Jane Austen discussion

Tilney returns to Bath with his sister, and we meet General Tilney, a few walks with the Tilneys and ill-fated carriage rides with the Thorpes take place.

Hello NA fans! I had completely forgotten how much I love this novel - been whizzing through it...that is until I got to Chapter 8 and had to endure Mr Thorpes' revolting behaviour. I honestly did not think anyone was worse than Mr Elton!

I agree, Michelle! He was so maddening! Had I been Catherine, I would have expressed my opinion about his silly topics with more determination. But Catherine was so sweet and naive that couldn't be mad at anyone. :) I also disliked Thorpe's sister. Isabella is such a silly girl! I had forgotten so many things!

Maria, don't even get me started on Isabella! She's an operator of note. Lol.

I was entertained by Isabella.

She was funny!

Michelle-LOL! :D

Andrea-No. Mrs. Allen was funny. Isabella was... not funny! Hahaha! Sorry, but girls like her always get on my nerves! :P

Oh the Thorpes..... Do not like them at all!!!

You know what I'm loving about this part? Catherine's behavior! It's not just self-interest that makes her do what's right, but her own conviction of what right is. "If I could not be persuaded into doing what I thought wrong, I never will be tricked into it." Well done, little Cathy!

Catherine has a good head on her shoulders.

Good question, Michelle, by the way: Is Mr. Thorpe worse than Mr. Elton?

Mr Thorpe is worse than Mr Elton.

Mr Elton was never a mindless rattle prone to saying things that are untrue to try to make himself look better than he is.

Mr Elton was never a lying braggart as is Thorpe.

I think I agree; at least you could get away from Mr. Elton, and his confusion wasn't unnatural given the circumstances, although he certainly was mean-spirited. But it would take a bomb blowing him to smithereens to get rid of Thorpe and his horrible bragging. He's a pig.

Maria wrote: "Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "Mr Thorpe is worse than Mr Elton.

Mr Elton was never a mindless rattle prone to saying things that are untrue to try to make himself l..."

Mr. Elton was after Emma, right? Because she was pretty and rich and he thought she was encouraging him?

Karlyne wrote: "Maria wrote: "Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "Mr Thorpe is worse than Mr Elton.

Mr Elton was never a mindless rattle prone to saying things that are untrue to try to ..."

Oh, right! I wrote Elton thinking of Edmund Betram... I don't like him either! Haha! Sorry! :P

Alright. I had to correct my comment! There are two male characters I dislike: Mr. Elton and Mr. Bertram. Elton is creepy and Edmund is blind. But the worse among Austen characters is definitely Mr. Thorpe. At least Elton knew that Emma was rich. Thorpe just assumed that!

Kathy does have a good head on her shoulders. :)

Thorpe is bad, and yes he assumed that because the Allens were rich, she would benefit from it. Thorpe is just an idiot.

I don't mind Edmund too much. He's not my cup of tea, but Fanny loves him! But when it comes to having to be around a nasty, vulgar, bragging pig, Thorpe takes the bacon!

Although Mr. Collins is pretty awful, too...

Henry Tilney is so witty that I hope Catherine does grow in her realization of it. She so often just can't figure out when he's teasing and when he's being serious that no wonder he, gently, laughs at her. I also like that his sister helps Catherine understand him.

I like that though Catherine is drawn to HT, she isn't the simpleton Marianne was in S/S--and they are the same age too. Catherine is dignified and not man-crazy over her first male of interest.

Miss Tilney is a really nice girl. Though she sees that C is interested in her brother, she's very nice about it.

C wasn't sophisticated enough to be skilled enough to try to hide/pretend about her interest in HT. But I think the appeal of C for Miss Tilney, is that it is obvious that C likes HT, doesn't play games about her interest and does not make Miss Tilney feel made use of to attract HT. Though C likes HT, Miss Tilney can feel that C is interested in getting better acquainted with her for her own (Miss Tilney's) sake.

There are times when I just want to smack Isabella. Her brother is just a total pig- his "proposal" sums up perfectly his character and what's important to him. But Isabella, I don't actually think she places any value on her friendship with Catherine, just what she can get out of it. She couldn't possibly run around chasing boys on her own, so Catherine fits into this slot!

I read NA when I was about 17 and 2 years or so later I had the misfortune of meeting my own Isabella. It's so easy to mistake that kind of person for being genuine and caring for you. I was so naïve and went above and beyond trying to keep them happy- which they never are unless you bend over backwards to please. I was cheering for Catherine when she held firm and kept her plan for the walk with the Tilneys.

Thorpe always talking horses and gigs, curricles to Catherine is like a present-day young lady on a date or at a party with a guy who only talks of his car or cars in general.

In both cases, Thorpe and my example, the men are too egotistical to make themselves agreeable company to a young lady and puffed up with their own importance that EVERYTHING that they do is of interest.

With regard to Isabella's "style of friendship," she doesn't support Catherine's interests at all. Isabella wants C at her beck and call, and only wants Catherine to be HER friend.

I had an Isabella-like "friend" from nursery school until I was around 20 or so. Nothing that interested me had any importance to her. When I think on it, the only reason that I can give for putting up with her for over 20 years is that we were infants/toddlers together and our mothers where high school chums.

Karlyne wrote: "Good question, Michelle, by the way: Is Mr. Thorpe worse than Mr. Elton?"

Definitely worse. Mr Thorpe is the type of person that could cause real damage to reputations and friendships / relationships.

Michelle wrote: "Karlyne wrote: "Good question, Michelle, by the way: Is Mr. Thorpe worse than Mr. Elton?"

Definitely worse. Mr Thorpe is the type of person that could cause real damage to reputations and friends..."

I think we're all in agreement; Thorpe is the worst!

Michelle, Karlyne,

I just thought of Thorpe in terms of what a disagreeable boorish bore he is, but I think he could cause harm to a young lady of some as Michelle mentioned.

If he lies constantly about inconsequential things in a misguided attempt to increase his importance in the eyes of others, how much more harmful could he be to another person's reputation or standing?

Isabella seems like a mark of JA’s developing skill: she is very believable as a person (vide everyone’s memories of an Isabella in their lives), and she’s also a literary type that JA mocked way back when she was fourteen, in “Love and Freindship”: the heroine of a novel who becomes instant best friends with someone she has just met.

I wish there was a "like the comment" feature here on GoodReads, because I like so many your comments. (Sorry, I'm a little behind the main reading group...)

Mr. Thorpe is horribly annoying and Isabella is awful. Isabella is like Caroline Bingley but in a "friendly way."

I'm so glad Catherine made a decision to do what she felt was right. That is speaks well for her character and gives me hope she won't be completely led astray.
I also like how she listens to Mr. Allan's good advice.

Miss Tilney seems nice and will probably have a good influence on Catherine, I think. I don't know how I feel about Mr. Tilney yet - he keeps mocking Catherine, but she doesn't seem to understand it...but it is gentle mocking. It will be interesting to see if he can drop his joking attitude and reveal more of his character.

My big question at the end of this section is: what do the Thorpes want?

Can't wait to read on...

Henry Tilney does poke a little gentle fun at Catherine, but it is plain to me that is is not mean spirited to hurt her feelings under the guise of a joke.

I think he's poking a little fun at her naïveté, but since his spirits are kind to Catherine, I can't help but think he is really poking a little fun at the quality he likes about her.

When he pokes fun, I don't think he's trying to make a point that she is stupid

Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "Henry Tilney does poke a little gentle fun at Catherine, but it is plain to me that is is not mean spirited to hurt her feelings under the guise of a joke.

I think he's poking a little fun at her ..."

That's a good way of describing it, Andrea!

This is my 2nd time reading the book & I am getting so much more out of it this time because of this discussion group! Loving everyone's comments:)