gate into the FA warren of Ahkrast Korvalain allowing the FA to unleash the destructive poower of their warren in the name of "justice"

‘Kolanse has been usurped,’ said Tavore. ‘Not in the name of the Crippled God, but in the name of justice. Justice of a most terrible kind.’
Quick Ben said, ‘Ahkrast Korvalain...’

...‘The Elder Warren, Fist,’ said the Adjunct, ‘of the Forkrul Assail.’
‘They are preparing the gate,’ Quick Ben said, ‘and for that, they need lots of blood. Lots.’

... Quick Ben’s grin was feral. ‘They’re sitting right on top of him.’

And we already know that the FA version of justice is peace/order by total annihilation. But the gods have no intention of just allowing the FA to control the heart of the CG – they all want a piece of the pie – they all want to siphon that power off for themselves – this has all the makings of one messy convergence

‘They will chain him again. This time it will be absolute, and once chained, they will suck everything out of him—like bloodflies—’
‘Are the gods united on this?’
‘Of course not—excuse me, Adjunct. Rather, the gods are never united, even when in agreement. Betrayals are virtually guaranteed



But Tavore has no intention of being a pawn of the gods – she has no interest in realising their goals...so the question then is...

‘So,’ said Keneb through clenched teeth, ‘we are marching to where the gods are converging. Gods that intend to chain the Crippled God one final time. But we refuse to be anyone’s weapon. If that is so, then what in Hood’s name will we be doing there?’

Quick Ben gives a rather helpful answer

‘I think,’ Quick Ben croaked, ‘we will have the answer to that when we get there.’

Thanks Quick – you are an encyclopaedia of revelation.

And then there are questions regarding Shadowthrone’s involvement – there’s a suggestion that Shadowthrone, though far from the most powerful of the gods – is perhaps the smartest of them all, having travelled the Azath more extensively than any other ascendants – and that perhaps that both gods and mortals are all dancing to his tune

‘The once Emperor of the Malazan Empire,’ cut in Keneb.
Quick Ben scowled. ‘Aye, even back then—and it’s not easy to admit this—he was a wily bastard. The times I thought I’d worked round him, beat him clean, it turned out he had been playing me all along. He was the ruler of shadows long before he even ascended to that title.

And what is Shadowthrone’s end game. Quick has a couple of guesses

‘I would hear those guesses,’ the Adjunct said.
‘The pantheon comes crashing down—and what emerges from the dust and ashes is almost unrecognizable. The same for sorcery—the warrens—the realm of K’rul. All fundamentally changed.’
‘Yet, one assumes, at the pinnacle... Shadowthrone and Cotillion.’
‘A safe assumption,’

So guess number one is that Shadowthrone is pushing all the gods into a conflagration that would see the end of the warren system as it stands – gods dying, entire warrens collapsing, and last man standing ie Shadowthrone and Cotillion - takes all.

Or

‘Perhaps,’ said Tavore with a certain remorselessness, ‘it is not Shadowthrone’s intent to reshape anything. Rather, to end it once and for all. To wipe the world clean.’

Whatever it is it has something to do with the gates

‘It comes down to gates,’ Quick Ben muttered. ‘I don’t know how, or even why, but my gut tells me it comes down to gates. Kurald Emurlahn, Kurald Galain, Starvald Demelain—the old ones—and the Azath. No one has plumbed the secrets of the Houses as they have, not even Gothos.

And we at least get one of the objectives of this current campaign – ie to destroy the FA gate

I suspect, Shadowthrone will be most pleased when we strike for Kolanse, when we set out to destroy that unholy gate.’

I can’t help thinking though – if the FA want lots of blood then they will probably get it.


With all this heavy stuff, I for one am glad Erikson broke it up with some comic relief from Tehol’s court and from Kisswhere and Sinter organising for Captain Kindly to get cursed with cross-eyes from one Nep Furrow in exchange for a “nikked” massage from Kisswhere. I think he’s hoping for his massage to have a happy ending.

That is one excellent breakdown, David!

Thank you and Thank you too

Thank you for this, it made my very vague understanding of what Icarium did, and what the F/A are doing, much clearer.
Well, as clear as can be achieved at this point anyway.
I'm not supposed to feel sorry for the Crippled God, am I? With everyone trying to use his heart? Because I don't want to feel sorry for the CG. Just no.

Linette wrote: "Thank you for this, it made my very vague understanding of what Icarium did, and what the F/A are doing, much clearer."

I think a lot of it was pretty vague anyway before this chapter - and a there still a lot left that's vague :)

Brilliant summary David as always.

This chapter was awesome got finally some answers as to what is the end game.

So Icarium created a new set of warrens, interposed over the old

So we have a new Krul, but will the new warrens be powered by omotose phellack because krul although he gave his arteries the blood which flows through the warrens is dragon blood, but here icarium i think has given his veins as well as his blood to create these new warrens so will their basic source of power as icarium is a jhag and his warren is omotose phellack.

It appears as if it has hooked somehow into Icarium’s blood flow

But isn't this something different from Azath we have known previously because Azath are basically created to impose order on magical entities so that they do not tear the system apart by using too much of it, but this azath seems to be behaving in a completely different way.

Most of him, it’s said, fell on Korel, which is what gave that continent its other name: Fist

Well as i am simultaneously reading Stonewielder this is making sense to me.

I can’t help thinking though – if the FA want lots of blood then they will probably get it.

But what kind of blood they want ? because as we know they require dragon blood to make a gate.

Also QB said to Tehol that there are three tiste warrens one of them is sealed and two are en-roached over.I think the sealed one is Tise lioasion and we know one of the en-roached is Tiste edur warren of shadow but how come kurald galain is en-roached??.Is this book going parallel with events from TTH because from that we know that dying god wanted kurald galain throne for himself.

Sumant wrote: "because krul although he gave his arteries the blood which flows through the warrens is dragon blood"

No, I believe the warrens have been described as both the blood and arteries of K'rul. Only the gates are made of dragon's blood. The idea here is that dragon blood is corrosive to the warrens and spilled dragon blood eats holes into the walls of the warrens - which is why it is used to make the gates. Part of the reason Kurald Emurlahn shattered was because dragon blood had been spilled in the warren, eating holes in it and thereby compromising the integrity of the warren. Dragons were involved in shaping the warrens into a usable/accessible form but only the gates are made from actual dragon blood - I think.

Sumant wrote: " as icarium is a jhag and his warren is omotose phellack."

Icarium is only half Jaghut - and I don't think we have seen him specifically use Omphtose Phellack from memory. As Omphtose Phellack is the Jaghut racial warren I'm not sure if half Jaghut have access. If they did it would mean the warren was partially usurped by the other half race and I'm not sure that idea has been presented.

Sumant wrote: "I think the sealed one is Tise lioasion and we know one of the en-roached is Tiste edur warren of shadow but how come kurald galain is en-roached??"

If we go to the passage

The Tiste warrens—and there are three that we know of—are all Elder. Two of them, by the way, are no longer ruled by the Tiste. One is virtually sealed. The other has been usurped.’

So the two that are no longer ruled by the Tiste are Emurlahn(Shadow) and Galain(Dark).

Shadowthrone has usurped Emurlahn - even though the Tiste Edur still have access to the power of Emurlahn they do not live in the realm of Emurlahn.

Likewise the Tiste Andii can access the power of Kurald Galain - but they do not live in the realm of Galain - Kurald Galain is virtually sealed because the gate exists inside Dragnipur - if we assume Dragnipur's breaking and Mother Dark's return hasn't happened quite yet so far in this book.

And we know from HoC that the Tiste Liosan are still living within Kurald Liosan.

Thanks for making the connection between fighting "justice" and taking on the FA. We've seen the FA desire for justice before so it should have been clearer, and it's one of those things where I wonder why Erikson couldn't simply have one of the dumber people in the conversation draw the connection for himself, and come out and say it, so the rest of us dummies could get it too.

Especially with the Itkovian part of the story, there is an emphasis in these books on the difference between justice and mercy. One of the characters in the meeting says, "So we're supposed to be fighting for injustice?". To put it positively, on a broader level, they are supposed to be fighting for mercy.

Think what makes the Malazan military different, also reflected on by Brys in this chapter. They don't simply follow rules (justice). Instead they tend to think and act for themselves and thus will sometimes do things that are shocking and unexpected, but right (mercy?).

So should you feel sorry for the CG? Probably not. But what would Itkovian do with the CG, if he could?

Duffy wrote: "So should you feel sorry for the CG? Probably not. But what would Itkovian do with the CG, if he could? "

That's a very insightful point.

Duffy, I like that mercy vs. justice. Reminds me of that Bible tale about Solomon with the baby who had 2 women claim it was hers.

My first read I completely missed that Icarium had created a new pattern out of his blood. This chapter was so intense for me this time!

Also, I'm reminded of The Snake, escaping from somewhere, and it was noted that someone very white and bony had been giving orders that everyone obeyed. Why? I immediately recognized this someone to be FA. So The Snake are all the children who left and now are crossing west thru wasteland. And know very very bad things are happening in the east. This is where the Bridgeburners are heading. The battle isn't really with TCG but with the FA. Terrifying!

See I love these chapters. It makes me dread the alternate ones. This makes two books in a row like this now.

I kind of wish if the stuff in the alternate chapters is so important to the storyline that he mixed them together rather than grouping them up. Then I could only dread certain sections of each chapter instead of my whole night's worth of reading!

Stuff like this is what prevents me from giving any of his books 5 stars though.

----

Tehol continues to crack me up. And man..I love Quick Ben. I know I've said it before, but whoever gave me the title of Quick Ben when we started this read (OVER A YEAR AGO!?!) chose well.

I actually think I followed along pretty well with this chapter for once. There weren't any big OH, that's what was happening moments from reading David's summary post.

I'm not big on speculation, and I don't have any real idea on what's going to happen but I think David summed it nicely with:

"this has all the makings of one messy convergence"

I agree with you David. That was an intense chapter and it had some great fun moments to lighten it up.

Lt Pores is a fav of mine and his relationship with Cpt. Kindly is brilliant and I am looking forward to reading more on these two.

Should either of you one day achieve higher rank - say, captain - you too will learn the art of stating the obvious. In the meantime, you are stuck with the absurd requirement of answering stupid questions with honest answers, all the while keeping a straight face. You will need to do a lot of this with me.'

Stuff like this just cracks me up.

When Brys was discussing with Tehol about where the Malazan's were going to, they talked about shipping,

they're going to Kolanse. They're just passing through the Wastelands since they no longer have the transports to get to Kolanse by sea. Nor have we the ships to accommodate them, alas.'

Given that Tavore knew this was their destination when she landed, I still do not know why they had to burn their boats. Surely they could have dropped the troops off, sailed short handed with Shurq and the other ships to Letharii, conquered, boarded and sailed to Kolanse. It is almost as if she has to to cross the wastelands.

I liked this discussion between Brys and Janath, I think it describes the Malazan army very well.

'There exists an exchange of trust between the ruler and the ruled. Abuse that from either direction and all mutual agreements are nullified.'

I liked that discussion as well. The part they are missing is that the more noble Malazan's draw a distinction between the ruler and the Empire. So Kalam can decide to kill Laseen in the service of the Empire. I think that's a notion that's still alien to Brys and Janath.

Icarium playing K'rul. Wow, what is he? And I wonder if this is part of the Nameless Ones' plan or whether it's a surprise for them too.

And this isn't the first time I've felt pushed to sympathy for the Crippled God, just for a moment at least.

Awesome explanation there from David. Really informative breakdown of the information in this chapter about Icarium's new warrens and the Forkrul Assail's role in the story.