On the Southern Literary Trail discussion

So, you've finished! Was this your first read of a Ron Rash novel? Or are you a fan of his work and this is an author to whom you return? What did you think about this one? If you write a review, please post a link under this topic.

I don't think this book rose to the level of other books Ron has written. While it was okay by general standards, compared to other books by Ron Rash, I was disappointed. My review is here.

I was disappointed too, but am willing to admit there was something there that I didn't get. Here is a review by Diane: http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...

Yep. It was probably more true to who he is as a writer, considering that about half of it was poetry of a sort, but I did not like this as well as Serena, Straight, or Eden. But his descriptions just still get me! If this had been my first Rash book, I would not have rated it as highly.

This is my first Ron Rash and I thought it was excellent. I still have to write a review and decide on my final rating (4, 4.5 or 5). I really liked the way he slowly revealed Becky and Les.

Sue, maybe that's the secret, that it is your first Ron Rash. Those of us who have read and liked his other books seem to be disappointed with this one, probably because we were expecting more of the same. Kudos to Rash for going in a different direction, that takes confidence in his writing skills, and courage to do what he thinks best .

Diane, you have an excellent point! The "Les" portions were what we usually find in his novels, and I think he did his usual lovely work with Les, but we only had half a book of it.

The painting that hung in his office, exuding loneliness; the tension I felt when they had to go over and open the microwave in the addict's house; and finally his years' worth of taking payoffs from the pot dealers, then giving it all away freely - that is classic Rash.

We had half a book of what we expected, and the rest is filled with something beautiful but that seemingly came out of left field.

He said personally when he introduced this book it would be different from his other works and he hoped that would not be too disappointing . He spoke of all of the turmoil and darkness in the world that was on his mind during the writing of this book. I take from the way he spoke he wanted this book to speciphically persuade his readers to think about the world right now and how we must find a way to unite and get away from the problems of the past and find solutions together so we will continue to have a world of hope and prosperity for our young people . Above the Waterfall was to me Ron Rash's similar work of The Road by Cormac McCarthy .The road is the story of an apocolytic journey of survival and love in the relationship between a father and son . It holds similar themes and messages in my view. Rash is just a more subtle and poetic writer . He put much of his own upbringing in the Appalacian wilderness in this book . His background grounded him as a person and his experiences in his life from that time continue to make his writing special. This book shows a sad apathetic feeling that the young people of today who expect instant gratification , lack respect for anyone and even the good Earth around us , and the view is that some of the reason for their behavior and attitude may come from how they were raised . Parents tend to live their lives through their kids . When youth are set free to think on their own some find choices hard . Thus , the boredom and use of alcohol and drugs and the self- centered behavior. In the book , the new generation of children that visit the park and follow the wonder of nature there is a new hope in their innocence .
So much thought is seen in the depth developed in these characters which I feel are characters that we can all relate . I do think at one point in his talk about this book he referred to this book as a FABLE ! A story that has a lesson behind the theme , and there is so much symbolism and metaphor everywhere .
No, it is not like his other books , but it is not less . Above the Waterfall is still RICH with every word inside . As poetry uses words sparingly to convey magnificent messages so does this novella by Ron Rash . This story just allowed me a deeper appreciation of an author I already loved . Just as my taste in fashion , design , and literature, my mind is too wide open to be anything but eclectic !

I feel a writer should have the right and even the ability to experiment . A writer is one who writes because they are compelled to write in any way form or fashion . Some writers do not ever consider that someone may read their work , but I suppose it is nice to be accepted in that way . Look what lovely poetry Emily Dickenson left behind for the world . Look what we just found left behind from William Gay and Harper Lee .

Now -- my cousin Shane Brown , Larry Brown's middle son , wrote on my Facebook page a couple of days ago that he found a short story that was not published . It was good , he said . He called our friend John Cofield ( his grandfather was family photographer for Faulkner) . John told Shane to get down to the Cool Pad where Larry did all of his writing and search everywhere.
Shane found a treasure of unpublished essays and short stories of his Daddy's. I wish I could show you the piles he had laid out in the picture. I don't know why they were not published . That story is yet to be told ! But , Shane Brown who has been writing too, felt like he was blessed . Larry Brown has been dead well over 10 years now . I am sharing a family secret . I do not know when all will be told !
Just as Above the Waterfall leaves us with the message to not forget to seek the wonder and innocence and curiosity that nature stirs in all of us as children , this message seems to be resonated from many works in years past as the true key to learning to respect and appreciate life . This is a key difference in people sometimes who forget where true beauty and fascinations expands . Our Earth, Nature, other people, we all have value and worth and are truly AMAZING !

Readers read to not feel alone - writers write in hope that someone will find what they have written and understand them , thus they are not alone .
The world of books is my world and I feel really happy here !
Dawn

Well said, Dawn! Your post is a masterpiece in itself. Thank you for pointing out what we all need to remember. And I do hope some of Larry Brown's writing has been discovered....I love his books.

Dawn wrote: "He said personally when he introduced this book it would be different from his other works and he hoped that would not be too disappointing . He spoke of all of the turmoil and darkness in the worl..."

Absolutely wonderful, Dawn.

I know that this is said to be different from other Rash books and, to be honest, I have been hoping that I am not disappointed in the others. I have found the mixture of approaches here to be perfect. Of course, I will find out with future reading. (and I guess I have answered my simmering question about what I will rate this book :-) )

I enjoyed Rash's writing and complicated characters. I think it's great that he took a chance and wrote this book differently than Serena and some of his other novels. I had never previously read any of his poetry. This is my review:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I thought it was one cliche after another. For me the poetry had no depth. The resurrection of the sheriff at the end sucked. Am downgrading this to 2 stars

For Doug, here is an excerpt highlighted by a friend. There really is a pilgrim.

"All we seen is hard trials and sorrows. I’d not deny it. Burdens are plenty in this world and they can pull us down in the lamentation. But the good Lord knows we need to see at least the hem of the robe of glory, and we do.

Ponder a pretty sunset or the dogwoods all ablossom. Every time you see such it’s the hem of the robe of glory. Brothers and sisters, how do you expect to see what you don’t seek? Some claim heaven has streets of gold and all such things, but I hold a different notion. When we’re there, we’ll say to the angels, why, a lot of heaven’s glory was in the place we come from.

And you know what them angels will say? They’ll say yes, pilgrim, and how often did you notice? What did you seek?"

LeAnne wrote: "For Doug, here is an excerpt highlighted by a friend. There really is a pilgrim.

"All we seen is hard trials and sorrows. I’d not deny it. Burdens are plenty in this world and they can pull us do..."

Cheers, LeAnne! :)

I'm just coming onto the Final Impressions thread now. I just finished today and didn't want to risk any spoilers. I'll try to catch up tomorrow. Meanwhile, here's what I thought: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

LeAnne - when I went to the book signing , this was a passage Ron read aloud . He said he always wanted to have a sermon in one of his books . This was a part and it was a beautiful speech to me ! A great part of the key theme to his writing this novel in my opinion . I really just related to this topic very much . I do not agree with John about it being full of cliches . I feel everyone needs to listen to this message over and over again until they begin to actually act to do something to move forward to fix this situation in our world ! I will not ever stop believing in this message or stop showing the behaviors that prove I believe this message .

We must unite together to love our neighbors again and treat others as we would want to be treated. We must show respect and teach respect . We must get our children to seek the wonder and curiosity and beauty of God's gift of life to us and teach them to respect nature . This teaching of the simplicity of our natural world encourages learning without technology that increases analytical thinking skills . Introduce technology later or encourage both technology and investigation and appreciation of life outside in nature alone . There is something to be said to allow the wandering child to wonder on his or her own as they discover and grow .

Yes, LeAnne we must all once again become pilgrims on a journey in search of a sacred and better way of life !

How can this message be a cliche or if it is a cliche , why is this bad to return to in our lives right now ? To John , I will never believe so .

Above the Waterfall is a message I am thankful to have received and to pass on !

~ Dawn

Dawn, we both read the same book. Words held meaning to you. Words just flew by the window for me. I didn't find deep spiritual significance. When I get to Christian or religious buzz words I move right on by. Evidently it spoke to you, and that's a good thing. Let it be enough. We all find pieces of rice along the road.

This Golden Rule idea seems a bit of hog wash to me. The central thesis being that 'treating others the way we want to be treated' assumes that one's personal desires are what's best for someone else. Sounds pretty egotistical and evangelical to me. Ya know , like the europeans treated the native inhabitants living in the New World. Like the Japanese treated WWII POWs. Perhaps a different way to consider it would be' treat others as they wish to be treated..'

Cliches? In this book I didn't see much that was news to me that Mr. Rash hadn't addressed before. Recently I have finished 2 or 3 books that held my attention and delved into themes of personal experiences, tragic racism, loss of family, re-acceptance, among others. I may be a couple of inches short of a mile but I am not a shallow reader. Perhaps what I missed from Mr. Rash was the narrative depth that I came to enjoy in some of his other books, I be thinking of The Cove here. Not a rip roaring story but 'still waters run deep' and I was held by the subtleties, one of which was misplaced and carelessly defined patriotism.

So then, why did I even post originally? I held my tongue, I held my tongue, and I held it awhile longer. Finally the room got to the point where it felt to me like it was going to gush over with rash admiration. I posted to let it be known that there was at least one person who considered this to be trite and of little value. To give pause for reflection. We are not required to elaborate on our conclusions so I didn't. The post was to this room so as not to influence anybody having started and not finished.

Whether I have addressed any of your thoughts or not I don't know. It seemed to me that you were calling me out without speaking to me, so I have responded. Any other thoughts please relay them through email.

John wrote: "gush over with rash admiration. "

Clever.

Tom, yu b da fust

Tom wrote: "John wrote: "gush over with rash admiration. "

Clever."

I thought so too; I liked that comment John. Though I did admire the book, more for a lot of the stylistic elements and individual personal stories than any over-arching story of redemption (which I didn't actually see here). Instead I saw very hard fought individual efforts to maintain status quo or stability in a difficult, angry world of man redeemed by the natural world (which is slowly being destroyed).

Once again, this is my first "Rash" experience, and I do enjoy poetry and other stylistic elements, so all of this may have affected my final impression. And I still have to write a review.

John, enjoy your right to review and comment as you see fit, especially if we are becoming a bit complacent. It may get the conversation moving :-)

I fell somewhere between Dawn's admiration and John's criticism of the book, but that's what reading and discussion are all about. John, your post is very thoughtful, and thanks for the comment on the Golden Rule. Never looked at it that way before, but you are right. It is arrogant when phrased as "treat others as you wish to be treated." I like your version better.

Thanks Diane, I like hanging around here.

John wrote: "Dawn, we both read the same book."

What is terrific about our reading group is that it allows us to see varying takes on the books we have selected, and while each of us is affected differently by the author, I think the reading experience is richer for having seen divergent emotional impacts.

There was a recent debut novel that won praise from Tom Franklin and from most members of our reading group, but it totally fell flat with me. Maybe like me, you feel like the little kid who finally squawks out: the emperor wears no clothes! I wouldn't hold back on my opinions here, though, because when they finally pop out, they're less smooth than they might have been from the get go. For every 5 star read on my list, there are likely many who'd rate the exact same book as a 2. Gushing and groaning are equally acceptable!

As for the golden rule, maybe we're splitting hairs. Taoism, Islam, Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, and the rest convey the same advice - basically, don't be a jerk. Whether people actually followed that rule throughout history or are following it this moment is one of the reasons literature speaks to us. Without the bad guys, there's no plot.

Signed,
A Gusher for Rash :)

John wrote: "This Golden Rule idea seems a bit of hog wash to me. The central thesis being that 'treating others the way we want to be treated' assumes that one's personal desires are what's best for someone else. Sounds pretty egotistical and evangelical to me."

Now that this thread has evolved into an actual conversation, I'll weigh in. When speaking in general terms I see nothing negative about the concept of what the universal principle known as the Golden Rule. To me, the advice to treat others as I would want to be treated means that I should treat others with kindness, fairness, and consideration makes perfect sense. Although I haven't adhered to any faith for quite some time, if this philosophy is evangelical, then I'll have to say, 'I see the light!'.

LeAnne wrote: "John wrote: "Dawn, we both read the same book."

What is terrific about our reading group is that it allows us to see varying takes on the books we have selected, and while each of us is affected d..."

Well said, LeAnne. I'm starting to think maybe we really are sisters from different misters. I had the same thought re the "Golden Rule" discussion here - pure semantics. I'm more of a lapsed Nature Boy than a Christian or a Buddhist and I tend to tread lightly around any organized religions but I'm not allergic to any of their universal well-intended tenets.

*rushes out to hug a tree*

Tom wrote: "John wrote: "This Golden Rule idea seems a bit of hog wash to me. The central thesis being that 'treating others the way we want to be treated' assumes that one's personal desires are what's best f..."

Amen, brother.

LeAnne wrote: "Without the bad guys, there's no plot.
"

This may actually be the true Golden Rule as far as literature is concerned.

Tom wrote: "LeAnne wrote: "Without the bad guys, there's no plot.
"

This may actually be the true Golden Rule as far as literature is concerned."

Ha! It's true - even a blind hog finds an acorn now and then! XO

Doug wrote: "LeAnne wrote: "John wrote: "Dawn, we both read the same book."

What is terrific about our reading group is that it allows us to see varying takes on the books we have selected, and while each of u..."

Doug wrote: "LeAnne wrote: "John wrote: "Dawn, we both read the same book."
"

Suddenly, I'm seeing both of us in powder blue taffeta, on-stage in "White Christmas" singing: Sisters, sisters...Lord help the mister who comes between me and my sister..

We are fab.

Dear John - and this address to you is a cliche ! HA! I love you ! I am so sorry if I hurt your feelings by mentioning you like that in my review . I brought it up because I did think others were being influenced by each other and I just wanted to test the waters so to speak ! Sorry to use this discussion and you as such ! I am still a teacher at heart . I am also a very spiritual person at heart and I did have the advantage of seeing Mr. Rash introduce his book in Oxford in a small setting at a book signing .

One of the reasons I mentioned he read this part as a sermon was that he said he was raised as a true Southern Baptist as most people in the South tend to be raised . He talked about this influence in Southern Literature for a bit . Thus, he included the preaching in this book .

I am a Christian but I never try to force my views on anyone . This is why I state " the Golden Rule " as I do. I do try very hard to follow this standard in my life . I do realize people do not follow this but it has to start somewhere . I teach by example . I am not perfect ! I do not always meet my own expectations either. It was meant as a guideline and I use it that way . I think Rash may have meant it in mentioning it for the characters in his story and he was raised by his grandparents that way as a boy . I was raised in the church that way too . I was not baptist but I went to Church on a regular basis .

In our country at present there is a big desire to bring back these values and get people back into the Christian ways . The government has interfered with that and there is a movement of sorts that says it is needed for the children, crime, and the addicted . That is why I think he included this in a book about criminals , dishonesty in business, and meth addicts. Maybe it was his plea for a come to Jesus moment in this pilgrim sermon and I just became emotional about what he tried to do with what he called his Fable because I have been through all of these things with people close to me within the past few years .

Some people do not like to read spiritual books . That's ok ! I just felt the message very strongly . It was close to my heart and you were right about that . That is the joy of reading and sharing . Point of View is to be respected and I like it when you support it with examples ! That is the teacher in me ! HA! Don't just say something is hogwash ! Tell me why ! Show me cliches or reasons . I gave you my examples . See there I live it again : I treat you the same way I want to be treated .

It is just communication skills that we all need to remember . When you are writing , you don't see body language or hear inflections in voice . Technology is not that way . We have to be more expressive in our language or creative with words . Otherwise, we hurt people we truly care for and respect . I do not ever want to do that . I get it everyday on Facebook or Twitter . I really do not use Twitter anymore. Facebook I use to keep up with groups and birthdays . I hate texting . Just think how long it has been since you have heard the voice of some of your relatives or friends !

I did not mean to go on this rampage , but this book reminded me of so many of these things .

Don't forget to step outside everyday and seek the wonder.

Sincerely ~ Dawn

Oooh Dawn. Thanks for the kind note. All is forgiven if indeed there is something to forgive.

Alas, I was raised as a First Southern Baptist crossed with Presbyterian. At a formatively young age it seemed to me that things didn't add up and I moved on. I believe most enthusiastically in freedom From religion and the complete Separation of church and state. I believe that, as a nation, we will be able to function quite well within the structure of tolerant humanism.

This Golden Rule thing is a little bit more than semantics. It can be a shift in the way we consider our place in the human fabric. The end results and actions may look the same but ones relationship to empathy is worth consideration. This is a fine crowd to hang with. Seems to me there is a strong current of compassion, searching, and interaction amongst us, bless our little hearts.

It is my pleasure to be associated with each and every one of you.

Sincerely ~ John

John wrote: "It is my pleasure to be associated with each and every one of you.

Sincerely ~ John "

Likewise, John, although I've been hanging around this group long enough to what you really mean by the phrase 'bless our little hearts'.

I love Y'all ! Look what books can do ! Ain't this grand ! I have been missing my GOODREADS FRIENDS ! I love your minds too ! I love intellectual discussions ! John , sorry if I did anything wrong at all ! I love our newbies too !

I am REBEL DAWN !

Dawn wrote: "I am REBEL DAWN ! "

Is this where we all stand up and yell "WOLVERINES!"?

I don't mean football necessarily ! But I am one of them too ! HOTTY ! TOODY ! Tom

Dawn wrote: "I don't mean football necessarily ! But I am one of them too ! HOTTY ! TOODY ! Tom "

Actually, I was channeling an old Patrick Swayze movie. Probably before your time.

John wrote: "Oooh Dawn. Thanks for the kind note. All is forgiven if indeed there is something to forgive.

Alas, I was raised as a First Southern Baptist crossed with Presbyterian. At a formatively young age i..."

Yup!
The difference for me are: I'm Northern, raised and remain Roman Catholic though semi-practicing. I am a firm believer in separation of church and state too, as were our founding fathers also (most of whom, from my understanding, were actually more like secular humanists than anything else) They would be rolling over in their graves if they could hear all the beliefs attributed to them.

As for this group. I love the breadth of the reading experience I've had so far and look forward to lots more in the future. One of the best ways to learn,incorporate and resolve differences is to share and learn about them. Certainly we don't all have the same belief systems--what a boring world it would be. Just as the United States cannot be called a Christian nation--it doesn't have an official religion and now has more religious diversity than it ever has. But all those religions have a basis of the compassion, kindness and hope mentioned above.

Sorry--couldn't stop myself!

Wow, this thread certainly got into deep waters! A good thing, I think, as we all seem to be intelligent, thinking, tolerant people, probably based in large part because we read so widely. I myself was raised Southern Baptist, but couldn't make it fit with common sense, so settled for being agnostic. But I certainly understand people of deep faith, because I was raised by and with them. Love everyone who contributes to this group, and let's never be afraid to express an opinion. (Nicely and courteously).

On another subject, was it Leanne who said that all Ron Rash's books had a water theme? This one certainly fits the bill, starting with the title.

Diane wrote: "On another subject, was it Leanne who said that all Ron Rash's books had a water theme? This one certainly fits the bill, starting with the title."

Water seems to have many meanings in this book, or perhaps each man's place in relation to the water (or waterfall--or fall of water).

I wish it were me that made the initial comment about water, but it was one of the boys here.

...and it came from an earlier book discussion - perhaps "Serena" or when we were discussing the two (then) upcoming movies

And I'm still waiting in the library ebook line to finish the book (it returned on me) to see what you guys are so fired up about.

LeAnne wrote: "...and it came from an earlier book discussion - perhaps "Serena" or when we were discussing the two (then) upcoming movies"

Our discussion about One Foot in Eden, and Josh's review of it, mentioned how often Rash uses water as a theme. He also combined Biblical themes with the water themes in that book.

I remember how important water was in The Black Flower: A Novel of the Civil War by Howard Bahr too. I think this is such a life-giving source that it is used a lot. But not always well or convincingly. I liked it here as Rash uses it because it is both reality and metaphor.

LeAnne wrote: "I wish it were me that made the initial comment about water, but it was one of the boys here."

Josh, Connie found the original discussion about Rash's use of water. What led you to see that so early on? And do you think authors that grew up near mountain rivers or on the coast are just in the habit of staring at water with love?

Not sure if most of you have read Michael Farris Smith's "crossover" Southern Lit novel called Rivers, but water - mostly in the form of heavy rain - is a constant in the book. Is this some kind of writing technique, where the authors use specific parts of nature in symbolism? Aside from publishing some science junk, I've never studied writing - but as a reader, why they do certain things intrigues me.

LeAnne wrote: "LeAnne wrote: "I wish it were me that made the initial comment about water, but it was one of the boys here."

Josh, Connie found the original discussion about Rash's use of water. What led you to ..."

Honestly it was something he personally mentioned in a book panel I attended that he was a part of. He did mention his growing up on the rivers, but also mentioned that water carried almost mystical qualities in several of the authors he quite enjoyed. I think (although don't quote this) he referred to Edna O'Brien- he certainly mentioned Irish writers used water as a focal point in ways he respected. This sounds crazy, but I find most the authors I love use both water and/or birds as jumping off points to other themes.

LeAnne - I have a Ron Rash Reader - it is a book that has several excerpts of his works and meant to be used as a teaching source -- I think . I just bought it because it had more poetry inside than I have now . I will try to look up some info on water themes . But there are water themes in his books , just read his titles !

I said I was very spiritual too , but is it not strange that as I was raised in the church , but in the past 10 years the hypo racy in my church has kept me from going . I just practice my sincerity, love , hope, kindness and respect towards others on my own . I read devotions for inspirations and watch Joel Osteen on TV along with everything the Pope says ! HA! We were military and went to a Chapel that was nondenominational in services . Then my Mama informed me I was Methodist ! HA!

Periodically , we attend events at our old country church out at Tula, MS where my Mama was born and raised and I got my moral background from the elderly ! This is also the home of Larry Brown whose family practically ran the Methodist church in Tula .

Strange , how open minded I am about all things and I do try to influence children and young adults as much by example as I can although I know I am not perfect . But, I have to try in kindness and love . I do believe in the constitutional boundaries. But, I also believe this PC culture has gone to far right now . It is interfering with our free speech and other rights . Look at Mizzou right now .

We are made of mostly water! Let the water wash us clean ! Make a fresh start ! We also should not be kept from the good and bad parts of nature . Nature was meant to be shared and there is an abundance to be shared . Greed is not a good quality in people . It causes harm . Moral lessons abound in this Fable as he called it when it was introduced . Remember Faulkner's Fable ?

Goodreads to All ~ Dawn

Peter Mattheisen (sp) is an author who used nature as a character in his fiction and also. He also wrote non-fiction on the natural world. We read Shadow Country here a year or two ago. Josh, I think I'm really drawn to authors who use nature in this way too. Setting is very important to me.

http://cootsreviews.com/2015/09/04/ab...

Hey Y'all !

This is a great link to a blog called CootsReviews ! Everything we have been talking about is also seen by Ole Coot here in a slightly different tone ! He to mentioned a quote from Faulkner that I had forgotten Ron Rash spoke about ! Wow ! That man 's every word was not wasteful ! I wish I could deliver messages as such . I never want to be boring . I do not thing this man could ever be boring ! I am still looking for symbolism of water as used . Let you Joe when I happen upon something !

I am about to enjoy some long awaited WILLIAM GAY I have been looking forward too !

I can't believe we are coming to the end of another year and I am still UNORGANIZED WITH NADA REVIEW ! I have been reading and keeping up - I promise ! I just haven't filled out proper forms ! I guess it is only hurting me !