SA reads discussion

Chapter 1 - 12

vicky, I have not read any of the discussion in existing thread yet, so my apologies if I touch on topics that have already been covered.

I am amazed at the strength of the main character, Ariel. Surviving in a loveless marriage for, what was it? more than 20 years? She must be super strong to hold out for that long.

Yet, ironically, she doubts herself. She has little self confidence. She fears everything. She poured herself into the upbringing of her two children, and now needs to feed on their strength and presence.

She admires the strength of two elderly widows for surviving 50 years without their husbands living in the same flat, but here she is, moving to a different continent, and New York City at that!! That is strength. She's got balls of steel…!!!

I think deep down, the old Ariel still lingers. Ariel is the lioness that the little statue signifies that she buys early in her stay in NYC. And I am convinced that she is strong enough to find herself again.

Vicki, Why don't we gradually move the comments on the existing thread over to this one. Perhaps you could start with the first one in which you ask the 3 questions - they are a good way to kick this discussion off, in my opinion.

Vicki wrote: ""He crossed a line and it could never be uncrossed, not ever."

1. Would you like to speculate what's happened here? Or was it really just the various affairs that makes Ariel say this.

2. And is ..."

Vicki,
Infidelity, like any sin, is forgiven through the process of repentance: the acknowledgement of error, the asking for pardon, and the commitment not to repeat the error. For the line never to be uncrossed, either the nature, or the repetition, of the error must have been serious. I'm guessing it was the nature.

Money does mean power; no, it is not right in the context of marriage. Women are too trusting - they need to employ their own lawyers in the drafting of the nuptial agreement, especially if they are to prioritise child birth and rearing.

Very true. Mothers that allow their sons to get away with abusing/taking advantage of them, end up seeing their sons carry that forward into their marriages. Mothers are especially prone to this with only sons - they hang on to the mother/son relationship for too long until the damage is irreversible. Sometimes the father is also at fault, not providing a strong enough father figure to balance this out.

I get the feeling that there is more to the crossing of the line that Ariel accuses her husband of. It seems that she has made peace with the affairs and they dont have a relationship like that anymore. I think its something else.

Yes, I believe that mothers have a big responsibility towards how their sons will treat other women, but in the same breath, so do fathers! The dads are the role models.

Vicki wrote: "Statistics on abused women is that it takes eight years before they finally leave, my research on the matter was that most of them never do mainly because of money, secondly because of fear. For Ar..."

Also, battered women's self worth and self confidence is so shattered that it's just less of a battle to stay. Something monumental is usually need to move a woman like Ariel.
I liked Ariel's resilience. She made a decision to do something, even though it took years, and that takes courage.

Vicki,
I love your analogy:

'I always imagined that to him, I was that little sharp object in your clothes that you could never find, but it was scratchy none the less.'

A poignant picture of a marriage gone cold. Wish I had written it.

Vicki wrote: "Adele wrote: "Yes, I believe that mothers have a big responsibility towards how their sons will treat other women, but in the same breath, so do fathers! The dads are the role models."
How do you g..."

Ha. That's a weird mental image, Adele: a burly man being abused by his skinny wife. Never in a blue-blooded Afrikaner household, surely?

John wrote: "Vicki wrote: "Adele wrote: "Yes, I believe that mothers have a big responsibility towards how their sons will treat other women, but in the same breath, so do fathers! The dads are the role models...."

Remind you to tell you a story some time...

Lisa wrote: "John wrote: "Vicki wrote: "Adele wrote: "Yes, I believe that mothers have a big responsibility towards how their sons will treat other women, but in the same breath, so do fathers! The dads are the..."

I will - I like stories.

At this stage, I just think that Nia and Oliver are two completely different personalities and that they need a different approach from their mother.

Then again, in that loveless marriage of hers, I am sure Ariel craves male company. Not sexual!! But just masculinity. A male approach, a male's opinion. Male presence. She gets that from her son.

Vicki wrote: "Nia vs Oliver
Do you think Ariel treats them differently? Raises them differently from each other? Its obvious she wants more for Nia than she ever wanted for herself and wants to raise someone of..."

It is an unusual and re-occurring phenomena: mothers want their daughters to be tough (and take pleasure it, as does Ariel with Nia); and want their sons to be vulnerable, as with Oliver. Women know what girls need in a male-dominated world - and they know what boys need to counter their own dominance. A bit of hardness and softness in each goes a long way towards making them successful adults.

Can I ask you something Vicki? Who is Nate Norman based on? I mean looks-wise. Is he based on a real actor? And if I may ask, who? Would like to get a more accurate idea if him..

Interesting the little statue theme forming. Nia seeing her mother as a graceful, but slightly battered angel.

Oh ok. Yes, I get the idea. Normal looking guy, sexy and a bit dangerous looking.

I can start seeing it

I really didn't want to start another book at the moment but Im glad i started this one. And now i cant stop! I love the way you write exactly the way we talk and think Vicki.

Norman Reedus doesn't work for me. Too scruffy and shifty looking. I was imagining somebody more like Russel Crowe.

I was specifically interested in how you saw him, Vicki. Russell Crow could work, but he is too famous to be living in a normal NYC flat I think. Will check out that other guy

Oh Im liking Andrew Lincoln !! But perhaps not completely scruffy enough...

Yeah I can definitely see that ;)

Vicki wrote: "And Ariel?"

Definitely Cameron Diaz.

What about Tea Leoni

Adele wrote: "What about Tea Leoni"

You hit it on the head again, Adele. Perfect. I take back my Cameron comment - too skinny anyway.

My knowledge of SA actors is shocking, sorry.

Fine by me. Im busy with chapter 12

Vicki wrote: "Thank goodness you didn't say Charlize, I think I'll run for the hills."

I second that.

Luckily my call is quiet. Getting to read a bit. Already at chapter 15 now.

Vicki wrote: Nia vs Oliver

I've only just begun the book so I haven't followed much of the commentary, but I want to jump in at this point. I think Nia is at risk. I've read and observed that there is some chance of the daughter of an abusive man eventually selecting an abusive mate for herself. I believe that a woman's father establishes what she expects. The fact that Nia is "Daddy's little girl" magnifies the issue.

Also, Oliver's future might involve some storm clouds. I get the impression that his girl friend is more cerebral, certainly more studious, than he. This suggests some possibilities. He may significantly be her intellectual inferior and be subjected to some mental bullying. Alternatively, she may ultimately become mentally dissatisfied with what he has to offer.

One more thing, are we going to learn more about Ariel's biological father? And were Ariel's experiences in her early years significant to her predicament at age forty one and a half?

No, Vicki. Sleeping is not allowed when your book is being reviewed. Please be available at all times in future to promptly attend to our comments.

Vicki wrote: "At least I wasn't sitting in a movie theatre slurping on my crushed ice drink, John."

Crushed ice drink? Slurping? Next thing you'll be accusing me of 'munching' popcorn. I'm deeply hurt, Vicki.

Day 7. Is that the darkest - or does it get worse? Total eclipse coming?

I often link a song to a book or a character. For Ariel its Beam me up by Pink.

Vicki wrote: "Adele wrote: "I often link a song to a book or a character. For Ariel its Beam me up by Pink."

Really? For me its, Don't stop believing, by Journey. Do you know who that is Adele? John and Dave do..."

Gotta agree with you on the Journey song, Vicki. Here's the link for Adele - just listened to it and sang my brains out. What a song!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcjzHM...

The songs dont ring a bell. But I will have a listen

You mean everything, like in all songs by Fall out boy?

Dont laugh, because i cant find a sing by the called everything

Ok seriously don't recognize the Journey song. Sorry. Different eras... But a nice song :)

Sounds very 80's is it?

Specific album for FOB? You know FOB in my profession means fibreoptic bronchoscpy...

Ok i like FOB's

Nooo.. But are you familiar with the artist known as Pink? I think I'm treading on thin ice here...

FOB remind ne a lot of Lenny Kravitz

By the way, I was born in the late 70's

Yeah, I picked up on the age thing. Im getting there...

Vicki,
This book is about one character only - Ariel. She is the only one the reader is given any chance to bond with; all the other's are skin deep and only there as props for Ariel. Was this your intention?
As a result the success of your book hinges on Ariel, and her story. So far, I think you are pulling it off. There is something about Ariel that is real and visual. I have a clear picture of who she is and what she is about, even though I do not particularly like her (although that might change as she develops as a person). I find myself wanting to return to her story, and share her experience - the mark of good characterization. Well done, so far.

Vicki wrote: "Ariel for me was personal, it allowed me to get into her skin. I got very emotional sometimes because of her. She is the only important factor that's meant to cement the surrounds. There wouldn't b..."

Fair reply, Vicki. But if everything is invested in that one character, then you'd better deliver with that one. She has grown in being able to trust Nate, although she still has a long way to go in that area. I am looking forward to growth in other areas in Ariel as a person, or is that the function the follow up?

Vicki wrote: "John wrote: "Vicki,
This book is about one character only - Ariel. She is the only one the reader is given any chance to bond with; all the other's are skin deep and only there as props for Ariel. ..."

Are you and Ariel one and the same, Vicki? You assured me this book was fictional - that means the characters too. It's a mine field discussing a book where the author is the main character.

Vicki wrote: "John wrote: "Vicki wrote: "Ariel for me was personal, it allowed me to get into her skin. I got very emotional sometimes because of her. She is the only important factor that's meant to cement the ..."

I look forward to that. I'd be happy to help if you need a beta reader, Vicki.