A Song of Ice and Fire - A Chapter a day discussion

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I found myself liking Catelyn more and more this second time around.

1-Catelyn encounters the Stark bannermen in White Harbor. I wonder if Robb wrote her telling her where he was going to be, but I don't think so. He seemed surprised to see her.

2-She is proud of her son, and she should. He is 15 years old, and has an army, even if he is not too sure about some of them. But they followed him, and that is huge for a 15 year old. I liked this: "A year ago he had been a boy. What was he now? she wondered."

3-I really, really like the description of moat Catlin. I like how is told, how it was the stronghold of the First Men, how maybe the children of the forest were there at some point. It seems like a really cool place to look at.

4-She thinks Robb is playing a man's part. I think he is doing great, but it must be so hard, to handle all of this all so sudden. I think he is still a boy at this point, although he is trying really hard, and is doing good so far.

5-The way all the Starks bannermen start to pay their respects to her, makes me think they really respect her. It seems people can tell she is a strong woman.

6-Brynden is with her now! I am glad he finally left Lysa, she is a waste of time. And him and Catelyn seem to have a really good relationship, so it's good he is around.

7-I forgot when Robb asked about Ser Rodrik he said he missed him. It made me happy, I don't know. And I am glad Catelyn named him Castellar of Winterfell. He deserves it.

8-Lysa's stupidity at this point is beyond question. Of course she said no to Catelyn's offer of taking Robert to Winterfell, but telling her not to steal her son? Wtf. I don't understand this woman, and I don't think I ever will.

9-The way Robb asked Catelyn if she meant to send him back to Winterfell, I think it shows how much he needs someone to tell him what to do, since all of this is new and he is so young. I really like the relationship Robb has with his mother.

10-Robb shows her Sansa's letter, the one that was sent to him, because he didn't bring hers. Catelyn knows Cersei was the one who wrote that letter, and it must be so hard for both of them to know nothing about Arya. It makes me think Robb really appreciate her. I don't think they are as close as she and Jon are, but they have something there.

11-Of course Lysa won't help and will stay as far away from everything as possible. I just can't with this woman.

12-Robb's army is 18000 strong, a lot of people. Again, Robb is still a boy, looking at her mother for answers. But she doesn't have any.

13-I think at this point is really clear Catelyn knows how this game works, and she's better at it than Ned. She knows if they capture Jaime or Tywin, Cersei won't hurt her daughters. So long as they have power, no harm will come to Sansa and Arya, if they have her. Catelyn is really smart.

14-It's discouraging to know how much bigger Tywin and Jaime's armys are. Gregor killed almost everyone in the party ned sent to kill him. Seems like Beric and Thoros made it. Robb thinks he figured out some part of Tywin's plan, and I have to say, that man knows how this works.

15-This made me think: "She knew what sorts of men they were, each one. She wondered if Robb did." If not all of them are what they seem, why doesn't she tell Robb?

16-Catelyn's change was so sudden, lol. But I think what she said to Robb helped him. She was raw, but he needed that. Command, Robb! Also, his plan sounds good, even if it wasn't entirely his invention.

17-Catelyn tells him not to trust Lord Frey. *SPOILERS FOR A STORM OF SWORDS*(view spoiler)[Sadly, they both forget that. (hide spoiler)]. I don't think it's much of a good idea to send Bolton instead of the Greatjon to fight Tywin. He seems so empty.

18-She now thinks she donned her sons and Ned before anything, and wants to go to Riverrun, where her father is probably dying. This resolution must have been really hard to make. She is strong.

I didn't even think about that, your point 15. Why didn't Catelyn warn Robb about his father's bannermen? She warned him about Late Walder Frey, but that's about it. Strange. Maybe she only has a feeling about them, but no concrete evidence to judge them by.

And I agree, I am really liking Catelyn the second time around. :)

And your point 17, I think the point of that conversation is that just because someone is fearless, that does not mean they are brave, or even smart -- which to me I think is very true. The Greatjon might have given away their hidden motives, whereas Bolton is cunning and just might outsmart Tywin, another cunning person! *SPOILER FOR UPCOMING CHAPTERS IN A GAME OF THRONES* (view spoiler)[However, I don't know how Bolton feels about being the sacrificial lamb, since most of his men get slaughtered by the Lannisters in Robb's attempt to keep Tywin's eyes on Bolton and off of him. That may be one reason he betrays Robb in the end. Bolton never seems to fear anything, either. :( (hide spoiler)]

1. Catelyn and Brynden Tully arrive in White Harbor and are accompanied by the two Manderly sons of the lord of White Harbor. She is glad to see the Stark banner above the place. White Harbor has about 1,500 fighting men to join Robb Stark’s cause.

2. Lord Wyman Manderly is in his 60‘s and is too fat to ride a horse. His two sons are also very fat, barely able to ride their own horses, but they are to accompany her to see her son. Though they are very fat and their clothes are stained with food, Catelyn likes them.

3. Catleyn is excited and proud of Robb, who’s leading a host to war.

4. The encampment is at Moat Cailin, on the neck separating the North from the Riverlands. The soil is very soft here. It’s situated near a boggy swamplands. Much of Moat Cailin is now rubble and gone. Only three towers of 20 still stand. It was made by the First Men, very old. Even the still standing towers look shabby; slanted, moss-covered, and one has a tree growing out of it. Brynden Tully is not all that impressed at first glance, but Catelyn says it’s actually very formidable, despite its looks. The only way pass the Neck is to move through Moat Cailin, since everywhere there are bogs and sinkholes and poisonous snakes. You can’t climb the walls because it’s so slimy, and it’s said at night the ghosts come out, hungry for southron blood. :)

5. The Karstarks have the Drunkard Tower, the Umbers the Children’s Tower, but Robb holds the Gate House Tower.

6. I love Catelyn here, though she desperately wants to run to Robb and hug and kiss him and never let go she dares not do it in front of his lords, for he’s playing hte man’s part now and she’d make him look weak. :) She will not be that annoying mom right now.

7. Grey Wind is bigger now than any wolf ought to be. And Robb’s grown a red beard. :) She says she likes it; it makes him look like his Uncle Edmure. Um...is that a compliment? lol.

8. One by one all the lords welcome her, paying their respects. They all seem to genuinely like her. hey also expected her to have gone to Winterfell, not here. Apparently she sent Ser Rodrik north to be castellan at Winterfell.

9. It’s interesting that Roose Bolton’s voice is so small, but when he speaks larger men quiet to listen. Cat describes his eyes as pale and his look disturbing. He asks about Tyrion.

10. Apparently, just before leaving the Eyrie, she had offered to take Lord Robert with her to Winterfell, as it’d do him a lot of good to be with other boys his own age, but stupid Lysa says, “sister or no, if you try to steal my son, you will leave by the moon door.” WTF!?! Cat can’t even hold back her anger in front of the men, and calls her sister a fool.

11. They leave the two of them alone together and they catch up. She basically chastises Robb for being too young, only 15, and at first he is angry, but it soon disappears and softly asks if she’s sending him back to Winterfell, lol. She says she wants to, but it would look bad and he’s come so far already. She needs them to respect him, and if she sends him away now they’ll never forget that. “Laughter is poison to fear. I will not do that to you, much as I might wish to keep you safe.” :) He thanks her, relieved. Cat is a wise mother. She’s encouraging her son to be an adult.

12. Then she makes him uncomfortable by touching him and saying she remembers when he came squalling into this world, lol. She just couldn’t resist that one, could she? Ha!

13. Robb then shows her Sansa’s letter. Right away Cat says this is Cersei’s work. They are keeping Sansa as a hostage, and they both are troubled that she makes no mention of Arya.

14. Robb had hoped to use Tyrion to trade him for his sisters. He’d also hoped Aunt Lysa would call the Arryn banners, but no such luck on that front... Robb breaks down and begs for her advice. Once again she sees he’s only 15-years-old, with 18,000 men and he doesn’t know what to do. He just wants his family back, it seems.

15. Catelyn says if he bends the knee Cersei would never let him leave King’s Landing, but if he retreats to Winterfell he’ll lose the respect of his men and some will even go over to the Lannisters. And with them as no threat, Cersei can do anything she likes with her prisoners, so Robb has no choice but to fight, and hope he wins, maybe capture Tywin or Jaime for a hostage of their own. But he can’t give up now. She tells him like it is: if he loses, though...remember what happened to Rhaegar’s children? Robb vows he will not lose then. :)

16. Cat asks for the news on the battle front. It sounds terrible for the Riverlanders. Jaime is pushing Edmure’s forces back further, and the small army led by Lord Beric and Raymun Darry was trapped, Gregor Clegane came from behind and slew Raymun Darry and it’s not sure what happened to the rest of the party as they scattered, but most of Ned’s men that went with them were killed. “Grim and grimmer,” thinks Catelyn. It’s even worse than she thought.

17. I didn’t realize Robb had sent a letter to Howland Reed for help; makes sense, as Greywater Castle is close by. He will keep the Lannisters from going north, at least.

18. Robb believes Tywin will take his time, conquering each castle in the Riverlands, one by one until Riverrun is last. They can’t stay idle in Moat Cailin, they’ll have to meet him down south, in battle. Cat can tell his bannermen lords talking through him. “She knew what sorts of men they were, each one. She wondered if Robb did.” Interesting...doesn’t sound like she trusts them. But she also sees what they mean. She asks what he means to do.

19. I like how stern she gets with him suddenly, telling him to go home if he’s not certain. His bannermen will not want him as their leader if he can’t command. This startles Robb, as it did me. Then she repeats again, “What do you mean to do?” :)

20. He then tells her his plan, which I think is pretty smart for a 15-year-old. :) He plans to split his army in two, one to basically deceive Tywin, the other to cross the Twins and catch the kingslayer by surprise, also splitting their armies. Cat is also impressed, despite herself, though she tells Robb not to trust the Freys, who hold the Twins, as even though they’re her father’s bannermen, he’s always been late to join battle, hense: “Late Walder Frey.” Robb promises he won’t trust him -- but he doesn’t know...

21. I like that Robb chooses to take the more dangerous task himself, as Ned always had done, according to Catelyn.

22. But when she asks who will attack Tywin, Robb says the Greatjon because he’s fearless, telling her about the time Grey Wind ate two of his fingers and he laughed about it. But Cat says his father is not fearless, he's brave, but that’s not the same thing. Robb realizes what she’s saying. He decides on Roose Bolton instead for his cold cunning. He also adds the man scares him. And I laughed at: “Then let us pray he will scare Tywin Lannister as well.”

23. But when Robb says he’ll find an escort to take her back to Winterfell she says she’s not going back, but to her family in Riverrun instead, because it sounds like they need her. Her dad is old and dying and Edmure is surrounded by foes. “I must go to them.”

Maybe she does just have a feeling, but she could've just said it was a feeling, and he would have kept it in mind.

Yes, I thought so too. And I probably thought about it that way because I have read the books, but I don't think I felt like that the first time I red it. *SPOILER FOR UPCOMING CHAPTERS IN A GAME OF THRONES* (view spoiler)[I don't think Bolton liked it that much. But I think he is not a man you can trust. I don't think Tywin does anyway. (hide spoiler)]