SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

Having started thread about Fantasy Classics, I thought it might also be interested to look at those that are SF classics.

Books that are old, genre-forming, and good. Given that fantasy didn't really take off until the 1970s, when people found you could publish Tolkien knock-offs, and before then was the poor cousin of SF, there's probably more of them.

Though when I reflect, I know there are some authors who ought to be considered classics -- Robert A. Heinlein for instance -- but I'm less sure which book I would direct someone to, to see how the genre was formed.

Alfred Bester. THE STARS MY DESTINATION is a contender for the best SF ever written.

I'd say Dune.

Books I'd consider sci-fi classics are We, Brave New World, 1984, The Day of the Triffids, Childhood's End, The Man in the High Castle, and multiple things by Jules Verne and H.G. Wells.

If I had to pick just one Heinlein, I'd go with The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress.

"Three to Conquer" and "Sinister Barrier" by Eric Frank Russell.

"Voyage of the Space Beagle" and "The War Against the Rull" by A.E. Van Vogt.

"Star Gate" by Andre Norton.

This is excluding already mentioned ones like Dune and Day of the Triffids.

The SF genre was only suitable for 14-year-old boys until it stopped focusing on gadgets. I think you’d have to give a lot of credit for the psychological maturing of SF to Sturgeon, although he was much better with short stories. Heinlein matured, but since so much of his mainstream stuff (e.g., Have Spacesuit Will Travel) is clearly written for the adolescent market, I don’t think he’s comparable with Sturgeon. My favorite stand-alone SF novel is The Lathe of Heaven.

Mary wrote: "Given that fantasy didn't really take off until the 1970s, when people found you could publish Tolkien knock-offs, and before then was the poor cousin of SF, there's probably more of them.."

That probably explains why I most prefer recent Fantasy to the 70's and 80's stuff. To me it feels like the genre has matured a lot.

Gotta Agree with Alfred Bester's 2 books, Dune, Jules Verne's books, HG Wells' books, and Heinlein's juveniles being classics.

I'm not as well versed in SF as in Fantasy...

but I LOVED Andre Norton's Moon Magic series.

It was my second "real" SF (the first being The Zero Stone).

But I also love the Brainship Series The Ship Who Sang

I particularly like The Ice Crown, Catseye, and Dread Companion among Norton's SF.

SF Classics have to include the cornerstones upon which modern stories still depend or have derived from. Asimov's Foundation series - the first space opera I believe, spanning universes and thousands of years provided inspiration for later writers. Also his Robot series, and his rules of robotics, which all writers (and scientists) have regard to in some way are classics.

So far as Heinlein is concerned 'Farnham's Freehold' is the one I remember so vividly, having read it when the cold-war crisis was at its peak and it was a very topical story.

No-one's mentioned Harry Harrison and his world without electricity. Kurt Vonnegut's 'Cat's Cradle' or 'Ice Nine'

But of them all Arthur C Clarke is renowned for the most accurate crystal ball, and should be ranked amongst the classics.

Mary wrote: "I particularly like The Ice Crown, Catseye, and Dread Companion among Norton's SF."

Wasn't Catseye turned into a movie?


I know the The Beast Master was turned into both movies and a TV show.

I read somewhere that the changes the [script writers & producers] made to the book served as a cautionary tale to other writers - the book was changed so much that it became unrecognizable.

Asimov's Foundation series - the first space opera I believe, spanning universes and thousands of years provided inspiration for later writers

Asimov's Foundation series is indeed seminal, but space opera properly so called got its start earlier with writers like E.E. "Doc" Smith.

Mary Shelley's Frankenstein and The Last Man.

Asimov's I,Robot series. Truly groundbreaking and still, cracking good stories.

Margaret wrote: "Asimov's Foundation series is indeed seminal, but space opera properly so called got its start earlier with writers like E.E. "Doc" Smith"

I forgot Doc Smith -his lensman series were indeed classics, although I always had the impression when reading that they were aimed at juveniles. Don't ask me why!

Some of these classics (alas that Smith is one) have dated rather badly. Others are as fresh and exciting as if they were written yesterday.

Speaking of Bester, The Demolished Man by Alfred Bester is $2.99 today on Kindle.

Consider the badly dated category; well, most of the writers would never think anyone would still be thinking about their texts 50+ years later. Example, Bradbury nor Goodwin would think we'd still be talking about 'Mars is heaven' or 'Cold Equations' in the 21st Century.

I still think "Mission of Gravity" by Hal Clement reads well.

"Ordeal in Otherware" by Andre Norton too.

I love HG Wells but I don't think that Jules Verne and John Wyndham have aged nearly as well.

from the 1970s:
Last year I was very impressed with The Forever War and The Female Man. I read Warm Worlds and Otherwise a few months ago, and most of it held up quite well.

The Left Hand of Darkness is one of my favorite sf novels.

Leigh Brackett still holds up well
Clifford Simak's Way Station is still good
Fritz Leiber but a lot of his books were Fantasy

and of course Andre Norton is still good

Chris wrote: "I'd say Dune."

Personally I love Dune, it is one of the two books I re-read every five years or so. LotR is the other.

Every time I read it I find something that I had missed, or forgotten or hadn't thought of in quite the same context. It is somewhat sad that like the Prof he never rose to that level of excellence again, but at least it happened.

Margaret wrote: "If I had to pick just one Heinlein, I'd go with The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress."

Kim wrote: "Books I'd consider sci-fi classics are We, Brave New World, 1984, The Day of the Triffids, Childhood's End, [book:The Man in the Hig..."

Another excellent book, gives a whole new meaning to throwing rocks at your enemy.

I agree with all the books that are on this list and that I have read, and the ones that I haven't, well it is pretty hard to argue with any of those.

While I myself didn't find: worth the read, I wouldn't argue against it being a classic. I may have a somewhat inflated estimate of the worth of my opinion, but it is still my opinion, too many others like a recommend the book for it not to be considered a classic.

I would add to the list for consideration:


Which in my less than humble opinion I wish he would have left as a stand alone.


An interesting mix of fantasy and science fiction.





Thx

An unusual "first contact" novel/series

All The Colours Of Darkness

Classic Poul Anderson

Satan's World

Beth wrote: "I love HG Wells but I don't think that Jules Verne and John Wyndham have aged nearly as well. "

Wells' have aged quite well as SF stories.

Verne's have aged quite well as adventure stories rather than SF, even though it would have been what we currently think of as SF back in the today.

Sometimes the old SF works for me because I get to not only reread a literary/classic work but also come to understand the technology and science in a new way.

Recently I read The Invisible Man by H.G. Wells where I found opportunity to think how rogue scientists can be be dangerous to themselves and others.

Kim wrote: "Books I'd consider sci-fi classics are We, Brave New World, 1984, The Day of the Triffids, Childhood's End, The Man in the Hig..."</i>

Love John Wyndham. [book:The Kraken Wakes is one of my favorites.

Cynda wrote: "to think how rouge scientists ."

I have adhd so I am probably missing your meaning right now, but what are you meaning by rouge scientists? Do you mean clown scientists? Like those who think that they are great but they are just being performative in ridiculous ways or do scientists wearing blusher have a different meaning I am not picking up?

My apologies if I am being obtuse.

In some circles, “rouge” has become blended with “rogue,” as in “rouge elephant” (or werewolf). I suspect spelling correction software is somewhere in the background, but it just might be a genuine typo that made it into print, and was imitated by those unfamiliar with the originally intended word in the sense of someone who breaks away and goes off on his own. Some dictionaries will cover Rogue Elephant in its literal and figurative meanings.

Pandorahh thank you for giving me opportunity to clarify. . . . A rogue scientist is one who refuses to participate in the scientific process.

My review of The Invisible Man ill clarify a bit more:

www.goodreads.com/review/show/5935161487

You know, Ian, I had not realized that the autocorrect did this as I am 99% sure I wrote "rogue." If you hadn't said anything, I wouldn't have noticed. . . . Fixing now.

I have dyslexia of the fingers as one hand sometimes gets ahead of the other, so I have a lot of teh instead of the, anit instead of anti, colelection instead of collection, and many, many more of the same ilk

I have vestibular issues. So yeah another eye-and-hand issue. Everytime I do a readathon, I practice my eye exercises. I need to do so more often.

Just read Little Fuzzy, which I loved. Great novel of Golden Era (style) SF.

DivaDiane wrote: "Just read Little Fuzzy, which I loved. Great novel of Golden Era (style) SF."

Agree with you about Little Fuzzy. H. Beam Piper wrote some terrific space opera as well. Haven't read Scalzi's follow up to Little Fuzzy. I guess I'm always hesitant about a writer taking on the world of another.

I have heard criticism of Scalzi's take that makes me very reluctant.

I found his work hit or miss for that reason.

I don't know if it's a classic, but it's certainly old-ish. I remember a story I read maybe 40 or 50 years ago where China was releasing some prisoners and they were flying them to the US on an airliner. Only problem was the airliner was also carrying an atomic bomb and the prisoners were just window dressing. The Air Force sent up a couple of jets to inspect the airliner where they saw the happy people waving in the windows. Everything looked fine until the bomb went off. Does anyone know the name or author of this story?

There have been a series of Fuzzy sequels (and possibly prequels) by a variety of other hands. H. Beam Piper’s own follow-ups are Fuzzy Sapiens, also published as The Other Human Race, and Fuzzies and Other People.

A good deal of Piper’s work is in the public domain, and can be found on Project Gutenberg in and in cheap Kindle omnibus editions. There are also more carefully edited editions from established publishers.

His last completed work, Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen, was part of his Paratime Police series. It has has a series of sequels, too, by John Carr alone and (in one case) with Roland Green.

Charles, please start a new thread in the Recommendations and Lost Books folder to find your book!

Recently I read 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea by Jules Verne. What a merging of scientific knowledge and techological innovation!

Currently reading We by YevgenyZamyatin. reading We by Yevgeny Zamyatin. This is more a conceptual novel than a plot-driven novel. While not enlightening (so far) it is a thought-provoking meditation on the difference between that which simply serves and that which provides some comfort or charm.

Cynda wrote: "Recently I read 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea by Jules Verne. What a merging of scientific knowledge and techological innovation!"

I've read a bunch of Verne books:

A Journey to the Centre of the Earth
From the Earth to the Moon
Around the Moon
Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea
The Mysterious Island
Off on a Comet
The Floating Island
DR. OX AND OTHER STORIES

and used a lot of them in various challenges. I've enjoyed all of them as well as the H.G. Wells ones I've read

THE TIME MACHINE
THE ISLAND OF DOCTOR MOREAU
THE INVISIBLE MAN
THE WAR OF THE WORLDS
THE SEA LADY

As always, lots of great recommendations in this neighbourhood.

I'm not sure that conflating 19th and 20th century authors is a good idea, but I really don't know about their work, or the history of SF, well enough to judge.

Maybe not. . . .What qualifies as Classic SF?

A scholar friend of mine calls early SF works proto-Science Fiction. I’m not sure what she considers the cut-off date, but I think it’s probably fluid. I’m sure we can all agree that HG Wells and Verne wrote SF, but there is a lot of even earlier stuff where it’s hard to tell. Let me see if I can come up with some direct links or an explanation on her website (Dr. Amy H. Sturgis). General links for now:

https://www.amyhsturgis.com/

https://eldritchhobbit.dreamwidth.org/

CBRetriever, I have read

of the Jules Verne, I have read
A Journey to the Center of the Earth
Around the World in 80 Days
20000 Leagues under the Sea.
and want to read
A Floating City
5 Weeks in a Balloon
From the Earth to the Moon
Around the Moon.
Taking suggestion:
For the Flag

As for H G Wells ,
I have read
The Island of Dr Moreau
The Invisible Man
The Time Machine.
I have also read but didn't understand
The War of the Worlds.
I will try again someday.

By Verne I would suggest the little-known "For the Flag!" (or Facing the Flag). This is the archetypal Mad Scientist story: ditto for Ultimate Weapon. It had an impressive Czech movie version: see Wikipedia under the title "Invention for Destruction," which catalogues its various English titles.

By Wells, I would suggest two works, "The World Set Free" and "The Shape of Things to Come," two "Future Histories" rather than conventional novels. The former is supposed to have started Leo Szilard thinking about the real-world potential of the Atomic Bomb, which lead to him drafting a letter for Einstein to send to Franklin Roosevelt. Wells himself freely adapted the latter for the film "Things to Come," which is definitely worth watching, too.