Around the World in 80 Books discussion

Start discussion here for Purge by Sofi Oksanen.

Here is a link with discussion questions from the author's personal website in pdf format:

http://www.sofioksanen.com/static/gui...

I just started reading this book but so far I am enjoying. As Rita said if it were not for this group I would not even have heard of this book.

One of the things which at first struck me is Aliide's reaction reaction to finding the girl and how extremely mistrustful she is. It makes one wonder at what her life experiences might have been. While one can understand being leary of finding a strange disheveled person in their yard, the fact that Aliide is so certain that the girl is bait for some kind of plot of conspiracy.

It makes me think that in part it must be a reaction to the atmosphere of the war, and the hardships and suffering the country as a whole has undergone, and the periless position the people are in, but it also seems that Aliide is very reluctant to trust for personal reasons, and in a way she wants to believe the girl is a plant to allow her to keep a distance from her.

I found something interesting. In Poland and Russia and some other parts of Eastern Europe there was an urban legend which started around the 1970s involving a black Volga

According to the legend a black (or sometimes red) Volga limousine, often said to have white wheel rims and or white curtains would be driven by someone disguised as a nun or a priest to try and lure in children. The children would be abducted and their blood and organs were taken. According to some versions of the myth the blood and organs from the abducted children were used to heal sick children in the West.

Silver wrote: "I just started reading this book but so far I am enjoying. As Rita said if it were not for this group I would not even have heard of this book.

One of the things which at first struck me is Aliid..."

When I read Allide's thoughts about the girl possibly being a criminal decoy, I thought that would be one convoluted robbery scheme. I found the opening incredibly strange, yet fascinating. It definitely made me aware of the fact that this novel is set in a completely different place--a place where distrust runs high and for good reason.

Everyone in the novel carries dark secrets and those secrets are often linked with suffering, guilt, and shame.

Well can't join the discussion on this one, my library doesn't have it and couldn't find it on Amazon as an ebook.

(view spoiler)[What do you think of Aliide turning in Ingel and Linda? She seems relieved and happy that Ingel will no longer be in the house and she can have Hans to herself, but do you think there were alternatives available to her if she hadn't wanted to turn them in? If she warned them and they left, they would know where her loyalties lie and view her as a traitor. Plus, what would happen to Hans? It's a tricky situation to say the least. (hide spoiler)]

I was very surprised at the discovery of the connection between Aliide and Zara. Also I am really enjoying the way in which the story is narrative. I like how it is broken up into these small parts which give a glimpse into the lives of these two different women and slowly unravel their stories and how they came to be in the places they are now.

Aliide is an interesting character. In some ways I really like her, and I admire the strength she has, and she seems like a woman who has survived something very tragic, but the more we start to see of her, there are times when she does come across as unsympathetic. It will be interesting when all the pieces of the puzzle finally come together to have a fuller understanding of the complete picture of her life.

What an interesting story. I also would not have known about this book, if it wasn't for this challenge.

I liked how the book went back and forth in time, in order to learn about each persons life, and what shaped them. I did find the 1990's story to be more interesting than the 1940's. I do like history and learning about different eras, but some of the earlier stories were a little boring.

I'm not quite sure about what happened at the end. (view spoiler)[ The book made it sound as if Aliide wanted Ingel and Linda to move back, but then Aliide was going to douse the house with gasoline and burn it. Maybe Aliide is just crazy! (hide spoiler)]

Rosanna wrote: "[spoilers removed]"


(view spoiler)[ If it was me personally. I would have warned my sister and ran with her. I think it was terrible that Aliide wanted Hans all to herself and was willing to let Ingel and Linda get sent away. Aliide was too obsessed with Hans. Along with letting her sister get sent away, she used to pinch Linda, and not be nice to her. Aliide had some issues. (hide spoiler)]

Rosanna wrote: [spoilers removed]

(view spoiler)[I really loved this book, and I, too, would never have come across it if not for this group.

While I could believe that Aliide might turn in Linda and Ingel—might turn in people she was supposed to love—I did have trouble believing that she did it because so many years later she was still obsessed with Hans. At one point I Googled the writer to double-check that the book was written by a woman—it seemed more like something a man might think a woman was capable of, versus something I can see a woman actually doing. I mean, I get it, women subject each other to terrible cruelty every day, everywhere. But I just had a hard time accepting that her crazy love for Hans (whose diaries reveal that he is quite cruel to Aliide) making her capable of betraying her country and her family. I actually think it would be more believable if he weren't described as always so aloof with her—I didn't see the kind of casual kindnesses that could even accidentally encourage her obsession.

On the other hand, I think it's very brave of the author to write a book with so many deeply unlikable characters. (hide spoiler)]

Shannon wrote: [spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[I was also confused by the end! I wasn't sure if those secret files were meant to share new information or just confirm what we already new, that Aliide had actively conspired to have Linda and Ingel sent away. I felt like we were supposed to think of Aliide in a new and more damning way, and I didn't. But I need to go reread that section again. (hide spoiler)]

RitaSkeeter wrote: "Does this link work? http://www.amazon.com/Purge-Sofi-Oksa...

I often gripe because Kindle titles are unavailabl..."
RitaSkeeter - thank you. Was able to successfully download.

So I am about 10% in and I really can't wait to see the relationship that develops between these two women, as well as learn about these women's stories. So I wanna keep reading.

I'm still thinking about whether or not I liked this book, but I know I loved learning about Estonia over the last 70 or so years. I've never been there, so I did some Pinterest investigation and put together a board of images inspired by the book. It looks amaze-balls.

http://www.pinterest.com/dianevadino/...

Thank you for the photos of Estonia,

I really enjoyed this book. I liked the back and forth thru time periods. Both female characters were interesting.

I just finished this book - a little late for the discussion, but hopefully that's OK. I would never have found this book but for (a) this group and (b) my reading challenge, inspired by this group, to read a book from each of the countries I'll be visiting on an upcoming cruise in Northern Europe. Good luck finding books for Estonia ... Purge seems to fit in the theme of "truly horrible things human beings can do to each other," psychologically as well as physically. Aliide and Zara seemed a microcosm of Estonia itself, in the sense that Estonia seems for much of its history to have been taken over and occupied by sinister forces for their own benefit, as was the case for Aliide and Zara. I thought the book overall was well-written (a challenge to maintain when it is translated, as this is), but I didn't put it at the transcendent level that some reviewers on Amazon have. I found the back-and-forth between time periods and characters a bit disjointed at times. I agree with the commenter above that it was a bit hard to follow at the end - was that section supposed to give us new information (it didn't seem to)? I think I might have benefited from knowing more about Estonian history before reading the book, as that seemed to inform a lot of the characters' behavior. I agree that the characters were generally unappealing - while there were parts of their life stories that made their bad behavior understandable (to a degree), with the exception of Zara I still found them to be unsympathetic. The book just seemed a little flat to me and didn't give me much to think about afterwards.

Diana wrote: "I'm still thinking about whether or not I liked this book, but I know I loved learning about Estonia over the last 70 or so years. I've never been there, so I did some Pinterest investigation and p..."

The photos do look lovely - thanks for finding those and sharing them!

I'd love to know if anyone else has been thinking of Purge while watching the news about Russia, Ukraine, and the Crimea over the past few days. In that "the best predictor of future behavior of past behavior" sense - seems a bit eerie!

Diana wrote: "I'm still thinking about whether or not I liked this book, but I know I loved learning about Estonia over the last 70 or so years. I've never been there, so I did some Pinterest investigation and p..."

Love your board about the book and Estonia!

I really need to get back to this book and finish it.

I got a little bit behind but I just finished this book. In regards to Aiide's actions I personally do not find it that hard to believe that Aiide would betray her sister and Linda in the name of her love/obsession for Hans. I think women do all sorts of unimaginable, unthinkable and cruel things in the name of love, or in what they delude themselves into thinking of love, and I think they can deceive themselves into believing what they want to believe. Even if not given any obvious sign of encouragement I think that women are capable of convincing themselves they can make the other love them if only the rival was removed.

In regards to the ending

(view spoiler)[ I agree that the very end was a bit confusing but I felt what the end offered was not new information about Aiide but rather it revealed the truth about Martin. My interpretation of the end was that Martin got involved with Aiide as a way to try and get to her family and particularly Hans, and that Aiide who believed she could manipulate Martin on account of his love for her was really being used by him. Aiide sacrificed her sister on behalf of two men neither of whom truly loved her for who she was. Maybe Martin did grow to have real feelings for her but I believe he sought her out originally because he knew her family history and wanted to use her to get to them. She played into that without seeing the way she was being used because she was blinded by her own misplaced desires. (hide spoiler)]

Footnote: Purge was the first book I read about the Russian deportations in the Baltics - or even heard about them, really. I ended up reading a Lithuania book next (by an American first descendent), Between Shades of Gray, which is about a Lithuanian teenager deported to Siberia alongside her mother, brother and father, an academic. It gave me tremendous insight into what Aliide was threatening Linda and Inge with - one of my problems with Purge, if not its own flaw, was that I didn't come to it with the sense of history that Estonian or Finnish readers would have. Now, having a tiny sense of that history thanks to Between Shades of Gray, it's clearer just how monstrous Aliide's act was. I recommend it as a useful companion! (And it's quick - I read it in a day.)

Silver wrote: "I got a little bit behind but I just finished this book. In regards to Aiide's actions I personally do not find it that hard to believe that Aiide would betray her sister and Linda in the name of h..."

Thanks for your thoughts about the ending - that was helpful, and it makes a lot of sense.

Amy wrote: "
Thanks for your thoughts about the ending - that was helpful, and it makes a lot of sense.

I am glad you thought so.

Wow! Sorry for digging up this topic again, but I read this book last week and I couldn't put it down!

This book gives an amazing overview of Estonia's history from its German occupation during WWII to the Soviet communist rule that lasted for almost half a century until the early 90s. But more importantly, the characters and the story were so compelling, a definite page-turner.

(view spoiler)[I agree that Aliide was a crazy woman! Her obsessive love for Hans led to her becoming increasingly jealous and resentful towards her sister. Also, the scene where her 7 year old niece Linda gets raped and Aliide just stands by to hold the light, really broke my heart. It's horrible how the communist system tore families apart and turned people against each other.

The ending left me thinking that Martin may have not been such a passive actor as what Aliide thought him to be. Finally, did Aliide in the end think of burning the house down and burying herself under the floorboard where Hans remains are? Gosh, talk about crazy! (hide spoiler)]

This is a story of great sadness and realism.
Aliide is an elderly Estonian woman who lived through WWII (Russian occupation then German occupation followed by the Russians again), Stalin and into independence. With each change, good people became bad and bad people became good depending on who was now in charge. The book covers both the history but also the impact of decisions made and how war brings such misfortune to those impacted.

The second main character in the book Zara has been tricked to leave her Russian home and forced to become a sex slave. Her story is brutal. She shows the impact of "freedom" and "democracy" but also how cruel men can be.

I thought this to be a quite unique book. Not to be read if you want to be cheered up.