Poldark Saga - Winston Graham discussion

What are your favorites in book 9? We should assume this entire discussion will contain spoilers for this book and those prior!

Ross has seen Demelza suffer during pregnancy and known of women that died in childbirth. He's especially concerned now that Demelza is in her 40's.
Book 2.Chapter 4.II

" 'I could well take a vow of abstinence when I see you put to so much strain and inconvenience just to satisfy my appetites.'

'Don't take a vow that I shall persuade you to break. For abstinence is not in me yet.'

'It would be a good name, wouldn't it,' Ross said. 'Abstinence. Abstinence Poldark.' But would it be for a girl or a boy?'

Demelza said: 'Don't you think Indulgence would be better?'

'Or Incontinence,' said Ross."

One of my favorite passages from THE MILLER’S DANCE. This is a continuation pertaining to the little Brown bottle which came to light in THE ANGRY TIDE and this final reference in THE MILLER’S DANCE. Two reasons I find it particularly endearing as it shows what an exceptional friend Dwight Enys is to Ross and how very deeply Ross cares for Demelza.
In THE ANGRY TIDE, Dwight safely delivered Elizabeth of a tiny premature daughter, small but healthy. Two days later Dwight is called by Dr. Behenna to discuss Elizabeth’s alarming and worsening condition.
Dwight said ‘You have clearly not been in a prisoner-of-war camp, sir.’
‘What do you mean by that?’
Dwight hesitated again. He dreaded even formulating the words. ‘Well it appears plain to me. Can you not smell anything?’
‘I must agree that there is a very slight disturbing odor which I did not notice until this forenoon. But that…’
Yes, that. Though God in His Heaven only knows what may have brought her to such a condition?’
‘Are you suggesting sir, that my treatment is in some way responsible?’
‘I am suggesting nothing---‘
“I could as well suggest to you, sir, that had I been here to deliver the child this condition might not have happened!’ [
Dwight looked at the other man.
We are both physicians, Dr. Behenna, and I believe equally dedicated to the succor and cure of human ills. Our treatments may differ as widely as two languages, but our aims are similar and our integrity, I trust is not in question. So I suggest to you that there is nothing I would have done in delivering a child in an uncomplicated birth, or anything you could have done in prescribing the treatments you have described to me, which would or could produce the symptoms Mrs. Warleggan is now suffering from.’
Behenna paced about.
‘Agreed’
Dwight said: ‘Contractions of the arteries, restricting and then inhibiting the blood supply. This is what appears to be occurring. Particularly and most dangerously restricting the blood supply to the limbs. There appears to be no reason for it! The birth, as I have told you, was unexceptional: premature but otherwise only distinguished by the fact that the uterine spasms were very rapid and overemphatic. But I took this to be a characteristic of the patient – after all, a woman I delivered last week gave birth to a child in fifty-five minutes from having complained of the first pains. It was that, I thought, or an outcome of the fall she had had and not indicating any pathological complication. Now this…the cause is obscure, the disease hardly so.’
Behenna said: ‘You’re going too fast and too far.” He glanced at Enys.
‘I pray I am. Indeed, I do. We shall know soon enough.’
‘I’ll trust you do not intend to publish your suggestion to Mr. Warleggan.’
‘Far from it. In the meantime, though you may doubt my diagnosis you do not, I trust, dissociate yourself from my treatment?’
‘No…It can do no harm.’
TANYA has been able to identify the liquid in the brown bottle as ERGOT.
Dwight, being suspicious had collected the brown bottle from Elizabeth’s room and taken it with him after the delivery. Safely stored on a shelf in his medicine room.
In THE MILLER’S DANCE, Demelza is expecting their fourth child. Ross is concerned due to Demelza’s age and the strain of carrying a child. When Dwight is called after Demelza has fainted on the kitchen floor. He pronounces both Demelza and the baby doing well, although Ross is still concerned.
‘Do you know what I think of?’ Ross said.
‘No?’
‘Elizabeth.’
Dwight let out a breath. ‘Forget it. Forget Elizabeth. That was quite different.’
‘How different?’
‘It --- was. She died…well, you know how she died.’
‘I can never forget it. Not as long as I live. So…’
‘Yes, but there can never be any similarity between the two conditions.’
‘Why not?’
They stared at each other.
Dwight said: ‘Take my word for it, Ross.’
‘But I want to know why.’
‘I can’t tell you.’
‘Because you don’t know or because what you know may not be repeated?’
Dwight lowered his eyes. ‘Look, old friend; forget Elizabeth; and accept my assurance that there can be no similarity.’
In the thirteen years which had passed, Dwight must have surmised what Elizabeth might have taken to incur a premature birth. He might also have heard the rumors about the question of Valentine’s possible premature birth and the father. Dwight had no way of knowing that Ross had once suggested to Elizabeth that she should contrive to confuse the dates of conception of another pregnancy to have a second “premature” child. Dwight was Ross’s best and oldest friend and would always keep his own counsel to save Ross from heartache. These two friends, living by a personal standard to value and support each other without regard to his own risk, are to me one of Winston Graham’s most enduring characterizations.

VICTORIA You are posing some good points--I need to think about this a bit more and perhaps read a little further before I decide what Dwight did and did not know regarding Elizabeth's motivations and her conversation with Ross before the pregnancy....

spoiler: (view spoiler)[... (hide spoiler)] TANYA thanks for reading through this. All through the books I have been touched by the friendship between Ross and Dwight. Each risking so much for the other. Yet REFUSING to accept heartfelt gratitude. WG has made two wonderful characters. Last night I tried for two hours to find the reference where Dwight finds the little brown bottle on his shelf and tastes it knowing the herbs and "something else"... I could not find it. However Dwight is on top of the changes in the medical profession and is VERY WELL REGARDED in London. I really suspect he did know the contents but would never have associated ERGOT with Ross's conversation with Elizabeth in the Sawle grave yard many years ago. What do YOU think the reason for Demelza's final pregnancy being so difficult?/spoiler: (view spoiler)[... (hide spoiler)]

Victoria wrote: (view spoiler)[ "What do YOU think the reason for Demelza's final pregnancy being so difficult?" (hide spoiler)]
(view spoiler)[ I think it was just her age. Her symptoms seemed to me to be pre-eclampsia. Her risk factors were three fold:
•Age. The risk of preeclampsia is higher for pregnant women older than 40.
•Interval between pregnancies. Having babies...more than 10 years apart leads to a higher risk of preeclampsia.
•History of certain conditions. Having certain conditions before you become pregnant — such as... migraine headaches...
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-co...
(hide spoiler)]
WG totally set us up for that!

spoiler: (view spoiler)[...

TANYA – MY TURN I FOUND IT!! After searching for two hours on Friday night for this passage about the little brown bottle again. I found it last night. I have to confess that books 1-7 rarely leave my side, bedside, kitchen, next to the computer or even handbag. I am always ready to re-read a little and often find a new way to look at a chapter or paragraph. HOWEVER, since reading THE TWISTED SWORD and BELLA POLDARK, I put them in the living room bookshelves. Too uncomfortable with them to even have the titles around. This week I decided that I needed to re-read them, in all fairness. SO last night I was reading THE TWISTED SWORD and it popped out!!
It is now 1815, 15 years since Elizabeth’s death. Book Three, Chapter Five, IV, Dwight has come to check on Selina’s condition after a possible suicide. He is confronted by Valentine asking about his mother’s death. Despite Dwight’s cautious wording, Valentine is insistent.
‘She died in childbirth. Your sister –‘
‘Ursula was born on the 10th of December and my mother did not die until the 14th.’
‘It is not uncommon, if something goes amiss, for the mother to survive for a few days.’
‘Do you know what went amiss?’
‘She dies of blood poisoning,’ said Dwight shortly.
‘Was that why she smelt so bad/”
Dwight looked up, startled.
Valentine said: “well, you see, I was nearly six at the time. They would not let me into the room, but the smell escaped into the passage. It is a smell I have never been able to forget.’
There was an uneasy silence. Dwight said: ‘I am sorry you were allowed near. The disagreeable smell was due to a putrid condition of the blood.’
…….
‘Dwight said: ‘Your mother was delivered prematurely of a perfectly healthy child. I delivered the child. I did not see your mother again for two days, as Dr. Behenna arrived and took charge. Then when I was called in again I was appalled at the sight of her illness. Do not misunderstand me, this could not have the result of any mistaken treatment Dr. Behenna prescribed. Had I seen the complaint earlier I would have diagnosed it more quickly, but could not have halted it.”
‘And the complaint was?’
‘I have told you. A form of blood poisoning.’
‘Gangrene, wasn’t it? I have read books.’
‘A form of blood poisoning.’
‘Caused by what?’
Dwight thought: almost certainly by drinking part of the contents of a little bottle I still have in my cupboard at home. He had no means of analyzing it but he had tasted it and could make a reasonable guess at some of the ingredients. But never could he say anything of this to any human being, least of all to Elizabeth’s son.
‘Dr. Behenna described it as an acute gouty condition of the abdominal viscera which manifested itself in cramp-like spasms and inhibitions of the nerve fluids.’
‘Do you believe all this medical flummery? You are, after all, well known to be the most advanced and knowledgeable physician in the southwest.’
Dwight stared at the tensed-up young man. ‘However knowledgeable any of us is, we struggle in the dark, Mr. Warleggan. We know so little of the human body, even after centuries of practice and experience.’
He might have added: And of the mind, Mr. Warleggan, and of the mind.”
(hide spoiler)]

Tanya wrote: "Victoria wrote: [spoilers removed]
I think it was just her age. Her symptoms seemed to me to be pre-eclampsia. Her risk factors were three fold:
•Age. The risk of preeclampsia is higher for pregna..."

EXACTLY WHAT I THOUGHT. AGAIN, WG IS SO SPOT ON WITH HIS RESEARCH. AND DOING EVERYTHING BY HAND!!
SORRY FOR THE LAST DOUBLE POST...NOT HAVING AN EASY TIME NAVIGATING THIS SITE....

Victoria wrote: "I was reading THE TWISTED SWORD and it popped out!!"
I haven't gotten that far yet! So, I beg your indulgence and will NOT read your comment until I'm caught up. I'm currently reading The Loving Cup, so it shouldn't be too long. :-)

TANYA Sorry, I MUST stop assuming that everyone has read every book, as AT says TWICE!

Victoria wrote: "spoiler: ...
This comment posted Oct 11, 2015 has been copied to the "Elizabeth's brown bottle (continued)" thread in The Twisted Sword folder.

Oh my fave was definitely demelza having the baby because I didn't expect that one! I thought Bella was the last! So it was a nice surprise and I was so happy the child lived.

I have just finished the millers dance so I can't speak to events from the later books but here's my little opinion on previous stuff... I too assumed from the start (in book 7) that Dwight definitely knew Liz took something and knew her death was poison related. I can't remember much more than that but I know he knew. He doesn't know about the convo between Ross and Liz, to the best of my knowledge. Caroline is good at gossip but not that good! LOL so on that point, maybe through Caroline and just valentines looks etc, maybe he assumes he is Ross's but again, he can't be certain. *shrug*

BUT.. Do you think it could be possible that through all this, Dwight put two and two together on his own and realized from the drug she took that she was trying to make the baby come sooner, hence make a premature baby like Valentine...ergo, throwing George off the scent because Val is likely Ross's..so though he didn't over hear any convo, I'm thinking he could have put pieces together..if anyone could, it's Dwight...

If this was said already, I apologize, I didn't read it all due to hidden spoilers and didn't wanna risk it since I'm not done with the series yet! ;)

Ps.. I forgot, I'm also assuming Dwight knew Val was premature right? I know George called for a second opinion from behenna (sp?) but I forget if D knew.. If so, this is why I think he could more easily put the pieces together of what Liz was trying to achieve

Dwight knows that Valentine was born 8 months after Elizabeth married George. Although Ross and Dwight were good friends, Ross apparently never mentioned his night with Elizabeth to Dwight, so I think Dwight assumed Valentine was an "eight month baby" until George started asking questions and/or rumors about Valentine became more widespread.

Ok thanks Tanya! So now it def makes me think Dwight had some reason to put pieces together surrounding her death of he chose to think about it long enough. But maybe he wouldn't want to... It still bothers me! LOL

Sarah I am not sure where you are in the books and I do not want to spoil your enjoyment. However in late October, Tanya conducted some fabulous research and discovered with GREAT certainty what E. did and the contents. I could not find it but it might be in a section re: medical practices. If you are up to the 11th book, Read the text and the comment I added. it is pretty well spelled out about Dwight's suspicions about the 'brown bottle.' I do not believe that Dwight suspected Ross as Valentine's father as it would have been outside of Dwight's commitment to his own marriage to suspect Ross.

There are a few "brown bottle" discussions, each separated into the folder for the book in which the information is revealed. You can do a search of the discussion posts using the term "brown bottle".

The search area is found on the right hand side (when using a computer to view this site) and looks like this

TANYA - as always you are sooooo organized. LOVE the new banner, it is simply perfect and my favorite quote too!