The Malazan Fallen discussion

Discuss Chapter 6 only. Please make liberal use of spoiler tags when discussing other books/series-wide implications.

The Khundryl Burned tears are eventually pushed too far by the Bolkando who have been leeching off the war party – The Khundryl presence in Bolkando territory has generated an industry as scrupulous merchants exact excessive, special prices, that apply only to their supposed guests. Violence erupts contrary to Warleader Gall’s wishes – the Khundryl are relying on the Bolkando for supplies - but his men can only be pushed so far – and once the violence starts there is nothing for it but for Gall to take his Khundryl and go for the throat – finishing what his men have started.

And the Perish Grey Helms see through the Bolkando’s duplicity, realising that they intended to ambush them all along. The Bolkando it seems have bitten off more than they can chew.
The Perish Mortal Sword and Shield Anvil also discuss the need for replacing the Destriant. I’m thinking Setoc AKA Stayandi AKA wolf girl may be a good candidate.

And Twilight, back on the mainland finds herself not only in charge of the Shake, but also everyone else who joined the evacuation of the prison Island. With ten thousand plus mouths to feed and resettle Twilight plans a radical path. Her being royal gives her some sort of access to what is referred to as the “Road to Gallan.”

‘What you going t’do, Queenie? Nafore everone dies?’
She did not hesitate. ‘We must journey. But not on the mortal path.’
Could two ancient women be shocked?
Seemed they could.
‘By my Royal Blood,’ Twilight said, ‘I will open the Road to Gallan.’ She stared down at the witches, their gaping mouths, their wide eyes. ‘To the Dark Shore. I am taking us home.’


Bearing in mind that the Shake are at least part Tiste Andii – what exactly is this “path” or this “Dark Shore?” It’s obviously not a “mortal path” so maybe it’s some sort of warren travel or realm? And what does she mean “By my Royal Blood” – does she need her literal blood to open a portal?

Ok – now for the really interesting stuff – The seven Letherii exiles come across a giant structure that looks like a mountain carved into the shape of a dragon. The structure appears to have some sort of sorcery at work with dust rings orbiting around the structure – reminding me of the gas rings and moons around Saturn. The group conclude that the structure is actually a city and after digging about they find an entry that goes down below the structure where we then come across dead K’Chain Chemalle – so I’m assuming this is a dead or abandoned K’Chain nest like we saw earlier in the book.

Crowded with reptilian corpses. Rotting, reeking, in pools of thick ichor and rank blood. Twenty, perhaps more.
K’Chain Che’Malle. The makers of this city.
Each one throat-cut. Executed like goats on an altar.


But that’s not the real interesting part. Accompanying the seven Letherii is an eighth unseen “observer.” The observer doesn’t know how he got there but just happened to find itself in the company of the exiles and he assumes that he must be a ghost because nobody appears to be aware of him. But the observer is somewhat confused because if he is a ghost, then how come he still experiences time as though he were still alive –

And yet, by all manner of reason, should he not be the one to have found time compacted, condensed to a thing of ephemeral ease? Why then the torture in his soul? The exhaustion? This fevered sense of crawling along every increment inside each of these bodies, one after another, round and round and round? When he first awoke among them, he had felt himself blessed. Now he felt trapped.

The ghost also then comes to some sort of revelation. That what he is witnessing about these seven is not the reality. For one, the ghost notices that the seven keep pulling equipment out there arses

Everyone lit lanterns. Watching this, the ghost found himself frightened yet again. As with all the other accoutrements; as with the sudden appearance of the shovel, he was missing essential details—they could not simply veer into existence as needed, after all. Reality didn’t work that way.

The ghost begins to doubt his cognitive faculties. Which is a problem for us readers because we are seeing exactly the same thing

The real world, he comprehended with a shock, was not what he saw, not what he interacted with instant by instant. The real world was unknowable.

It was at this point that the penny dropped in my sluggish brain. Something I had forgotten. Which was - Didn’t Rautos die in Reaper’s Gale? So I went back to RG to when we last see Rautos and this is what I get

From RG

The white fire enveloped him.
And sucked out from his mind every memory he possessed.
The thing that died there a short time later was not Rautos Hivanar.
The vast web’s pulsing lasted but a half-dozen heartbeats. The shifting of the pieces of the machine, with all the destruction that entailed, was even more short-lived. Yet, in that time, all who were devoured by the white fire emptied their lives into it. Every memory, from the pain of birth to the last moment of death.
The machine, alas, was indeed broken.
As the echoes of groaning stone and metal slowly faded, the web flickered, then vanished. And now, dust warred with the smoke in the air above Letheras.

So this is from when Icarium opened his veins and activated his machine – when (as we now know) he created a new set of warrens. And seeing this now we can probably conclude that the new warrens are broken because the machine was broken. But the real point is, Rautos and anyone who had contact with Icarium’s sorcery had their memories sucked out of them. Taxilian also died in this conflagration

All that poured from his wrists flared incandescent. And Icarium walked into the white.
Taxilian was thrown back as the liquid fire exploded outward. A moment of surprise, before he was incinerated.

But from the other passage we can also assume his memories were sucked from him. I don’t know who the other five are – the point is – these seven are the memories of the people who came in direct contact with Icarium’s white sorcery. Memories that were sucked into Icarium’s sorcery. And we also have the fact that Icarium has an issue with memory. How the hell I missed all this the first time round I don’t know – but I was set to miss it again because I was totally uninterested in these guys again – until now.

The other interesting thing is what one of the “memories” is carrying

Breath’s cloak of sewn pockets, each pocket carrying a Tile?
I now find this interesting because Tiles and cards are associated with holds and warrens. And Icarium created a new set of warrens with the same sorcery which sucked out these memories.

So my question now is, what state do these “memories” exist in now? Are they walking in a dream world? But they appear to be in the same “wasteland” as everyone else. And we have seen one other K’Chain nest around these parts? And the ghost figure appears to recognise the city and seems eager to enter.

What does it all mean? No answers from me today – just a whole heap of new questions.

This part confused the hell out of me first time, I couldn't even remember who some of these people were this read so thanks for the reminder who Rautos was, and couldn't remember that Taxilian had died. He I do remember - the slave translator stuck with our favorite Tarthenol and witch on the boat. Who were the others - Breath, etc.

So the first time I thought that this is still Icarium but a schizoid one, with all these people in his mind, and the ghost is the elusive remnant of Icarium himself. The point that these are memories of real people doesn't dispute that, but makes it far more interesting. I don't know how I had missed all the props miraculously appearing, probably because I was too damn confused about too many other things. This read, I was amused by the ease of reality confirming to our needs, in a dreamlike quality, how objects and such appear when you think it, and as I think more the dream is a nice analogy because when we dream we are all these difference characters but our subconscious still retains somewhat the consciousness of "me" who is the observer.

Again, reading about Lether and a civilization run only by economics is a sad sad study. Twilight observes how they think nothing of the future or their children, but just plunder and destroy everything all around them for the mighty dollar. Then we have that ruin of hundreds of thousands of years ago, where the etched faces are gone, reminding us that all these kingdoms come and go and are nothing to the gods and those who basically live forever.

This is my first time through DoD, and I found the stuff with the seven to be extremely confusing, to the point of being practically impenetrable. David's summary makes me a bit more interested now, but I sure wish Erikson would throw the ordinary reader a bone here.

I'm so glad I wasn't and still am the only one befuddled!

Duffy wrote: "but I sure wish Erikson would throw the ordinary reader a bone here. "

Well there is a bone in there - it's just disguised as a bit of random bone.
I'm going to throw in said bone in a quote from the prologue - but I'll bury it in spoiler tags. I'm only quoting not explaining - Dig at your own peril :)

(view spoiler)[ "Skin of dusty green, tusks framing its mouth. Carrying a sword but otherwise naked. A lone wanderer, who spoke in seven voices, who knew himself by seven names. He was many, but he was one. They were all lost, and so was he." (hide spoiler)]

In my opinion - you'll enjoy the Letherii exile sections a lot better if you look at the quote - but it's up to you. And it's not really a spoiler because Erikson has handed the answer on a plate up front - it's just the plate didn't look very interesting at the time and so gets forgotten. Lol - oh the irony - which you'll only get by clicking :)

Edit - Yes...I know I'm a bastard.

I did connect that part of the prologue with the ghost and his 7 friends, but I still didn't really understand what was going on. Still don't but I'm assuming it's one entity with 7 people in its head...or something. Probably Icarium...but as a first time reader, what do I know, haha. :)

Oh! I didn't realize Duffy didn't know who it is! I don't think it's a spoiler since we have been told...
I wonder who is following him and who used a spear? Did Trull?

Well I enjoyed half of this chapter..So that's an improvement I guess.

Did anyone else picture Chancellor Rava and Conquestor Avalt to be twirling their mustaches while they spoke?

I really found them to be over the top bad guys. Almost like Mr. Erikson was like:

"OK, so I need to introduce some bad guys, but don't have much room to spend on character development. How about a scene where the two of them talk about how they are going to betray and backstab EVERYBODY and pat themselves on the back for how smart they are?"

I definitely enjoyed it when The Mortal Sword saw completely through their bullshit though, so I guess mission accomplished?

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David Sven wrote: "but I was set to miss it again because I was totally uninterested in these guys again – until now."

Yeah. I agree with the uninterested. I was kind of hoping the Ghost was Trull though. Especially with all that spear stuff. So thanks for RUINING that with your logic and quotations..jerk!

I have no recollection of how they might be related to the prologue, and I'm not about to click on the spoilerly quote to find out..again..jerk!

It's not really spoiler if it's in a previous chapter!

Lori (Hellian) wrote: "It's not really spoiler if it's in a previous chapter!"

Yeah, well maybe I've just beaten David over the head for his spoilers the last year or so that he's just paranoid...but I'm still not clicking on it. ^_^

:)

I spoiler tagged it just for you Rob - call it payback :)

In the prologue, it was clear to me that the seven were simply different souls all trapped together. And yeah, the green skin made it a Jhagut, or maybe Icarium. And I definitely don't mind the spoiler that it is, in some sense, Icarium. But, of course, that raises a deeper question of identity. If this is Icarium, then what makes something Icarium. Green skin and a sword? That's a much harder thing to grasp.

On the plus side, the chaos of these seven joined together as one gives some insight into what sort of strength Quick Ben must have to hold himself together with seven souls all in him at once. Let's face it, Karsa simply had some souls tagging along on chains behind him, and then the two trapped in his sword, and that has at times proved difficult for him.

I think we are meant to view these specifically as memories rather than souls - but I'm only going on Erikson's specific reference to "memories" in RG as opposed to "soul" or "spirit" so I'm not sure if he's trying to make a meaningful distinction between memory and soul.

Yes I think of it as Icarium, who doesnt have memory, floating under the other memories. Perhaps memories play a part in stronger consciousness. Which is sad because he was on the verge of something - enough to know Spit Hair was a false companion that he needed to get away from, and a recognition of his machine.

From his own point of view in the prologue:

"He was not alone. Indeed, He had no memory of ever having been alone. The notion was impossible, in fact, and that much he understood. As far as he could tell, he was incorporeal, and possessed of the quaint privilege of being able to move from one companion to another almost at will."

and then from the POV of some hungry cape moths:

"A lone wanderer, who spoke in seven voices, who knew himself by seven names. He was many, but he was one. The were all lost, and so was he."

From these two passages, I wouldn't lean too heavily on there being a sharp distinction between a "soul" and a coherent set of "memories".

The Khundryl burned tears part and grey helms part was good in this chapter, the 7 wanderers was really hard to get i literally dozed off reading it :(.

For the record, I completely forgot these characters were dead too, and by completely I mean there was no way I'd remember unless Erikson said it straight out.

Dear Lord, I would have been totally lost here if not for this discussion. I wasn't necessarily bored by the Taxilian part - I knew Erikson included it for a reason and it shouldn't be overlooked - but I wasn't exactly interested. Now I am because I have a slight grasp of what's going on.

Also Krughava basically dropped the mic with the Bolkando Chancellor and Conquestor. I loved it.