History in Vogue discussion

May guessed the truth," he said. "There is another woman—but not the one she thinks...

“I have never made love to you," he said, "and I never shall. But you are the woman I would have married if it had been possible for either of us."

Archer's idyllic escape to be with Ellen in the country is destroyed by his jealousy over Beaufort's arrival. Though deep down he knows the rumors of an affair with Beaufort to be unfounded, he allows it to cloak his increasing agitation at the experiences a quiet life in New York with him couldn't offer her. Fighting his increasing attachment to Ellen, he goes to May in St Augustine. Instead he finds only disappointment at her refusal to hasten their marriage and begins a nagging suspicion at the true meaning behind her innocent demeanor.

The family appeals to Archer to prevent Ellen's decision to divorce. Faced with the possibility of her not only remaining in her marriage, but returning to her husband, he admits his true feelings to Ellen and his desire to end his engagement to May. Ellen refuses him, unable to betray the people she believes have shown her so much love and support. In the midst of his very public opinion in support of Ellen's divorce - and their closening friendship - May's family agrees to shorten their engagement. Ellen leaves New York, and Archer and May are married one month later.

"Mistakes are always easy to make; but if I had made one of the kind you suggest, is it likely that I should be imploring you to hasten our marriage?"

"Yes," she said at length. "You might want—once for all—to settle the question: it's one way.”

“You mustn't think that a girl knows as little as her parents imagine. One hears and one notices—one has one's feelings and ideas...

• What does May really mean by this statement? Is it mere coincidence that she mentions especially since our engagement has been announced... What does this scene show of May's character compared to what Archer believes her to be?

• Mrs Mingott is the no-nonsense matriarch who laughs in the face of much of society's edicts, but what was her real reason for speaking with Archer after his return from St Augustine?

Archer had reverted to all his old inherited ideas about marriage There was no use in trying to emancipate a wife who had not the dimmest notion that she was not free; and he had long since discovered that May's only use of the liberty she supposed herself to possess would be to lay it on the altar of her wifely adoration. Her innate dignity would always keep her from making the gift abjectly; and a day might even come (as it once had) when she would find strength to take it altogether back if she thought she were doing it for his own good.

May roused herself from one of the dreamy silences into which he had read so many meanings before six months of marriage had given him the key to them.

...but he was beginning to fear his tendency to dwell on the things he disliked in her.

• Archer's hope that his marriage can be anything more than society's inherited ideas is gone, but could society convince a woman to feel nothing more than dignified wifely adoration if she were truly in love?

...it's worth everything, isn't it, to keep one's intellectual liberty... one preserves one's moral freedom... And when one hears good talk one can join in it without compromising any opinions but one's own; or one can listen, and answer it inwardly...

• The late 1800's in America were noted for their media corruption, but how similar is this to the state of our own modern media?


note : Would anyone be interested in a group discussion on the 1993 film version of The Age of Innocence with Daniel Day Lewis and Michelle Phiffer once we're finished with the book? Scorsese made some interesting choices, but it does look at some of the more nuanced themes in the story quite well. I have the DVD, but it's available for download on Amazon for $2-3 dollars, or you could probably buy it for $5-6. I'm not certain about libraries, but you might find it to borrow.

Marie wrote: "May guessed the truth," he said. "There is another woman—but not the one she thinks...

“You mustn't think that a girl knows as little as her parents imagine. One hears and one notices—one has one's feelings and ideas...

• What does May really mean by this statement? Is it mere coincidence that she mentions especially since our engagement has been announced... What does this scene show of May's character compared to what Archer believes her to be?

May shows she's not so naive as everyone believes her to be. I think she's more aware of Archer's feelings than he is. He assumes she's speaking of his former mistress but I think she means Ellen.

This comment is especially telling about May's awareness of Archer's feelings:
"But that's what I want to know, Newland—what I ought to know. I couldn't have my happiness made out of a wrong—an unfairness—to somebody else. And I want to believe that it would be the same with you. What sort of a life could we build on such foundations?"

Good questions. What kind of life will they have together if he's constantly longing for someone else or if he wants his wife to be made over in the image of someone else? May isn't quite so insipid as she first appears to be. She's testing Archer to see how far he'll go towards being a rebel.

• Mrs Mingott is the no-nonsense matriarch who laughs in the face of much of society's edicts, but what was her real reason for speaking with Archer after his return from St Augustine?

I really like her. She adds comic relief to the story. I think she is also testing - and warning- Archer. Pick a granddaughter and stick with her. Pick May and you won't cause a scandal within the family. Pick Ellen and you have my admiration but I can't support an illicit liaison.

Archer had reverted to all his old inherited ideas about marriage...
• Archer's hope that his marriage can be anything more than society's inherited ideas is gone, but could society convince a woman to feel nothing more than dignified wifely adoration if she were truly in love?

Archer is showing his true colors. He's still a dilettante. He's bored by May but he can't let go of centuries of tradition. I don't think society can make anyone feel any different than they do but they can make one appear to be dignified and adoring. I think May is more shrewd than Archer realizes. She's young and she doesn't really know what he wants because he doesn't communicate that to her. He doesn't even know what he wants really.

• The late 1800's in America were noted for their media corruption, but how similar is this to the state of our own modern media?

The society gossips and so-called journalists like William Randolph Hearst aren't really any different from modern tabloid journalism. At the time the story takes place, the celebrities of the day were the upper class society people and their every move was scrutinized by both society and the press. I really didn't care for the drama in The Luxe but the period details are really good. The characters live in the same kind of world as Edith Wharton's characters.


Would anyone be interested in a group discussion on the 1993 film version of The Age of Innocence?"

Maybe later. I don't like to see a movie with the book super fresh in my mind. Already I am critiquing the casting choices. I don't see Michelle Pfeiffer as Ellen. Ellen is dark haired and I doubt she's as old as Michelle Pfeiffer. I don't see Winona Ryder as the young ingenue either. It's hard to believe she was only 20 when the movie was made. I see her as more of an Ellen than May.