THE Group for Authors! discussion

Did the goodreads stop showing who entered your giveaways? If they did they seem much less useful to an author.

Hi Joseph, this is a recent change in the giveaway page. We've done this in an attempt to protect member privacy, as authors aren't meant to contact anyone except the winners of their giveaways. Sorry for any inconvenience.

Aaron wrote: "Hi Joseph, this is a recent change in the giveaway page. We've done this in an attempt to protect member privacy, as authors aren't meant to contact anyone except the winners of their giveaways. So..."

Good attempt, but can't authors get pretty much the same list by looking at the people who put the books on their "to read" shelves unless they were careful enough to uncheck the box that puts the book on the shelf automatically?

Well, that is already publicly available information to anyone, and isn't necessarily linked to the giveaway. Hiding the giveaway list just prevents authors from using giveaway entries as direct marketing.

Fair enough. The old lists must have taken up a lot of space. The pages look much better now.

Aaron wrote: "Hi Joseph, this is a recent change in the giveaway page. We've done this in an attempt to protect member privacy, as authors aren't meant to contact anyone except the winners of their giveaways. So..."

Oh, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you...

I'm not sure how that list was ever useful for authors anyway since they were never supposed to contact non-winning entrants (I'm assuming they still get to know how many people entered but just not "who").

Now if it wouldn't default to putting the book on your to-read shelf ... used to annoy me to pieces when that would dump a wishlist book in with my TBR books back when I entered giveaways. Either not default to or be more glaringly obvious that entering without unchecking is shelving the book on "to-read."

Personally, I think when entering the giveaways you should just be able to select which shelves, if any, you want book on. Not all readers shelve books the same way or even use the to-read shelf the same (plus as previous poster said authors still go through to-read shelvings to make unsolicited commercial contact .)

Again, thank you.

Aaron - thank you ever so much.

Good point D.L. I've never checked for that. How often have you found fake accounts in your giveaways?

Hopefully, goodreads will be doing that for you. Sounds like (not specifically this thread and the giveaways) they are taking more anti-spam measures and hopefully will be handling those accounts just constructed to game the giveaways or other areas of site.

Because some people scam is no reason to upset non-scamming readers who are tired of spam/promotions and have privacy concerns.

The giveaway program I think does need to be tweaked even more to gear towards readers who seem to be participating in goodreads if only by organizing their book catalogs and writing reviews, once winning a giveaway appear to be reading their wins (reading statuses, shelf reorganizing, rating, reviewing, etc.), ... with a random element to it still, of course. There are definitely patterns that indicate a participating goodreads member versus sockpuppet/scam/spam accounts trying to game the system and rip off authors.

I just think goodreads needs to handle on their end versus authors trying to police it. I've seen authors scammed like you mentioned. I've seen even more angry and screaming at reviewers entering because sure that no one can read that many books that quickly so must be a scam (because reviewer imported their Visual Bookshelf books so looked like added a few thousand books at once to the "read shelf") or that any book won in a giveaway that showed up on eBay the next day was a scam because could not possibly have read the book that fast...

I've never had an issue with you (or much of an issue at all with giveaways because I now prefer ebooks and haven't entered in years) particularly and do know there are people out there scamming authors and gaming the giveaways. But it shouldn't be authors doing the flagging and investigating; goodreads should handle (I realize they have not had a good track record with handling that or other spam/scam activities in quite a while)

I'm sure goodreads won't and shouldn't share the exact algorithm used (if they said something like must be a member on goodreads for at least 30 days to enter then the assholes would just wait 30 days). And no reviews doesn't necessarily mean "scam" (I know readers who won't give a bad review to something they win and some who enter to give the book as a gift which can be wrong if they create additional accounts to better their odds of course).

Giveaways here are probably one of the few proven effective tools to get a book discovered. The scammers and other problems (including just getting a giveaway setup and approved plus a perception that giveaway winners have to review or that the entrants are your marketing list) can discourage authors from creating giveaways; author spam along with all the scammers and newbies seemingly winning while actual readers don't can discourage "real" members from entering.

Goodreads needs to do some tweaking on the giveaways. I think this is a good step in that direction and that authors should never have needed to flag entrants. I would feel differently if I wasn't convinced that the authors, unlike you, who consider that list of entrants as somehow opting themselves and their groups into their promotions and mailings caused way more trouble for the goodreads community than the wrong person winning an open giveaway.

The very members you would likely want to keep entering giveaways are also the same members being spammed into less activity on goodreads. Your flagging suspicious entrants to goodreads attention isn't as visible to most members and members familiar enough with the community to know that is happening are leery of what some authors consider suspicious accounts.

Policing giveaway entrants is something goodreads and not authors should be doing. Unfortunately some bad apple authors spoil it for others. I don't like goodreads recent track record with spam/scam accounts and activities but my experiences with how much author's spam on a site not permitting commercial use and with what some author's idea of suspicious accounts, suspicious ratings/reviews and suspicious activities are -- I'm in favor of anything reducing spam and involuntary connections to commercial interests and I trust goodreads to be sniffing out suspicious accounts more than authors who have some very odd notions of what to flag. Trust "more than authors" doesn't mean I think they've been doing a great job of it.; just that they'll do better and there's no risk that member info would be misused.

During my last giveaway I gave 5 books, and got 0 reviews. At first, this angered me, but recently I read a good article online about giveaways and adjusted my perspective on them. I now consider giveaways to be simply promotion activities. I consider any reviews that I get to be bonuses. I seek reviews in other ways.

I agree with you that Goodreads probably won't do a good job of weeding out cheaters from giveaways. My guess is that GR staff is probably too busy to deal with the issue. I have a giveaway starting next week, and I'm just hoping it doesn't get targeted by many cheaters.

In case you are unaware, Amazon has a giveaway system.

It's always suspicious when a bunch of brand spanking new accounts enter mass amounts of giveaways.

Not even always clever because I've seen spam accounts that had screen names like blah-blah, blah-blah-1, blah-blah-2 variations that really seemed suspicious to me. Who when/if they did review all seemed to use similar phrasing and ratings.

And that's just easy to spot public stuff (I'm sure goodreads can see additional details to help spot suspicious stuff) even readers not looking for it notice.

(Not the only thing to look for of course and I suppose, although not likely, there could be some site or forum shutting down or some ad campaign driving a bunch of new accounts to goodreads but entering a ton of giveaways probably isn't usually the first thing a new member does -- sure, maybe a giveaway share or promotion brought them here but not a ton of them at once.)

I have a theory about GR giveaways:

In terms of entrants, I don't think it matters how many books you give. If true, and you agree with my philosophy that giveaways are not a good way to get reviews(they are for promotion), it doesn't make sense to give more than one book per giveaway. I plan to test this theory in the near future. My approved giveaway next will giveaway three books. My giveaway after that will giveaway one.

The one-book-per-giveaway protocol has other obvious advantages:

- Lower cost;
- less chance of cheaters getting their hands on your book.

D.L. wrote: "William wrote: "During my last giveaway I gave 5 books, and got 0 reviews. At first, this angered me, but recently I read a good article online about giveaways and adjusted my perspective on them. ..."

Don't think so. I just tested with my first book, which is no longer in Kindle Select, and was able to initiate an Amazon giveaway.

I was unaware of Amazon giveaways until this week. Note: I didn't follow the process all the way through so I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think you need to be exclusive to Amazon.

More about GR giveaways, I'm not sure about their effect on my sales, but even if they have little effect I'm still going to run them as they are pretty cheap. I can send one book anywhere in the U.S. for less than $10. I'm willing to spend that for the chance of a review and 600 people noticing my book (my average number of entrants for my 1st book).

All my giveaway copies are sent directly from CreateSpace. I haven't had any problems or complaints from winners.

By the way, my Amazon giveaway cost me about $75.00 to give 5 books, get 500 Twitter followers, and maybe a few reviews and sales. I'll get about $28 of that back in royalties so the actual cost is: $47.00. I don't have much experience with book promotions but that seems reasonable.

Thanks again, D.L., for alerting me to the fake accounts in giveaways.

Even though I'm thrilled authors are no longer getting a list of entrants because so many feel entitled to treat that as a direct marketing list, I wouldn't mind authors having more options with the giveaways.

An option right on giveaway page to follow the author so you'd see any status/blog updates about the book or other author activities with future books. (Not default checked like the "to-read" shelving is.). A link to any mailing lists or newsletters you can opt into on author websites.

Including option for readers to opt into goodreads communications about the book from authors (the key being "opt-in"—not something defaulted to or buried in other wording, very clearcut that's what you are doing). Or to opt into notice of next book written or next book in series notices. Not as messages to our inboxes on goodreads (few of us are looking for additional inbox stuff to maintain) or giving authors email addresses but a "sendmail" sort of option where author would write message and goodreads would send a digest email to members of notices they opted into when entering giveaway.

To be able to offer x number of hardcopies and y number of ebooks (winner's choice of format and if hardcopies left over then more winners selected by goodreads who don't get format choice).

To offer a set number of second chance ebooks if not winning hardcopy. Even to offer to non-winners a set number of ebooks with the restriction that they are agreeing to write an unconditioned review of the book. None of that by default, something readers have to deliberately agree to.

To offer internationally but have non-domestic-shipping entrants pay the additional shipping costs (rather than authors paying what are often some really pricey international shipping)--via PayPal or some similar service, not making anyone deal with credit card info.

I wouldn't like ebook-only giveaways because potentially so many authors would participate (due to lower cost) the discoverability would be lost. And finding your giveaway book would be as likely for readers as just randomly finding your book would be.

I like keeping the giveaways random and even that the selection algorithm if not completely random isn't public knowledge (boy would the scammers have a field day with that). I wouldn't mind tweaking that to be that if one book is offered for giveaway, entrants are completely randomly chosen (but examined in case of suspicious activity of course) but with a certain number of copies offered for giveaway some other factors came into play where authors or goodreads could choose some of the winner criteria (not disclosing exact criteria to public but do disclose that after x books entrants matching additional criteria would get a second chance to win y more) . (Criteria like known to review previous giveaway wins, the shelf tag cloud containing your book's genre, a certain number of reviews, a certain number of months on goodreads [months not disclosed so scammers don't get something to take advantage of], a certain number of friends/followers ...).

I'd like authors to have more options in giveaways. But, I'm one who thinks the giveaways are good for discovery (as at risk for scammers as any other internet giveaway) rather than good for promising reviews or giving authors permission to contact entrants Or even good for sales just because someone deliberately shelved as "to read" or just forgot to uncheck the to-read shelving--although hard to judge because if not discovered of course there are no sales. I think authors wanting to qualify entrants or pick and choose themselves need to do so in their own giveaways rather than goodreads giveaways (status updates pointing readers to the giveaway here or on your website/blog, group threads permitting promotional posts, even starting an event or group just for that purpose...anything but cold call messages to readers) even though not getting same level of discovery and same numbers of entrants. And that authors only offering giveaway to get reviews need instead to find the read-for-review threads or ask with status updates to find interested readers. None of which would see nearly the numbers a giveaway might see.

D.L. wrote: "William wrote: "All my giveaway copies are sent directly from CreateSpace. I haven't had any problems or complaints from winners.

By the way, my Amazon giveaway cost me about $75.00 to give 5 boo..."

I don't think Facebook marketing is a good idea for writers. I tried it, and got lots of impressions and a few clicks but I don't think I got any sales. The thinking of other writers, which I agree with, is that people on Facebook are not there to buy books, and trying to get them to leave FB to go to Amazon to buy your book is a difficult sell. They are on FB to interact with family and friends, not to buy books. Much wiser to use Kindle Direct Marketing, but as I'm sure you know, your book must be in Kindle Select to partake of that program. Anyway, Kindle Direct Marketing is too expensive; I'm paying $0.56/click, which is too high for self-publishers.

William wrote: "During my last giveaway I gave 5 books, and got 0 reviews. "

Goodreads giveaways are not a vehicle to garner reviews. They are a fun giveaway, something to promote on social media and an activity to generate some buzz and word of mouth about your book. From the notes when you set one up:
"Please note winning members are encouraged but not required to write a review of the book they receive."

So many complaints about giveaways could be solved if authors actually read the terms and conditions and understood that they are a competition, not a guaranteed review.

A.W. wrote: "William wrote: "During my last giveaway I gave 5 books, and got 0 reviews. "

Goodreads giveaways are not a vehicle to garner reviews. They are a fun giveaway, something to promote on social media ..."

Agreed. If you had paid attention to my entire post (important part replicated below) you would have realized that I came to that conclusion.

"During my last giveaway I gave 5 books, and got 0 reviews. At first, this angered me, but recently I read a good article online about giveaways and adjusted my perspective on them. I now consider giveaways to be simply promotion activities. I consider any reviews that I get to be bonuses. I seek reviews in other ways."

You are not doomed. I don't have a following, and so far I've had 287 people sign up to the contest. I fired off a tweet using the #amazongiveaway list, and I think that helped. There's 3 days to go, and I'm hoping to hit the 500-entrants goal. Since they have to follow me on Twitter to sign up to the giveaway that means 287 of the easiest Twitter followers I've ever gotten. Also, you can send a message to your hundreds of Facebook followers about your Amazon giveaway; that will probably get you some entrants. People aren't keen to click ads, but they love opportunities to win stuff.

Also, on the topic of Goodreads advertising: It's a broken system. I think that's well known. As an example, my first book has over 20,000 impressions (2 ads) over a 1-year period, and not a single click! That's a broken system. As a comparison, my current ad campaign for my second book on Amazon has 3 clicks for about 1,500 impressions (yes, I'm comparing 2 different books, but I think it's a fair comparison). I just use GR ads for promotion; it's a cheap way to get my book into people's heads. I put $5.00 into my ad campaign for second book, the lowest amount I figured I could get away with.

Oh, right, I'd forgotten that now Facebook makes you pay to reach your followers. Another reason not to use FB.

Other authors have shared their valuable knowledge with me, so I'm just paying back the favor. Keep your head up.

D.L. wrote: "William wrote: "Also, on the topic of Goodreads advertising: It's a broken system. I think that's well known. As an example, my first book has over 20,000 impressions (2 ads) over a 1-year period, ..."

Part of the problem of the GR ad system is the bad placement of ads. For example, when I log into GR, the ads on the first page I see are below the fold; I don't even see them! I have to scroll down to see them. Those are all wasted impressions. It's well known that ads have to be above the fold to have a chance of being effective.

Just curious, by "impressions" you mean how many times ad was shown?

(I have no experience or knowledge with goodreads ad programs; usually if I do see an interesting book advertised I'll just go to the book page on goodreads to check it out rather than wherever an ad click might take me. I seldom notice ads at all unless ones so flickering I have to close goodreads until a friend tells me it went away—those I deliberately boycott. But, I also never click on Facebook ads even for free stuff or free in game stuff so I'm sure you cannot go by me.)

D.A.: yes, impressions = number of times ad was shown to people.

Another thing I don't like about GR's ad system is placing 2 books side by side. Ridiculous! I don't want to compete with another author for a click in a single ad. I want my ad served up independently. I also think it somewhat overwhelms the viewer, which causes him/her to ignore it.

William wrote: "...Another thing I don't like about GR's ad system is placing 2 books side by side. Ridiculous! I don't want to compete with another a..."

That's just wrong and unfair. If you paid for your ad to be above the fold, it should be or you should be able to get a refund.

Well said, D.L. Most of what GR says about giveaways is wrong. That 60% figure is rubbish. You can expect a 40% or less review rate, which makes giveaways a poor way to get reviews. They also recommend (at least they did in the past; not sure what they recommend these days because I ignore them) that you give 10 books and set the length of your giveaways to one month or more. More bad advice. If you are willing to give 10 books you should split that number into multiple giveaways of short duration (7-10 days) to maximize the number of entrants you get. Self-published authors get most of their contest entrants from 2 tabs of the giveaways: the "recently listed" and "ending soon" tabs. So, you want to maximize the number of times your book appears in those tabs; you do that by running multiple giveaways.

That's a 20% review rate, D.L. For the record, I've gotten 4 reviews from 15 books given away. That's a 27% review rate. So it would be more accurate for GR to say you can expect a 25% review rate. But "Hey Authors, sign up for a 10-book giveaway, and get 2 reviews in return" doesn't sound as enticing as "you can expect a 60% review rate."

William wrote: "Also, on the topic of Goodreads advertising: It's a broken system. I think that's well known. As an example, my first book has over 20,000 impressions (2 ads) over a 1-year period, and not a single click."

In terms of Goodreads ads, this is actually a very low number of impressions. I took a look at your ads, and saw several things you could do to improve their visibility. I won't post them here in case you'd rather discuss in private (though I'm happy to post here if it will help others).

As for the sponsored books being below the fold, this is part of the self-serve platform. Books posted above the fold are part of our premium ad packages, which require a higher budget.

I had really bad experiences with goodreads advertising.
I would run adds with very few click throughs nad hen suddenly one night I would have like 20 clicks in the course of like 4 hours. It did not make sense and I really felt it was some kind of attempt by other users of advertisng to create unnecessary click throughs. Did anyone else have this experience?
I let Goodreads know and they were looking into it but really did not follow up as after while decided it was not for me anyway.

Aaron wrote: "Hi Joseph, this is a recent change in the giveaway page. We've done this in an attempt to protect member privacy, as authors aren't meant to contact anyone except the winners of their giveaways. So..."

I guess this is fair enough; most authors would not spam giveaway entrants but I suppose there are some who do, and anyway the number of entrants is all we really need to know.

I do think there are a couple of improvements Goodreads could make to the system. As William says above, only a small minority of winners will review books, but the number could be increased by weighting in favour of active participants in Goodreads. The other step might be an automated mailing from Goodreads to entrants who have not won, to tell them that - with a link to the book. I don't think that would constitute spamming.

Mike wrote: "The other step might be an automated mailing from Goodreads to entrants who have not won, to tell them that - with a link to the book. I don't think that would constitute spamming. ..."

I would consider your suggestion spam unless I had signed up to get email from goodreads regarding my giveaway entries. I wouldn't consider it a privacy issue because goodreads already has my email.

I think goodreads could very well make that an option on the giveaways or your settings pages where you'd be notified about giveaway results. I'd prefer to see an option on the giveaway page to choose to be notified by email, notifications, individual email, digest, etc. like other areas of the site do.

Then again, I even think it's a good idea to have an option to follow author or to get updates from the author right in the giveaway (so long as not checked by default for you in a way you might miss).

Letting members opt into all kinds of emails from goodreads and/or contact with authors -- sure. Sending emails and other contact they did not opt into - nope, that's unsolicited commercial contact.

For what it's worth, if giveaway was for a new release (or ARC of a new release) and readers were interested enough to shelve the book, I think readers who signed up for the new release email from goodreads get notified about that book as well (not necessarily right up top or featured). Well, deliberately shelved or didn't remember to uncheck the box that shelved it as "to read" for you.

D.L. wrote: "Mike wrote: "Aaron wrote: "Hi Joseph, this is a recent change in the giveaway page. We've done this in an attempt to protect member privacy, as authors aren't meant to contact anyone except the win..."

But Amazon is a book seller. Goodreads isn't supposed to be. Another site does the same thing and it always annoys me to get a chipper little email from them saying congratulations you didn't win but you can still buy the book from us. I will never buy a book from them.

D.L. wrote: "Joseph wrote: "I had really bad experiences with goodreads advertising.
I would run adds with very few click throughs nad hen suddenly one night I would have like 20 clicks in the course of like 4 ..."
Yeah it happened to me 2 or 3 times. I figured it was some person using multiple accounts or something to deter me from advertising. Could not figure out any other reason and as statistics major seemed highly unlikely they were different people.

Faith wrote: "D.L. wrote: "Mike wrote: "Aaron wrote: "Hi Joseph, this is a recent change in the giveaway page. We've done this in an attempt to protect member privacy, as authors aren't meant to contact anyone e..."

You received a contest notification e-mail with a book link in it? Heaven forfend! When you sign up to a giveaway, you have to accept that you are going to be advertised to. If you have a problem with that, don't enter giveaways. For authors, the whole point of giveaways is to advertise our books. We don't giveaway books for the goodness of our health.

Aaron wrote: "William wrote: "Also, on the topic of Goodreads advertising: It's a broken system. I think that's well known. As an example, my first book has over 20,000 impressions (2 ads) over a 1-year period, ..."

Thanks for the response, Aaron. I don't think any promotion system with "premium" in the title makes financial sense for a self-publisher, but I'll check out the premium ad package.

William wrote: "Faith wrote: "D.L. wrote: "Mike wrote: "Aaron wrote: "Hi Joseph, this is a recent change in the giveaway page. We've done this in an attempt to protect member privacy, as authors aren't meant to co..."

I don't "have to" accept anything. And after unfortunate experiences on Goodreads I no longer enter giveaways for books by self published authors.

"I don't "have to" accept anything. And after unfortunate experiences on Goodreads I no longer enter giveaways for books by self published authors."

I think that's a win-win for both parties, Faith. Self-publishers don't need readers like you.

Part of the problem with contests in general is: cheapskates. People who rarely buy anything but who are always looking for freebies. Some of those people even go so far as to create fake accounts to increase their chances of winning, as previously discussed.

"It costs thousands of dollars, William."

Yikes! Thanks, D.L. Let me revise my last response to Aaron: I won't be considering GR's premium ad package any year soon.

William wrote: ""I don't "have to" accept anything. And after unfortunate experiences on Goodreads I no longer enter giveaways for books by self published authors."

I think that's a win-win for both parties, Fai..."

Readers like me are so cheap we have paid for more than 6 thousand books. Maybe we just know that free is more than some books are worth.

"Readers like me are so cheap we have paid for more than 6 thousand books. Maybe we just know that free is more than some books are worth."

I used a second paragraph in my response to you to talk about the cheapskate problem. That means I intended it to be a general comment to all readers in the thread, not particularly targeted at you.

Further, I'm even more convinced that my first comment still applies. If you believe that "free is more than some books are worth" then stop seeking/reading the works of self-publishers and complaining about them, and go buy your books on Amazon.

D.L. wrote: "Faith wrote: "William wrote: "Faith wrote: "D.L. wrote: "Mike wrote: "Aaron wrote: "Hi Joseph, this is a recent change in the giveaway page. We've done this in an attempt to protect member privacy,..."

D.L.- read some of threads in the general feedback group. Problems range from spamming, to harassment (by both authors and their followers) sometimes demanding reviews be changed. One GR author (not self published) stalked a reviewer to her home. I don't think it's a good idea to give authors my address. There is a lot less drama from marketing departments of publishers so I stick with traditionally published books.

William wrote: "...When you sign up to a giveaway, you have to accept that you are going to be advertised to..."

No, I don't and I most definitely can and do boycott products advertised via unsolicited commercial contact--including books.

I might agree to any advertisements or commercial contact I sign up for or opt into (aka ones I solicit). If the giveaway or contest said I was signing up to receive emails or that doing so was a condition of entry, then that's on me. And if an author, rather than goodreads, wanted to do a giveaway requiring entrants to receive advertising they are more than welcome to do so. If goodreads wanted to add that condition to their giveaway program or offer an option to get advertised too, well, they can certainly do that.

But, right now, the current goodreads giveaway program doesn't require entrants to receive additional contact from authors nor does goodreads contact on their behalf.

Even if I did do something to signup for advertising or commercial contact, that just means the sender isn't in any legal trouble; it doesn't mean anyone can get me to accept the advertising or stop me from boycotting a product if annoyed. And cleaning out inboxes of unwanted stuff usually does annoy me.

William wrote: "...Self-publishers don't need readers like you..."

I have nothing to add to that. Speaks volumes.

Thank you again goodreads for not giving authors an easy way to contact us or any encouragement to make commercial use of goodreads.

ETA: calmer

Now that Amazon owns GR I'd like to see Amazon-verified GR accounts. That is, GR accounts linked to Amazon accounts; preferably with purchase histories (even better, with book-purchase histories). Then GR could run a new type of giveaway, one where only Amazon-verified GR accounts can enter. It's the digital equivalent of the "purchase necessary to enter" contests in the real word. The nice thing about such contests is that they filter out cheapskates (or "contest trolls" or whatever you want to call them).

William wrote: "Now that Amazon owns GR I'd like to see Amazon-verified GR accounts. That is, GR accounts linked to Amazon accounts; preferably with purchase histories (even better, with book-purchase histories). ..."

I have a great deal of trust in what Amazon does with my purchase history and other account details. Unless they take your suggestion. I will be carefully checking for anything permitting your suggestion the next time they send me a notice their TOS has changed.

Well said, D.L. Authors keep this site free for readers, and provide the perk of free books.

D.L. wrote: "If we didn't advertise, GoodReads would have no income and would cease to exist, unless y'all want to start paying membership fees..."

goodreads existed before it had author ad revenue.

I suspect the fees collected from purchases made via get a copy links and those buying premium ad space contribute far more to keeping the site free.

Buying ad space (which even non-goodreads members can do) and providing ad revenue is not the same as using your membership to make commercial use of the site features or site members or violating any other TOS conditions. If you are not sure what any of those mean, ask goodreads support. If not sure about the unsolicited commercial contact laws, ask a lawyer--and even then don't be too sure you can get readers to accept or have to do any of it.

I don't see how authors keep this site free. I'm sure author ad purchases contribute to goodreads revenue and play a part. I'm sure goodreads values author participation and author ad revenue. I'm equally sure many non-author advertisements could fund this site just like they do plenty of other sites on the Internet.

Goodreads isn't the only book site; many others manage to get ads without author involvement and with or without membership fees. I know many members, both authors and readers, have contributed book and review data that have grown this site and attracted more members and more advertisers and even Amazon.com's buyout.

On the other hand, I doubt there are many non-retail book sites authors could advertise on or list giveaways on that would provide them the same size of membership (potential customers and potential reviewers) and the same book discoverability that goodreads offers.

ETA: late night touchscreen typos. And to add that there aren't a million goodreads authors here yet so even if each one spent thousands of dollars for the premium ad space (realistically most self-publishing don't) I'm not sure how that compares to revenue from millions of readers using purchase links or the revenue from publishers buying premium ad space. As to the perks of free books -- many readers are saturated with free books and siome top reviewers and bloggers no longer accept they are so flooded with requests -- call it a perk if you like. The time I spend entering giveaway and cleaning out inbox after entering a giveaway only to likely still not get that "perk" isn't worth it because if I want the book I'm likely able to buy it in ebook format for 99¢-$50 without the aggravation (or to just request a free review copy).

If you think goodreads would cease to exist without authors, do you think authors would bother being on goodreads without readers? Or that authors would even consider buying ad space to advertise to other authors if all the readers left goodreads?

Actually those numbers might not be too bad because there really are increasingly large numbers of authors self-publishing who are likely quite receptive to books from other self-publishing authors. They're less likely to consider free books a perk than just a quid pro quo, but large numbers.