Literary Exploration discussion

Final thoughts on Middlesex

I have read this book multiple times, and each time was a sensuous, informative journey.

Imho Eugenides is a master of the story telling craft. Lush, fully formed characters, a very well woven tapestry/history and gods, the choices and paths chosen!

Great choice!

Loved this book! The writing and storing telling were absolutely beautiful. I couldn't put it down it had me hooked from the first line! I liked how the story of the 3 generations were interwoven to tell the story of Cal and how he came to be the man he is today. This novel is perfectly beautiful I don't know any other way to describe it! 5 stars no question about it!

Big thanks to the group for voting for this book, even if I didn't vote for it. This book has been an absolute delight to read. It completely surpassed all my expectations.

I very much enjoyed how the "superstitions/science" of conception evolved over the generations.

I guess some people have criticized this novel for being too ambitious, and I have to admit that Eugenides put a dash of just about everything in this book, but nothing was unsatisfying for me. Each generation was given their due, and each contributed meaningfully to the other generations in the story.

I really loved this book. I agree with the above commenters regarding the storytelling ability of the author, and the fascinating plot and characters. The only (very small) drawback for me was the way the book ended. I would have liked to read a little more about Cal the man, and felt that this section of the book was lacking in detail that the rest of the book had in abundance.
I will definitely be reading more of his books.

Kylie wrote: "I really loved this book. I agree with the above commenters regarding the storytelling ability of the author, and the fascinating plot and characters. The only (very small) drawback for me was the..."

I agree. More could have been said about Cal, and I thought it was funny that the narrator spent so much time telling family history, and said little (relatively) about his life, especially after San Francisco. But, I guess if we look at Callie's story as a 'coming of age' story, it makes sense to end just after she comes to accept her condition.

Also, I find it difficult, or maybe just confusing, to talk about the narrator of this book because I never know which pronoun to use. I tend to switch depending on which part of the story I am talking about, but would it be better to simply use male pronouns because Cal ultimately identifies as a man?

It won a Pulitzer, but for me it's only 3 stars.
It is said that our greatest strengths, when taken to their extremes, become a weakness. That is how I feel about the author's writing in Middlesex. He is clearly a gifted, literary writer/storyteller, but his use of the first-person omniscient narrative (I'd have much preferred a third-person perspective) just doesn't work well for an epic three-generation story. And this objection is compounded by the pervasive storyline time jumps throughout the novel. With the author's writing ability, a straight chronological novel would have been much more satisfying.

Another plus: In addition to the strong literary quality of his writing, I greatly appreciated the attention to detail that resulted from the obviously extensive historical and scientific research that the author undertook to make this novel so informative.

On the other hand, I also agree with the final two commenters that I would have preferred the ending to describe more of Cal's adult life as a man.

Finally, I must comment on the author's bizarre choice of Cal's brother's name -- Chapter Eleven. The author's selection of this name was totally nonsensical to me and it caused both unnecessary wonderment and distraction whenever that name was encountered throughout the entire book. It is only very near the end that we read that Chapter Eleven takes over his father's (Milton's) successful business, but soon runs it into failure. So, Chapter 11 bankruptcy I presume is the reason for the author's selection of Cal's brother's name. To me, there is no way that a second-generation traditional Greek-American family would have given such an unusual name to a son at his birth. This is simply the most obvious example of the author going to excess and being too cutesy with his name choices.

I was confused by the name of Cal's brother throughout the whole book. I read an interview with Jeffrey Eugenides (but I can't remember where??) in which he said that Chapter Eleven is a nickname Cal has given his brother, and that this becomes clear later on in the novel, as you mentioned. I thought it was his real name - I don't remember there being any hint in the book that it wasn't his real name. He also said that he realised after the book was published that readers from countries other than America may not understand the significance of the nickname as it is an American term. I am Australian so that explains some of my confusion I guess :)

Ah, I found it - it was an Oprah Q&A.
http://www.oprah.com/oprahsbookclub/M...

I thought he was being humorous with the names in general - half expected him to call his mother Medea.

While I don't think it's worthy of the Pulitzer, I think it's a good book. Eugenides is a great writer, no doubt. He has a way with words. The characters were interesting and complex. I think his biggest downfall was trying to cram too many themes and ideas into one novel. That's a big pet peeve of mine. I think the book tries to say too much and it's already a lengthy book. And I agree, I thought Chapter Eleven's name was bizarre.

I enjoyed it from an analytical point of view, rather than becoming emotionally swept up in it. I still thought it was a good book.

I enjoyed the first 200 or so pages of the book but then it just became tedious - I agree with what Jeff said above about our greatest strengths becoming weaknesses when taken to extremes. He is a great writer and it was obviously well researched, but it just got too long. I read through to about page 300 and then skimmed the last 200 pages - it was simply too much. As far as the Chapter Eleven issue is concerned, Callie also refers to the red-headed girl as Obscure Object which, I guess, sets us up for the eventual revelation about Chapter Eleven's apt nick-name.

It just wasn't for me - I think it should have been either a generational novel or a novel about Callie/Cal. For me, it was an interesting premise, gone off course.

What a fabulous book! I loved that it included so many different things - a family saga, a coming of age story (with a difference), the story of Detroit, the burning of Smyrna and so on. The language is beautiful.

As a non- American reader, thank you for explaining the "Chapter Eleven" name - it makes perfect sense to me now.

I wonder what Chapter Eleven's name really was, he never did say, did he? I thought it must be a nickname, like Obscure Object.

I loved the writing style, very appealing, very easy to read. I was dipping in and out, and suddenly, yesterday it got really good, and I had a hard time putting it down. Fought droopy eyelids last night, to finish. :)

Dr. Luce was quite a jerk, eh?

What did everyone think of the central question of whether gender, as distinct from sex, was nature or nurture?

MK wrote: "I wonder what Chapter Eleven's name really was, he never did say, did he? I thought it must be a nickname, like Obscure Object.

I loved the writing style, very appealing, very easy to read. I was..."

MK,
In the text of the novel, Cal is clear that Obscure Object is the nickname he has given her. On the contrary, the novel never states that Chapter Eleven is a nickname (probably an oversight by the author in his writing). As Kylie points out in post #8, the author has, after publication of the book, now taken the position in an interview that Chapter Eleven is a nickname.

Dr Luce was pompous, but wasn't Callie also somewhat culpable in the mis-diagnosis since Callie consistently answered with lies to the doctor about her true feelings toward the opposite sex? Also regarding Dr Luce, given the author's tendencies to use cutesy names, perhaps Luce is short for Lucifer (the Devil)? This would certainly be consistent with the author's unflattering (to say the least) portrayal of both primary doctors in the novel. Both docs are largely incompetent at their profession.

Regarding your last question: to me the author seems to strongly support the nature argument. My own view is that it's more likely to be around 60% nature and 40% nurture. But, like you, I'm curious what other readers in this Group think about that.

I returned my copy of the book to the library so I can't say exactly where, but near the beginning of the book the bankruptcy of the diner (or possibly the restaurant?) is mentioned in close proximity to Chapter Eleven's name. I only remember it because the first few commentors in the first thread were curious about his name. I assumed at that point that Chapter Eleven would turn out to be born about the same time the diner went bankrupt but as it turns out, Chapter Eleven bankrupted the hot dog chain, hence receiving his irreverent nickname from Callie/Cal as he looks back and tells his story. A "some of the names have been changed to protect the innocent" kind of thing.

Excellent point on the doctor's name - Luce/Lucifer. Or on the other hand, perhaps Lucid? For finally bringing some clarity to the situation?

Why was the house called Middlesex? Did that take anyone else by surprise?

I had completely run out of steam for this book by page 300, and skimmed the last however many hundred pages so I am not sure what time period we were in when Callie actually went to see Dr. Luce and without getting too graphic, I never really understood the exact nature of the anatomical configurations. I can understand why Callie lied - children often tell you what they think you want to hear to avoid possible unpleasant consequences - but I didn't understand why Cal didn't eventually reconsider "corrective" surgery in that he seemed utterly lost and lonely in all of the bits that were about him in his current situation. But as I said, I lost track of the decades at the end and I could be saying that based on what are much better options in today's day and age. Dr. Luce's report seemed to mimic typewritten pages and someone mentioned the Berlin Wall, so I guess we are talking about the 60's at that point. It did seem to end on an up note when he finally met someone to whom he could honestly disclose his condition.

Karen wrote: "I returned my copy of the book to the library so I can't say exactly where, but near the beginning of the book the bankruptcy of the diner (or possibly the restaurant?) is mentioned in close proxim..."

Interesting post Karen. Thank you.

Regarding your question on the name Middlesex and its use as the title, I see a dual (and possibly triple) meaning by the author:

1. The most obvious meaning is Callie/Cal as a hermaphrodite, biologically neither fully male or fully female; rather her/his "sex" somewhere in the "middle".
2. Interestingly, Eugenides himself spent a portion of his youth living in a house in the Detroit suburb of Grosse Point on Middlesex Blvd. Yes, the Middlesex Blvd. referenced in the book is a real street in Grosse Point.
3. The third possible reference (although I think this one is more likely fiction than fact) is a word play on the novel "Middlemarch" by George Eliot. George Eliot is a male pen name for the female author Mary Ann Evans. Eugenides might be a fan of Eliot's writings. There of course is also a potential parallel here between the Evans/Eliot dual sexuality (as with Callie/Cal).

Jeff wrote: "Karen wrote: "I returned my copy of the book to the library so I can't say exactly where, but near the beginning of the book the bankruptcy of the diner (or possibly the restaurant?) is mentioned i..."

It was just startling to me - as it was probably meant to be - in that the obvious - or my obvious - allusion was to Callie/Cal so to put an extra emphasis on the word and then not provide any explanation seemed odd. Good thought on your third point especially since many people seem to confuse the titles or expect a similar plotline. In the end, it kept me reading for a bit longer, so whatever his reason, it worked on me!

Jeff wrote: "MK,
In the text of the novel, Cal is clear that Obscure Object is the nickname he has given her. On the contrary, the novel never states that Chapter Eleven is a nickname (probably an oversight by the author in his writing). As Kylie points out in post #8, the author has, after publication of the book, now taken the position in an interview that Chapter Eleven is a nickname.

Dr Luce was pompous, but wasn't Callie also somewhat culpable in the mis-diagnosis since Callie consistently answered with lies to the doctor about her true feelings toward the opposite sex? Also regarding Dr Luce, given the author's tendencies to use cutesy names, perhaps Luce is short for Lucifer (the Devil)? This would certainly be consistent with the author's unflattering (to say the least) portrayal of both primary doctors in the novel. Both docs are largely incompetent at their profession.

Regarding your last question: to me the author seems to strongly support the nature argument. My own view is that it's more likely to be around 60% nature and 40% nurture. But, like you, I'm curious what other readers in this Group think about that. "

Jeff, thankyou for redirecting me back up the thread. I missed most of it, as the first time(s) I clicked into the threads I hadn't yet read the book, so I opened the thread without doing more than a cursory (if that) scanning. Then, when I came back in this morning, I was heading out the door shortly, and posted without reading back. So, missed it all!

I love your comments on Lucifer/Dr. Luce. That feels like it might be right, to me!

The nature vs nurture is a hard one. In my mind, there is no doubt that conditioning affects you. But how much? The big question. I agree Mr. Eugenides seemed to come down hard on the nature side. But even he, seemed to say that nurture played a part two, when you look back at his various comments about how sometimes Callie surfaced, or sometimes Tessie still had her daughter, with regard to conversations or concerns that Tessie brought to Cal rather than Chapter Eleven.

Karen wrote: "hy was the house called Middlesex? Did that take anyone else by surprise? "

I don't know why, but yes, it took me by surprise too. In a funny way, I thought it amusing. I like the various interpretations Jeff brings to the locating of the house on Middlesex. The name works on many levels.

Sara wrote: "What a fabulous book! I loved that it included so many different things - a family saga, a coming of age story (with a difference), the story of Detroit, the burning of Smyrna and so on. The lang..."

The burning of Smyrna was the hardest part of the book for me. I had a hard time reading that. Awful ....

While speaking of his grandmother and great uncle Cal said "Watch closely" - and then went on to describe Lefty lighting a church candle.
That statement "Watch Closely" sounded like something a magician would say or infer, and of course where they want you to look is not where the actual magic/trick/whatever is taking place, it's a distraction. Then Cal went further into Desdemona and Lefty's thoughts, etc. So - upshot - I became suspicious of fictional memoirist :) - and wherever there is more than one interpretation or relying on Cal's perspective/conjecture only (not historical facts), the thought is still there, what is the other side. It was an unusual statement for him to make and as if he had stepped out of both the story and the first person and commenting on both.

I tend to agree with those who said that they lost steam reading the second half. I actually liked the parts NOT about Cal much more (the family history, getting to America, etc) than the parts where the novel moves closer to the present and Cal's situation (in grade school, experimenting with others, Obscure Object, etc). Maybe the book is just wearing on me. At times the prose is spot on and brilliant, but then it feels so overwritten too. It seems like it wants to be a family saga one minute and something else the next. The narrator sort of grates on my nerves too. I think a blurb on the back described the writing style as "cheeky" and that is an apt way to put how the story is presented. About 100 or so pages left, maybe my opinion will change.

Whew! I finally finished. I too lost steam but having run out of renewals I had to commit to finishing Middlesex by today. I've enjoyed reading your posts - it's comforting to know that I wasn't alone in my issues with this title.

However, I did not experience difficulty with the nicknames, I think because of one of the First Impressions posts that theorized 'Chapter Eleven' possibly referring to the expense of having children, and the cousins names being a complete set from Greek mythology, along with Calliope, herself.

Cal's journey to self discovery felt authentic to me. I think my interest waned during the race riots because I didn't (and still don't) understand the significance of Milton going to the Zebra Room, nor Callie going to rescue him.

I felt that Dr. Luce should have known/seen though Callie's lies, given her age and that pleasing adults was her way. It seems Dr. Luce didn't see the people he was "treating" as well as he saw/understood their physicality. Perhaps the failures of both doctors was meant to convey how very little humans, even doctors, understand about human life. I once heard a quote with respect to human reproduction that I can only paraphrase: on the first day of medical school, doctors believe that everyone can reproduce, on the last day they believe it's a miracle that anybody can reproduce. With every bit of learning and understanding comes a multitude more that we don't understand. And, of course, the good old standby: pride goeth before a fall.

I'm tempted to say that I'll read Middlesex again, most likely when my son is a teenager. Foremost to remember midnight nursing sessions, and secondly to remind me how confusing and terrifying puberty can be. But only time will tell how deeply this book has touched my subconscious.