Reading the Detectives discussion

One of the most popular classic crime authors is undoubtedly Dorothy L. Sayers. I enjoyed reading through all the Wimsey books in order, but my favourites were those which also feature Harriet Vane.

I also loved the TV adaptations with Edward Petherbridge and Harriet Walter, but was rather sad that they weren't able to include Busman's Honeymoon because of some rights issue, since it is probably my favourite out of the Sayers books.

I've never seen the older adaptations with Ian Carmichael as Wimsey, but should really give them a try too.

What is anyone else's favourite by Sayers? And is Wimsey your favourite detective? I think he is probably my number one favourite, for his blend of silliness and underlying depths, though it's very hard to decide between him and Campion... probably whichever one I've been reading most recently. :)

Judy wrote: "One of the most popular classic crime authors is undoubtedly Dorothy L. Sayers. I enjoyed reading through all the Wimsey books in order, but my favourites were those which also featur..."

I don't like the ones with Harriet Vane very much -- I think it is a prejudice that I developed as a teenager when I was partially in love with Lord Peter!

I've not seen the Edward Petherbridge series, only the Ian Carmichael one. It was on PBS when I was a teen; they were how I started reading the books -- I couldn't wait until the next week's episode to see what was going to happen in Clouds Of Witness so I read the book *grin*

So I have a sentimental attachment to that one. Other favorites are Murder Must Advertise and Five Red Herrings. But I like all of them!

I think my favorite is Gaudy Night. I was a late comer to Sayers. There was a used book sale in graduate school and I picked up The Nine Tailors and was hooked.

I didn't really like the productions very much. I guess they weren't how I pictured Peter and Harriet.

I do remember seeing some of the Lord Peter ones with Ian Carmichael starring & enjoyed them very much. That said I never really took to Sayers' writing. I want to give her another shot. She is another author whose work isn't turning up at the op shop I volunteer at. :(

My favourite is Gaudy Night too, and I also really like one of the follow ons that Jill Paton Walsh wrote set in WW2 A Presumption of Death.

On another thread, I was saying that I would like to start a thread next year, where I read a series in order and that, possibly, other readers might like to join in. I suggested either P D James or Dorothy L Sayers.

Does anyone have any thoughts about this and whether they prefer Sayers or James? Would any lovers of Sayers care to join in if I set up a thread to read the Lord Peter Wimsey books in order?

I've read books by Sayers but not P D James. I'd be happy to give P D James a go. Don't mind!

That's great, Roisin. I am looking forward to hopefully reading a whole series for once :) As P D James died quite recently, it would be nice to re-discover her work.

I also enjoyed Gaudy Night, Strong Poison, and Murder Must Advertise.

Dorothy Sayers really had a distinctive and classic style, and I've also enjoyed the films with Ian Carmichael and Edward Petherbridge.

Susan wrote: "On another thread, I was saying that I would like to start a thread next year, where I read a series in order and that, possibly, other readers might like to join in. I suggested either P D James o..."

I love Sayers but won't be able to commit to rereading all her books. Too many books, not enough time! I am sure you are all aware of that dilemma :)

Susan wrote: "On another thread, I was saying that I would like to start a thread next year, where I read a series in order and that, possibly, other readers might like to join in. I suggested either P D James o..."

I would like to join in with reading Dorothy L Sayers. Always happy to re-read her books :-)

Yes, as I said on another thread, I sense more interest in Sayers overall, then James. I will set up a challenge I think for next year. Sayers is, probably, a better start - in that she is really in the era we are exploring. Also, her books are shorter, so we may find them easier to tackle than some of P D James, which are longer. I think a challenge would be a nice way for us to really concentrate on a particular Golden Age author.

There are 14 books in the Lord Peter Wimsey series:

Peter Wimsey
1. Whose Body? (1923)
2. Clouds of Witness (1926)
3. Unnatural Death (1927)
4. Lord Peter Views the Body (1928)
5. The Unpleasantness at the Bellona Club (1928)
6. Strong Poison (1930)
7. The Five Red Herrings (1931)
8. Have His Carcase (1932)
9. Hangman's Holiday (1933)
10. Murder Must Advertise (1933)
11. The Nine Tailors (1934)
12. Gaudy Night (1935)
13. Busman's Honeymoon (1937)
14. In the Teeth of the Evidence (1939)

That does, of course, take us a little over a year, but I feel that more than one a month will be difficult.

If I set it up from January, then members can join in with whichever book(s) interest them and there will be no pressure for anyone to feel they have to read them all.

Susan wrote: "Yes, as I said on another thread, I sense more interest in Sayers overall, then James. I will set up a challenge I think for next year. Sayers is, probably, a better start - in that she is really i..."

Thanks Susan. I've been planning a re-read and had got as far as Whose Body? then stalled due to the teetering height of all the other books in my tbr pile!

Hopefully the challenge will help me organize myself to get on with it.

You and me both, Ruth :)

I think it will be exciting to take part - I do love Sayers and one book a month sounds doable. Thanks for organising this, Susan!

I thought I'd read them all, but I'm not sure if I've read In the Teeth of the Evidence... I thought Busman's Honeyman was the last one. Intriguing.

I did get this list from Fantastic Fiction, but I will investigate a bit further before I finalise the list. The last book is a collection of stories apparently. I think there are about three books of short stories, as well as the novels. Apparently, the opening story refers to Lord Peter visiting the dentist!

Hangman's Holiday is also a book of short stories, but I look forward to a revisit to Lord Peter :D

Lord Peter Views the Body is also short stories.

Yes, I think about 3 of the books are short stories. I was not, initially, sure whether to include them or just concentrate on the novels, but I think I will, although I am interested to hear your thoughts.

Susan wrote: "Yes, I think about 3 of the books are short stories. I was not, initially, sure whether to include them or just concentrate on the novels, but I think I will, although I am interested to hear your ..."

I think the short story volumes are worth including - there are some excellent stories in them. As you said earlier people can pick and choose which books to read and discuss. Some might prefer to not read the short stories.

The problem with the short stories is that they are not all Lord Peter ones, some are Montague Egg (and in my opinion not as good because of that!)

Yes, I suppose the problem is what do you leave out? I will see how we get on and people can join in or leave out any books they are not interested in.

This is a very interesting page about DLS...


http://www.theguardian.com/books/2008...

It suggests that Lord Peter Wimsey featured in 15 novels and short stories.

Also...

By the late 1930s Sayers vowed there would be no more Wimsey novels, but on her death an unfinished book, Thrones, Dominations, was found, and completed by the author Jill Paton Walsh.

The section on recommended works is worth reading for those tempted to cherry pick a few books rather than read all 14/15/16 (delete as applicable)...

Recommended works
The Nine Tailors (1934), an atmospheric tale of stolen jewels, faceless corpses and bell-ringing set in the fens of Sayers's childhood, is generally felt to be one of the best of the Wimsey stories. Sayers stopped halfway through writing it to dash off the satirical Murder Must Advertise (1933) because she had to meet a deadline and didn't want to rush her pet project. The introduction of detective story writer Harriet Vane in Strong Poison (1930) caused a schism. Some readers felt the love interest distracted from the purity of the detective story form, pulling the books out of shape and making them too long and dull, while others simply didn't think she was worthy of their hero. Sayers was inundated with letters begging her not to let Lord Peter marry "that horrid girl".It isn't hard to see the relationship between the dashing Lord Peter and Sayers's alter ego, Harriet Vane, as an attempt to improve on the disappointments of Sayers's own romantic life. Harriet (and presumably Sayers) certainly seem to approve when, in Gaudy Night (1935), young Beatrice declares that she would rather have a motorbike than a husband. Sayers herself liked the dimension Peter and Harriet's relationship added to the traditional mystery story form. She had always been something of a purist, but with Gaudy Night she does just what Harriet does, and writes a book about real people and messy feelings, rather than a classic puzzle story. Sayers is no James Ellroy but she recognised that while, "some readers prefer their detective stories to be of this conventional kind ... I believe the future to be with those writers who can contrive to strike the note of sincerity and to persuade us that violence really hurts."

And no, I didn't know that Sayers was a keen motorbike rider, and has earned quiet respect in certain circles for the faultless descriptions of these machines in her books.

Thanks, Nigeyb. I will try to find a complete bibliography before setting up the challenge. I would like to read the books by Jill Paton-Walsh, but want to read all the original wunderkind first.

This is what's on Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Pe...


Novels

Whose Body? (1923)
Clouds of Witness (1926)
Unnatural Death (1927)
The Unpleasantness at the Bellona Club (1928)
Strong Poison (1931)
Five Red Herrings (1931)
Have His Carcase (1932)
Murder Must Advertise (1933)
The Nine Tailors (1934)
Gaudy Night (1935)
Busman's Honeymoon (1937)
Thrones, Dominations (1998; unfinished manuscript completed by Jill Paton Walsh)
A Presumption of Death (2002; by Jill Paton Walsh)
The Attenbury Emeralds (2010; by Jill Paton Walsh)
The Late Scholar (2014; by Jill Paton Walsh)

Short story collections

Lord Peter Views the Body (1928)
Hangman's Holiday (1933; also contains non-Wimsey stories)
In the Teeth of the Evidence (1939; also contains non-Wimsey stories)
Striding Folly (1972)
Lord Peter (1972)

That brings in a whole different question though - do we consider the Jill Paton Walsh books as part of the Lord Peter Wimsey collection or as something separate? Well, I will start with the original books and we will see how we get on. Imagine if we had chosen Agatha Christie - we would have a book a month for years!

I found the first JPW okay, the second reasonable and the next two rather dire! Which is odd as I like her Imogen Quy books set in Cambridge.

I've read a couple of the Imogen Quy books, Hilary - and thought they were OK. However, I haven't read any of her Wimsey books. I didn't like (that's an understatement!) the 'new' Poirot novel that was released last year. Hopefully, the Wimsey ones were more in character.

I thought the first two JPW Wimsey books were OK, though I don't remember them all that well. Somehow they don't stick in the mind as well as the originals do.

I liked the third one, but must agree with you, Hilary, that I wasn't a fan of the fourth one - I didn't even finish it. Not sure if I will bother with any more of them.

Meant to add that I did love Jill Paton Walsh as a kid - I remember loving The Dolphin Crossing which was about Dunkirk, and Fireweed though I'm not sure now what that one was about.

Susan wrote: "I've read a couple of the Imogen Quy books, Hilary - and thought they were OK. However, I haven't read any of her Wimsey books. I didn't like (that's an understatement!) the 'new' Poirot novel that..."

I've really enjoyed the last two Jill PW Peter Wimsey books - The Late Scholar and the Attenbury Emeralds - I actually forgot I wasn't reading a genuine DLS story!

I had forgotten the short story collection Striding Folly - but it is shorter than the rest if I remember correctly.

I actually like the Imogen Quy books.

The first two books are Lord Peter novels, so we can start with those and see what the interest is. I would like to do the whole of Sayers if possible, but we will see how we get on. We can be flexible - if there are story collections which feature non Lord Peter Wimsey stories, for example, we can add them as 'extra' reads for the most committed, or members can just choose not to join in that month.

Susan wrote: "The first two books are Lord Peter novels, so we can start with those and see what the interest is. I would like to do the whole of Sayers if possible, but we will see how we get on. We can be flex..."

That sounds good to me :-)

Susan wrote: "The first two books are Lord Peter novels, so we can start with those and see what the interest is. I would like to do the whole of Sayers if possible, but we will see how we get on. We can be flex..."

That sounds fine, what about the JPW books are they being added in?

Hello, I have just joined this group and was looking for one that reads the golden age mysteries. Sayers is one of my favorites, so I am likely to join in on the discussion starting in January. I've read most of them and also have seen all of the TV adaptations and listened to the radio versions as well. Looking forward to this!

Welcome.

Welcome, glad you found us! It will be fun to read Sayers together - can't wait. :)

Welcome pghfan!

As to an earlier comment about the JPW books being added into the challenge - I would like to, but even the original books take us over a year (unless I drop the story collections which feature short stories other than Lord Peter ones). I might try to condense the 'challenge' into a year, see how it goes and then have the JPW books as an extra challenge the year after, combined with something else. Does that make sense?!

Susan wrote: "Welcome pghfan!

As to an earlier comment about the JPW books being added into the challenge - I would like to, but even the original books take us over a year (unless I drop the story collections..."

Sounds good to me - just see how it goes because by the time we get to the first short story collection if we read them in order we should have an idea of what the consensus is.

Yes, I think we need 12 books for 12 months and then we can decide where to go after that. I will almost certainly add any story collections which feature other characters as extra books, but I will sit down and work out something that I hope will appeal to the majority of readers. I have only read the early LPW books, so once we are halfway through, the rest will be new to me, which is always exciting.

Just when I'd finished swooning over the lovely new paperback editions of the Wimsey books, I noticed today that the Folio Society has brought out an even more attractive hardback edition of the short story collection Lord Peter Views the Body. It has illustrations by Paul Cox and an introduction by Jill Paton Walsh. Nearly £35 though!

http://www.foliosociety.com/book/WIM/...

That's a lovely cover.

That is expensive. Mind you, I received this for Christmas, which was even more costly than my signed Agatha Christie:

https://www.editionsdessaintsperes.co...

The trouble is, it is so HUGE (three volumes) that is is not easy to read.

Judy wrote: "Just when I'd finished swooning over the lovely new paperback editions of the Wimsey books, I noticed today that the Folio Society has brought out an even more attractive hardback edition of the sh..."

Back when I was single and could spend money on whatever I wanted to, I was a member of Folio. They did some wonderful work, but yes, they were pricy.

I have a copy of The Lord of the Rings from the Folio Society and I brought my daughter a beautiful, colour edition of Winnie-the-Pooh from there. I am VERY tempted by the Sayers...

I have The Lord of the Rings ones too. The Little Grey Men one and The Wind in the Willows are a!so beautiful. I would pick up the Sayers ones too if I came across them.

I LOVE The Little Grey Men, Tania. In fact, all of BB's books were favourites of mine as a child :)

I haven't read many other BB books and those I did were so long ago, but Little Grey Men and Down the Bright stream are favourites of mine and stand up to re-reading as an adult. I think maybe Folio excel at classic Children's books.

I adored Brendon Chase, The Forest Of Boland Light Railway and others. They were quite hard to find when I was a child, and many are still out of print, but I think The Little Grey Men books have remained in print.

I've just followed the Dorothy L Sayers Society on Twitter (still vaguely wondering whether to join...) and saw that they have just published a book of DLS' crime reviews, Taking Detective Stories Seriously: The Collected Crime Reviews of Dorothy L. Sayers, edited and with an introduction by Martin Edwards.

This is only available in paperback and in the UK it's £12 direct from the society, including postage, or £13.02 via Amazon.

Here's a link to the society's publications page - they also have a few other publications that can be ordered direct:
https://www.sayers.org.uk/publication...