Words of Radiance discussion

Firstly I love this series and this book, especially after just having read the chapters about an amazing duel.

But I can't help but feel annoyed that a character that I have not resonated with at all from the first book, and just find annoying and boring, gets so many chapters. I don't even find her backstory interesting. At one point she gets three chapters in a row dedicated to her, after reading the first two I had to put the book down and come back to it later out of sheer boredom. What do you guys think of her?

I can't even tell if I'm meant to find her funny. Some very small spoilers if you haven't read at least 50%

(view spoiler)[When she's pretending to be a Horneater. I cringed. When she starts asking Adolin how do you poo in Shardplate? What??????? (hide spoiler)]

I think my main problem is that I just don't find her character engaging or interesting. Even her spren is boring. If the rest of the characters and storylines weren't so awesome it might have ruined the first half of the book for me. Hopefully from this point on there's a bit less of her but I'm not holding my breathe.

Sorry for the rant but I don't have too much time to read these day so it really grates me when I always seem to be reading her chapters. :)

I was completely opposite! I loved Shallan's character in this, especially the addition of her humorous situations that you mentioned disliking. I love that this book was primarily about her and developing her character.

The first book was about developing Kaladin's character and backstory, and so we all grew attached to having the story follow mostly only Kaladin--Because of this I can understand people not enjoying having a lot of Shallan in this one, but she deserves some focus as well, since she is the main female protagonist in the story.

I think Sanderson is going to use each book, at least for a while, to specifically focus one major character's development and history, while doing a little more minor development in the others.

If he had not spent so much time in Shallan's storyline in this book, the story would not have progressed at the pace that it should, and many of her later actions in the book would not have made any sense.

lol I was KINDA thinking the same thing. I wanted to read more on Kaladin and Dalinar Kholin hell even Jasnah would have been cool. Now don’t get me wrong, i LOVE Shallan I was not sure i liked where she was going with all the lies and stuff and i did notice she had way too many chapters. I planned to glaze past her stuff and pay att. in the next read but that didn’t go my way lol. And i agree with Rachel. This will be a 10 book saga so each character will have their 15 min even if i want it to be all Kaladin all the time lol lol But i think Brandon has done it with these book he got me back into reading with mistborn and now is my favorite author and this is my Favorite book series

Yeah, that was similar to what I felt. Alone, I also found Shallan's part boring. I feel, her parts become interesting only when she shares screen with other main characters(put Kaladin, Jasnah, Adolin here). Rest of her arc in both WoK and WoR were unreadable for me. That Tyn part was particularly terrible.
When they meet Kal, I thought, good, now this boring part will get over as Shallan hands over Tyn to the guards, then safely go meet Dalinar with Kal's guards. But then I was like 'what?', you really gonna listen to that conlady? act as horneater really? to even consider conning Dalinar? That was stupid.
Hopefully, she stays with our main characters in the next books throughout.

@ Rachel
I knew this book would focus more on her, I was just expecting it to be a bit more interesting, though I agree with Sirius in that now she's at the Shattered Plains and interacted with other main characters, her chapters are more bearable. But her journey from the boat to the Shattered Plains was a boring read.

@Tony
I agree, I'm always waiting for the Kaladin chapters, but I guess this is always the case with multiple POV books, you're always going to like some more then others.

@Sirius
That's exactly what I was thinking when she start putting on the accent, why would she risk upsetting and conning the person whose trust she needs?


I'm 80% into the book now and my worst nightmare might be coming true

(view spoiler)[Throughout this book especially I've been thinking that Kaladin needs a lady friend, why does it look like it's going to end up being Shallan? urgh. I thought they might develop that stable lady a bit more. Hopefully they don't go down the route of Shallan and Kaladin. Her and Adolin are fine (hide spoiler)]

I kinda felt the same way too;I wasn't fascinated /captivated from the first page to the last one like it was with twok .. i thought at first that may be i was expecting too much and seeing how we ended up waiting a long time for the next release (that was like adding oil on fire )my expectations grew exponentially.
However after finishing the book and even though i ended up loving Shallan's character (against all odds) i found that her presence and insiting on her childhood was way too exagerated : ok i really loved how her mother wanted to kill her and the way her father acted and the consequences were very well written but ..reading about Renalin or jasnah's childhood would've been better .. hopefully the auther will shed some light on more intersting characters (IMHO ) and yes the part about the poo was .. a failed attempt at showing her humor ..

I'm going to read part 5 tonight, so don't post spoilers past that point without tags please :D

Admittedly I'm not too bothered about her mother/past so I don't mind that spoiler much.

Have finished the book now, liked it a lot. My perception of Shallan hasn't really changed, I guess she became a bit less annoying but that's probably down to the fact that she didn't dominate the last few chapters as much.

Why do I feel like Sanderson is going down

(view spoiler)[ a love triangle route? Hopefully he introduces and develops a new female character if he wants Kaladin to have romantic feelings for someone. Love triangles in books are the bane of my life. Especially when one character is my favourite and the other I find annoying. Adolin and Shallan work fine, no love triangle please (hide spoiler)]

I am just happy that shallans book is out of the way now. Bring on szeth in book 3

I'm only around 36% and it is really annoying to read her parts. I find her extremely annoying and childish and I wasn't feeling this way for her in the first book.

@Sirius, I couldn't agree with you more, she couldn't have acted more stupid. What was the whole point??! Jasnah (view spoiler)[is dead. (hide spoiler)] And she just decides to have fun and play pretend when she is supposedly aware of the danger that is coming? Why not go with the guards that is going exactly where you need to be going and let her family know that Jasnah(view spoiler)[is actually dead?? (hide spoiler)]
She is so full of herself. I'm not even sure I want her with Adolin and she better not get close to Kaladin!

Arrggghhh! I'm just so annoyed with her...

I understand giving Shallan lots of page time to inforce her importance as a central figure, but I didn't care for Shallan in TWOK and my anti-Shallan feelings became stronger in WOR because of all her page time filled with the stupidity of her actions. The main problems I had with Jordan's WOT series was all the stupid unnecessary secrets between characters who were friends and allies which forced problems that had to be overcome. It seems Sanderson is employing that method to build tension. For me, it just causes annoyance.

@Deshi I'm with you on the Shallan, Kaladin thing. I hope Sanderson doesn't go down that road.

I wish there was a detailed Glossary available during the read. When there's so many years between a book & you have such a vast world it would be more than helpful!
I also agree that the book seemed to drag during the Shallan chapters, but I still like the character. I guess kaladin is so awesome-that's it's hard to read when he's not in them. Also I believe there should be more action chapters - when you write a tome in access of 1100 pages it would lessen the readers fatigue?

I'm just about half way now and must admit that I'm far more interested in the Kaladin chapters than any of the others. And much prefer it when Shallan is interacting with other characters.

A glossary would be very helpful. That's one thing I really liked about the Mistborn books.

I thought Shallan was more interesting than Kaladin in this book, who moped too much. I also thought Pattern was hilarious.

Pattern is a G i LOVED him.. and i agree Kaladin was a mopey little Bi#$h in this book. But i like the Kaladin story line the best. I did think he would be better and happier after getting on Daninar crew. I think that will happen in the next book lol

Huh. I see this a lot. And I'll have to disagree. Shallan has, currently, the most interesting story and characters involved. Also, her flashbacks out-did Kaladin's in my opinion. And that's saying something since Kaladin's were pretty great. And the climax of that, as well as the turns in current-time, coupled with Pattern and Mraize. Just so great.

I am on the anti-Shallan side. I love Kaladin and can't wait to read his story, but I always sigh when its time to focus on Shallan. I was even hoping for more Jasnah over Shallan....

Alexander wrote: "I am on the anti-Shallan side. I love Kaladin and can't wait to read his story, but I always sigh when its time to focus on Shallan. I was even hoping for more Jasnah over Shallan...."

Kaladin's history is in the first book, I don't think we will see more flashbacks from him. I'm hoping we see some flashbacks from Szeth.

If I remember correctly, Szeth is on the list for a book with flashbacks.

Szeth is the next book!

Awesome.

Shallan's chapters were great. It took me a while to turn my attention from Kaladin to Shallan due to getting attached to him in the first book. But I found Shallan really grew on me. She's a great character. I hope the next book focuses on Jasnah and Szeth. Also Lift cause she's awesome.

As I get further into the book (now up to page 600) Shallan is growing on me more as well.

One of the things I love about this book is that I found every character likable. I didn't think Shallan was boring.

In the first book, I found myself wanting to get through Kaladin's chapters to get to Shallan's chapters. In WoR, I found the opposite happening; I wanted more of Kaladin and less of Shallan. I'm not entirely sure why that is, but I enjoyed both characters' storylines very much.

I will say this in defense of Shallan and her inconsistency and bad choices: (view spoiler)[Shallan is, what, seventeen or eighteen now, and up until recently, right before Way of Kings began, she lived in a dysfunctional household with an abusive father and several older brothers who have their own issues. She spent most of her life shut away or acting like the perfect child in order to keep up appearances to to try and maintain the stability of her family's house. Considering she's had very little contact with anyone other than her family and their maids, I think Shallan is doing pretty well after being shipwrecked right after making a discovery that Roshar's servants might soon uprise and destroy the already precariously balanced world. Not to mention the fact that Shallan was nearly murdered by her mother and later poisoned and then strangled her father. It's amazing she's as mentally sane as she is and that she managed (with Pattern's help) to survive the shipwreck and make her way to Dalinar. Even if she made some bad choices, I don't think that makes her a bad character.

There's also this thing called "character development," and in order for that to happen, a character has to make some lame and nonsensical choices and then deal with the consequences. I think Shallan has performed pretty well with that. (hide spoiler)]

For me I think the problem is when the characters make a mistake, which I as a reader can see as stupid. For example : (view spoiler)[I hated when Kaladin "killed" Syl with his decision about the killing of the king. (hide spoiler)] And the faking the horneater thing from Shallan.

But those "stupid" decisions usually make sense from the point of view of the character, especially the one I mentioned from Kaladin. As for Shallan, I think she's acting like a scarred teenager. And as a father, I can attest to how stupid teenagers can be. :-) And this book was really about working on her character.

I hope he doesn't go down the love triangle route either, I just don't see it working. Although after what happened at the ending there will probably be some things for Adolin to deal with in the next book.

I thought (view spoiler)[Kaladin and Shallan stuck in the chasm together all by themselves (hide spoiler)] made up for all the confusion and learning we had to endure with Shallan and all the moping around we had to endure with Kaladin. BTW (view spoiler)[ Kaladin was extremely racist more so than any character (hide spoiler)] I loved how that played out. I am definately glad Shallan is out of the way. I do wish she had went more into practicing magic and less into ..lying? meh. The cheesiest of all was (view spoiler)[ the Dragonball Z rip off of flying super heroes. (hide spoiler)] I do hope Sanderson tones that down several notches.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who hates Shallan (maybe hate is a too strong of a word), I don't find her witty or clever, however many times she reminds us of it. And (for me) she just comes across as a snob. However, I do like her interactions with (view spoiler)[ Kaladin. The characters fit each other, even though we have seem this sort of relationship in Sanderson's other books (again and again). I would almost like to see either Kaladin or Shallan turn to the 'dark side', though I doubt very much Sanderson would ever go that route. (hide spoiler)]

She kind of is a snob. She's a light eyes. She was raised isolated and to think of herself as "better than". I think she's evolving beyond her upbringing which is part of her arch and a concept Sanderson likes to play with.

I would call her ability a camouflage rather than lying. It's quite interesting. She's like a less efficient mystique. She also has the ability to impact how others see themselves. I'm looking forward to it.

What do you all think of a Kaladin/Jasnah matchup? Wouldn't that be a hoot? And no, she's not too old for him.

I was looking forward to that matchup before WOR. But after that Kaladin/Shallan sequence, I kinda forgot about that matchup. Now I dono how it is gonna playout, as Kaladin is so much younger and also not as mature as Jasnah, as we see in WoR. That matchup was possible only because I thought Kal is mature enough for Jasnah. Now not sure. But imo Jasnah is lot better than Shallan.

Jasnah, I think is a bit too independent for that. I don't really seeing her together with anyone.

I think a kal/jas match up is a great idea. Kaladin isn't frivolous which Jas will like. He's also educated in his own way. As for kal, Jas is gorgeous and capable. Funny but not silly like shallan.

Just bc a woman is independent doesn't mean she wouldn't welcome a relationship. Just means she doesn't need one to be happy.

True, but I just have a hard time imagining her being interested in anything other than her mission. Maybe independent wasn't the right word, focused is probably the word I should have used.

jas is only around 25 but they assume she's old because she isn't married yet. So they already consider her a spinster. But so what if she's a few years older than him? The age difference is like what 5 years? Not that wide of a gap in either direction. Isn't there a similar age gap between shallan and adolin?

Kaladin is 15 years younger to Jasnah, which in fact is a big gap in age. But Adolin is 5 years older than Shallan, which is very usual. So, I say, Jasnah is too old for Kaladin. But who knows, what Brandon thinks and decides. :)

Whoa I didn't realize kaladin was that young. What are their ages? I thought kaladin was in his early 20s max.

JaphiaHart wrote: "Whoa I didn't realize kaladin was that young. What are their ages? I thought kaladin was in his early 20s max."

I shouldn't be here >__< I haven't read Words yet. But by the end of Way of Kings Kaladin is 20 years old. Shallan is 17

Nelson. Don't spoil it! It's so good. Get out. And don't come back until you've read it. Lol.

JaphiaHart wrote: "Nelson. Don't spoil it! It's so good. Get out. And don't come back until you've read it. Lol."

Hahaha I'm covering my eyes to read only what you have written D: bye bye thread. But yeah by the title of this thread I guess Sanderson didn't lie when he said this is Shallan book, the 3rd is Dalinar's and the 4th will be Szeth's

Ahora sí, adios!

I thought Jasnah was 30, not 35.

According to coppermind.net Jasnah was born in 1139 and Kaladin was born in 1153.

That's a 14 year age difference. Quite significant. So ya jas and kal will probably not be a thing. Which is fine. They all have bigger things to deal with than hooking up.

i actually like shallan and enjoyed her chapters especially about her past. a lot of her is kept a mystery in the first book, it seems like sh's a simple character but i knew there was more to her. and i kept guessing and i had more fun reading the second book because i was looking forward to proving or disproving my theories that i had about her.
from the first time she and kaladin met there's a spark, but i don't know if i like them together. not looking forward to a love triangle thing, sooo overdone, soo YA.

I for one did not find her that witty at all. It seems so contrived sometimes. And when she tried to insult Kaladin by mentioning his parents, I was livid!

I'm genuinely surprised so many people dislike Shallan in this book. My favorite thing about Way of Kings and Words of Radiance was that I loved all the characters pretty much equally and found them all engaging. They each have faults with them that are frustrating at times.

Kaladin often time fails to see the bigger picture and as much as he hates inherent inequality about the darkeyes/lighteyes system, he downright hates people for having lighteyes regardless of their actions ::coughDalinarcough:: proving that they are good people.

Shallan is childish and quick to insult (whether or not you find her insults witty or dumb just comes down to your personal opinion, I guess.)

Dalinar has Ned Stark qualities when it comes to political intrigue and is blunt and stubborn beyond belief.

Adolin is egotistical and can be easily goaded into anger.

They're all complicated characters with faults and features that make them interesting. I'm very eager to see how they'll grow in upcoming books.

[quote]They're all complicated characters with faults and features that make them interesting. I'm very eager to see how they'll grow in upcoming books. [/quote]

Yes, me too. Considering Shallan's brother's killing and the outcome of that and how many of them have become Knights Radiant.

Jennifer wrote: "Kaladin often time fails to see the bigger picture and as much as he hates inherent inequality about the darkeyes/lighteyes system, he downright hates people for having lighteyes regardless of their actions ::coughDalinarcough:: proving that they are good people.

Shallan is childish and quick to insult (whether or not you find her insults witty or dumb just comes down to your personal opinion, I guess.)"

It's true that having known Kaladin's back story I was defensive when her insult involved his parents. I think from the chain above, no one is seriously disliking Shallan but just finds her chapters less exciting.

IMHO Kaladin does not hate Dalinar. He is prejudiced against lighteyes because of Roshone and Amaram, who collectively brought out the worse in him. He sure does not hate Renarin and in fact admitted to Shallan that Adolin is a good man and he didn't give him enough credit for him. He was initially unsure if he can trust Dalinor and then was angry at him but I wouldn't call it hate per se.

Credit to Sanderson for bringing to life characters which feel so real. I have never felt so emotionally invested in the characters of a book until The Stormlight Archive.

I'm a big fan of this series and Sanderson in general. I'm also one of the ones who dislikes Shallan. My main frustration is how she is absolutely AMAZING at everything she does. She goes from never having done something to automatically being professional-grade at it. I understand that she is a Knight Radiant, but man, it got a bit tiring reading how she can do EVERYTHING. Sanderson does throw in some foreshadowing at the end that maybe, just maybe, she has gotten in over her head with a few things, so maybe I'll be able to like her more at that point.

Oh boy, I didn't like Shallan very much in the first book. I thought her cleverness/wit was too exaggerated It seemed like she was trying way too hard; a sarcastic quip shouldn't be a paragraph long! But then both Jasnah and Kaladin told her exactly what I was thinking and it made me so relieved that Sanderson purposefully wrote her like that. I LOVED Shallan in WoR. She definitely grew on me. I also love the idea of her with Kaladin. She is so light-hearted and silly, whereas Kaladin so just so dark. I feel like he needs somebody like her to be able to smile again.