A Song of Ice and Fire - A Chapter a day discussion
This topic is about
A Game of Thrones
A Game of Thrones
>
09/26/15 - Chapter 70: Jon IX
date
newest »
newest »
Your point 5, that is true, I forgot he doesn't have a godswood to pray to at Castle Black anyway! That just makes it that much harder for him to receive guidance, because even though he has his doubts about the gods I really do believe he is more inclined to believe in his father's gods than Catelyn's. Your point 13, I was under the impression he would hunt for his food or forage somewhere, maybe pay at an inn if he hides his identity. I'm sure the Night's Watch taught him survival skills.
Your point 14, you're right! Ned DID choose family over honor! How did I forget that? But I don't think Jon knows exactly what happened his father's last minutes of life.
Your point 27, I agree, I don't think Jon is too transparent but Mormont is very smart and has had a chance to get to know him. He can predict what Jon will do before Jon even knows!
This chapter speaks to me so much! I wrote especially a lot for this one, so bear with me:
1. "Wind whispered through the stable, a cold dead breath on his face, but Jon paid it no mind." Things I didn't notice before.
2. Ghost's eyes are like embers. Hot again.
3. This scene between Sam and Jon kind of reminds me of LOTR with Sam and Frodo, lol, where Sam follows Frodo when he's trying to leave the Fellowship, except Jon gets away from Sam and Sam gets help. The mood is tense, though. Sam knows what would happen if Jon leaves; he'll be a deserter, and deserters get executed.
4. Though Jon ran over Sam, he hopes the boy didn't hurt himself falling over because he's so fat, lol, awe.
5. I like how he flexes his hand. A characteristic trademark. And he likes that his bandages are finally off. It must have been itchy with it on. It still hurts but it feels good to have it off. :)
6. I'm wondering what it says about Jon that he purposely ran away to join Robb to avenge their family when he knows he's a sworn brother of the Night's Watch now. Maester Aemon warned him, but he ran off anyway. He loved his father that much. Maybe he's not quite cut out to be Night's Watch. *SPOILER FOR DANCE WITH DRAGONS* (view spoiler) His heart is with his family. The lone wolf dies but the pack survives. He's a long way away from family. He mainly joined the Wall for the glory, anyway, and perhaps as punishment for being a bastard. He wants to be a hero. He wants to be a Stark.
7. Jon left Longclaw behind. Good. Just like Jorah did when he ran away. He never felt like he deserved it anyway, though it was hard to abandon it. Hmm... He knows his running is salt in Mormont's wound, about his son running away too. Awe!
8. "No matter what he did, Jon felt as though he were betraying someone." *SPOILER FOR A STORM OF SWORDS* (view spoiler)
9. Interesting how Jon envies the southron's gods, how they have a septon to talk to to help sort out right from wrong. But all the old gods ever did was listen; they never spoke. So it's harder for him decide if this is right.
10. Jon really put thought into his flight = trading the mare for a fresher horse, pace himself, steal new clothes so he doesn't look like a deserter, buy food...
11. It's kind of sad when you think of it, that men of the Night's Watch are hunted down in nearby villages when the Night's Watch used to be such an honorable position in the realm. Now it really does seem like a prison camp when one wishes to escape. He will be killed if caught. I think they need to rework their job description, personally. Have a family in the Gift if they want one, but always keep the Watch number one. And they should be able to leave if they want, especially if they volunteered to join. More people might volunteer if the job was more accommodating, less depressing, trapped. You swore your undying loyalty but how can you continue to do that when you feel like a prisoner there? or when you're forced to join or die?
12. Jon won't even be safe at Winterfell. That should tell you something, Jon! "Bran might want to let him in, but Maester Luwin had better sense." Though he misses it like hell, he didn't leave the Wall for that. "...he had left because he was after all his father's son, and Robb's brother." Interesting.
13. He is not Maester Aemon. Three times the old man was challenged and three times he chose honor. "Even now, Jon could not decide whether the maester had stayed because he was weak and craven, or because he was strong and true." Interesting.
14. Poor Jon, he thinks he is done with denials. He is who he is. "Jon Snow, bastard and oathbreaker, motherless, friendless, and damned...he would be condemned to be an outsider...wherever he might go throughout the seven kingdoms, he would need to live a lie, lest every man's hand be raised against him..." So sad... *SPOILER FOR DANCE WITH DRAGONS* (view spoiler)
15. Jon tries to picture Robb being glad he came to help avenge their father but he just can't. He remembers Gared's death, his own father executed him. If it had been Benjen instead, would he do it? Itwould have been really hard, but I believe Ned would have. But Jon's not quite willing to see the truth yet. He is making a huge mistake running away. *SPOILER FOR DANCE WITH DRAGONS* (view spoiler) But no one can blame him. His father was unjustly murdered and his sisters are in trouble. There's a reason it's so hard to abandon your family, I think. We were made to protect each other. Our family, and friends (our chosen family), accepts us and loves us. Of COURSE we want to protect our family. This is such a hard decision; I will not lie, I actually cried thinking about it. I don't usually cry either. I imagined Robb with Ice, trying to stay strong in front of his men and Jon pleading not to do it, he came all this way because he wanted to help!, the look on his face when he realizes he should have stayed on the Wall, and Robb having to execute his own brother. I just can't... I need a moment.
16. It is so sad, "Let them say that Eddard Stark had fathered four sons, not three." He wants to die with a sword in his hand, fighting his father's killers, even though he'd never been a true Stark, but he wants to die like one at least. Robb has to take the Night's Watch vows seriously. Jon would be a deserter, no matter the reason why. Jon knows this, but he can't accept it yet. He is too full of pain to be thinking clearly.
17. I like that 3/4 of Mole's Town is underground, so it is bigger than it seems. Probably ideal to protect themselves from the harsh winter, and wildling raids.
18. Omg, lol, the brothers call the whores here "buried treasure." And some would come here to "mine." lol... It's oathbreaking doing that too, but no one seems to care. There are certain levels of oathbreaking, it seems. Though I don't know if the vows specifically said no sex, no sex at all.
19. Poor Jon, he tries to tell himself he's doing the right thing, but he feels bad. It's because deep down inside he knows he's doing the wrong thing! Saying words is easy; living by them is harder.
20. Jon slows down because he doesn't want to kill his horse and because he is concerned about Ghost being gone too long. Because he stopped to eat, his friends were able to catch up. :) Divine intervention! Jon hadn't thought of Sam going to his friends to hunt him down for him. Good Sam!
21. His friends were taking a risk going out to find him. If morning broke and they weren't back they'd be named deserters, too. Jon doesn't want that, but he's being a hypocrite.
22. Well, they find him, thanks to Ghost, and I smiled when he called him a traitor. I forgot he pulls his sword on them, though. He tells them to stay back or he'll hurt them, and he really doesn't want to have to do that. There are seven, though! Interesting number! They spread around him and tell him they're here to bring him back, talk sense into him. Maybe they're his septon! They recite their vows, reminding him. At first he's angry, but later he gives in, realizing they won't let him go without dying in the process, and he just doesn't have it in his heart to do that. His family isn't so important he has to kill his friends to get there. He has good friends! Though he does curse them plenty, ha!
23. Very interesting that when they get back to the Wall, it does not look like home this time.
24. Though he gets back, he still thinks about running off again, interesting. I forgot that. He thinks the west through the mountains is the "wildling's way, hard and perilous..." but it would be the easiest way to escape. Still planning...
25. So Sam did not go with them but he waited for them to get back all night. He's glad they found him, but Jon's not, lol.
26. Thanks to Jon, no one got any sleep last night and they still have their duties to attend to. Ha!
27. When he sees Mormont he reminds him the things we love destroy us every time, but Jon doesn't want to remember his father's death. :( Ha! "Was your moonlight ride so tiring?" Jon is surprised Mormont knew. The bird repeats "know." :) Mormont says Aemon told him he'd go and Mormont said he'd be back. "Honor set you on the kingsroad...and honor brought you back." :) "My friends brought me back." "Did I say it was your honor?" This made me laugh at first, but now I realize Mormont did not relinquish calling Jon ditching the Wall honorable. Very interesting.
28. As it turns out, Jon isn't as smart as he thought. Mormont anticipated he'd run; that's why he sent a Watch to look out for him. If his friends hadn't have brought him back, less friendly hands would have. "I know the penalty for desertion, my lord. I'm not afraid to die." Omg the bird cries "Die!"!! Mormont knows him too well. :) He calls his plans to escape another time as well. "Anyone of [Robb's] lords bannermen commands more swords than you'll find in all the Night's Watch. Why do you imagine that they need your help?" Mormont reminds Jon that his sister and nieces are also in the war and he loves them as much as Jon loves his half-sisters. :) "My place is here...where is yours, boy?" Jon wants to say he has no place. "I'm a bastard, I have no rights, no name, no mother, and now not even a father. The words would not come." Poor kid! He admits he doesn't know where his place is; that's honest.
29. Now the bird says, "Ben Jen." :) And "War. War. War. War." OMG this bird...!
crap! Ran out of space...
30. Oh GODS I want to repeat everything Mormont says!! It's all so good! "When dead men come hunting in the night, do you think it matters who sits the Iron Throne?" Very true! And love that "Jon had not thought of it that way." Now Mormont tells Jon his plans -- to go behind the Wall. He thinks Jon is meant to be here, and his direwolf. He wants him to come with them. This excites Jon. You can tell he wants to go beyond the wall, perhaps because he really wanted to be a ranger, and/or have a chance to go find his uncle. :) Mormont wants to find Benjen alive or dead, find out what's happening, yay! 31. "Are you a brother of the Night's Watch...or only a bastard boy who wants to play at war?" Wow... I'm questioning myself that Jon isn't fated to stay a member of the Night's Watch... Though Jon realizes he's right, Jon does seem to hesitate:
"I am...yours, my lord. Your man. I swear it. I will not run again."
Notice he swears he is Mormont's man, not a man of the Night's Watch. Very interesting.
Okay, I'm done now. :)
Yes I guess he would have found food, the thing is the water. Anyway, he didn't spend too much time alone, so it doesn't matter a lot.And of course Jon didn't know that, but I think it was interesting Ned, the man Jon thought would not choose family over honor, did it in the end.
Interesting your point 8 spoiler, I think he did!
Very interesting your point 31, he didn't say Night's Wacth. And everything Mormont said was so cool. I really like his character.
1-You get the idea Jon is trying to leave, as Sam tells him not to go. Jon told him to get out of the way if he didn't want to get run over by the horse, and Sam did, like Jon knew. I mean, who would stay still?
2-Jon is worried Sam got hurt when he moved out of the way. He really worries about him, which is really sweet.
3-He has to go as far as he can before dawn, when he is supposed to take his breakfast to Lord Commander. He knows he can't get caught, the penalty for leaving is death.
4-He feels like whatever he does, he is betraying someone, and I understand why he feels like that. Also he prefers to betray the Wacth and Mormont rather than his brother, and his father's memory. He left Longclaw, and he knew it would hurt Mormont. He knows the old man appreciates him a lot. He also said: "He knew his desertion would be salt in the still-raw wound of his son’s disgrace." Jorah leaving happened a long while ago, but I think some wounds take a lot of time to heal.
5-He mentions he has no way to speak to the gods, to get an answer, like the people from the South, who has septons to talk to. Didn't is seem like he didn't believe in any gods in one of his previous chapters?
6-Also, he has to changes all his black clothes, or else people will know he is a deserter from the Night's Watch. And I found it funny the thought of him stealing clothes from a house, don't know why.
7-It is a good idea not going to Winterfell, he knows how Maester Luwin would react. I don't remember what kind of relationship they had, but I have the idea it wasn't as the one the Maester has with Bran.
8-Now he understood the pain of choosing, the one Maester Aemon was talking about. I wonder if, besides how he feels, he took note of the sadness Maester Aemon had while he talked about the three times he had to choose. Also, how hard it must have been to stay while all those things were happening to his family. Maybe Jon didn't want to live with that all his life.
9-But he made a choice, so he'll g to Robb's side no matter what. And now he thinks how Robb will recieve him, and he couldn't see a smile in his face. I think he knows Robb would never imagine he would leave the Watch to fight, or wouldn't ask him to do so. He remembers his father killed a man who had left, and wonders what would Ned had done if the man was Benjen. I wonder too, would he put honor before family?
10-Robb has to take him, or else he would have left for nothing. He has so many doubts, what a hard decision he made! WHat if Robb doesn't want Jon by his side? I don't know how Robb'd have reacted to Jon showing up to be honest.
11-He think he will never be a true Stark, but he could die like one. He thinks a lot in this chapter he is not afraid to die, and for some reason I think he doesn't, which is kind of sad. I don't think he loves life too much.
12-He passed Mole's Town, a city that is mostly undergroung, and it's an interesting thing. Maybe to feel the cold a little bit less? Also lol at the whorehouse being called buried trasure by the brothers. He thinks they are breaking his vows as well, and no one cares. But I think he knows it's not the same. Besides, they are not getting married, and I doubt they had children.
13-The fact that he drank snows makes me think he didn't have any food or water with him, which is not the smartest thing to do if your plan is to cross the realm.
14-He believes he is doing the right thing, but wonders why he feels bad? It was a really hard for him in my opinion, he said the words, yet he left. He chose family over honor, like Ned did.
15-I got confused at the part he walked that road that was way too narrow. He wonders if he was such in a hurry to die he did it. He realised how stupid it was, so this was one of the things that made me believe he is not afraid to die, and maybe that he doesn't care a lot about his life. It's not the best, but it makes me sad he feels like that.
16-Ghost got lost, and I don't think he realised when the direwolf left.
17-He hears riders from the North, probably looking for him. It was a smart move to hide instead of run, they would hear the noise.
18-He hears his friend's voices. I reallt think they are his friends, and he feels like they are as well. Maybe when he said he had no friends, was to make it more easy for him. They came because Sam told them of course. It was smart, to tell them instead of Mormont or some other.
19-I believe Jon gets really worried when he thinks at dawn, they'll be deserters too if they don't go back.
20-Ghost came out of nowhere and scared the mare, and she made a sound. He tells Ghost he is a traitor. I think the wolf definetely knew what he was doing, which makes me think, how smart is him? How did he know Jon would leave and not come back, and that it would mean his death if he got caught?
21-The boys know why Jon ride off, and feel sorry for him. Maybe they can tell how bad he feels. I thought it was intereting they got closer as they recited the vows, and that Jon did nothing to stop them. He was surrounded by all, but he didn't try too much to move away.
22-I don't think he would attack his friends, and I think they know that. They have no armor, and it could be because they didn't want Jon to go too far. But I don't think Sam took too long to tell them about Jon.
23-I really like Pyp. He took Jon's mare reins and told him to kill him or go back. Of course, Jon went back. Yet, even if he got back, his plan was to leave again, once they think he would stay in the Wall.
24-Is it common for people to drink beer with lemon? I don't like beer, so I won't taste if it feels good, but I never heard of it and I found it weird.
25-Jeor Mormont knew Jon left that night. I liked he asked Jon if his ride was tiring so casually. He put people to watch him, and they saw him leave. He told Jon he knew he will do it and Aemon as well. He also knew he would go back, and honor brought him back. His friend's honor, not his. Interesting, and a good point.
26-Jon thinks Jorah will kill him, but he told Jon he didn't desert yet, which is true. He also knows about the brothers going to the whore, and he would have ghost guarding the Wall if he killed them all for going. He knows they ask the men too much.
27-Lord Commander also knew Jon planned to go again. He can really read people, or Jon is too transparent, which I don't think.
28-Mormont talked about his sister and her daughters fighting with Robb, but he didn't leave the Wacth. He would be sorry if his sister died, but he would not leave, like Aemon didn't leave when he might.
29-Jon doesn't know where his place is, which is really sad. But by the end of this chapter he realised he found his place, and makes up a little for so much sadness.
30-Jeor Mormont shit is going down in the North, and I don't think Jon had that in mind when he left. Also, I really like the question Jeon asks, which war is more important? In a way, I think they both are important, but if the Wall falls, it won't be good for the realm and whoever sits in the throne.
31-Jon gets excited when Mormont tells him they will go beyond the Wall. I don't know if I would be so excited, but I guess it's because the Lord Commander means to find Benjen. In his mind Jon asks his family to forgive him, and tells Jeon he won't go away, and I think he meant it.