You'll love this one...!! A book club & more discussion

One of the group reads for November is The Bees by Laline Paull. Please discuss the book in this thread.

In order to receive a badge you must:
1. have completed the book before or during November 2015.
2. discussed it in this thread. Discussion must be more than "I read the book and I liked it". Discussion requires something more substantial and analytical of what you read, for example, thoughts, opinions, impact it had on you, what was your favourite part, was it what you expected it to be like etc. You may also like to review the book and post a link to the review in this thread.
3. Report that you have read AND discussed the book in the reporting thread.

General Rules:
1. Please mark your spoilers with the spoiler tags along with mentioning what stage of the book you are at so other's don't get a nasty shock. Chapter numbers/titles are generally best as they are the same across all formats and editions.
2. The book may be combined with the Year Long Challenge, Topplers, and Monthly Challenges.

Happy reading!

I started reading this today and am up to the beginning of Chapter 8 (page 55). It is a quirky, unusual book to be sure but I am enjoying it so far. Tbh, it's pretty fascinating. I really like the world building, Laline Paull is doing a great job of bringing the world of the hive and its resident bees to life. I think she has a great imagination! I also feel like I am already being drawn into the life of the main character, Flora 717. She is definitely an unconventional bee. (view spoiler)[She is bigger than most of the other bees, she can talk and think for herself and she can produce 'Flow' (royal jelly) which is something a bee of her standing within the hive should not be able to do. At the moment her 'gifts' seem more of a curse than a blessing so I am looking forward to seeing what will happen to her as the story unfolds. I am particularly curious as to why she needs to "Beware the Sage". (hide spoiler)] I guess all will become clear...

I love it, Lisa. You are having all of the same thoughts as I did when I read it. Your spoiler is right on! Your line about the author's imagination is exactly what I put in my review, I think. ^_^

I've heard great things about this book, and have had it for some time now. I'm glad it was chosen as I can now move it to the top of my list.

I am up to Chapter 23 (page 173). I am still enjoying it but I am finding some of the descriptions of (view spoiler)[scent to be a bit repetitive at times. I understand that scent is very important to the bees and that it binds them all together and helps to create and maintain the hierarchy within the hive but I personally feel that Laline Paull has gone a bit overboard with describing them. I would prefer a bit more character development and a few less fragrant descriptions but this is just my personal taste. (hide spoiler)]

I am still very intrigued by Flora 717. She is a very interesting and unique heroine and I am enjoying seeing events play out through her eyes. One of things I particularly like about the book is (view spoiler)[how human the bees feel at times. There have been several occasions when I have forgotten that they are, in fact, insects and not people because of the human qualities and traits they have exhibited. (hide spoiler)]

I am also enjoying how Laline Paull is weaving the perils faced by real bees into the storyline. Our bees here in the UK are really struggling at the moment due to loss of habitat, loss of food sources, external predators etc, so it's good to see their plight highlighted through Flora's battles and encounters with (view spoiler)[wasps, birds, poison, electricity pylons and so on (hide spoiler)]. Raising awareness can only be a good thing.

(view spoiler)[I am quite surprised how brutal and macabre this book is at times. Bees being torn apart, crushed, having their necks broken! Life in a hive is certainly no walk in the park! You literally need eyes in the back of your head, or, preferably, a brain and talents like Flora. (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[I don't really like Sir Linden as a character, or any of the other drones tbh. They don't really seem to do anything except demand food all the time and swagger around being arrogant. I think Sir Linden is the best of the bunch but I hope Flora doesn't end up falling in love with him as I suspect she is going to. (hide spoiler)]

The thing I am most curious about is how (view spoiler)[Flora is able to produce eggs without actually mating with a drone. She seems to be able to produce eggs merely from breathing in a drone's scent. Was she born with this ability or did the Queen somehow instill this ability in her when Flora waited on her for those few days? Also, what is happening to the Queen? Is she really dying? The young wasp that Flora encountered certainly seemed to think so. If this is the case, is it from natural causes or are there more sinister forces at work? Is someone trying to get rid of her in order to take over the hive themselves? (hide spoiler)]Hopefully the answers will all be revealed by the time the book wraps up.

I have started this, only on chapter 2 though. I am very sure this is going to worth the read, very intriguing.

Your remark about fantasy makes me curious, MsG. I could admit that I struggle with reality, but I am not sure it is the same. ;) I do understand not being in the mood or the right frame of mind to get into a book though.

Are you having a hard time picturing what is going on, or is it the text?

Lisa - I had a hard time with the scent scenes, but it was fascinating too. I think the character development happened as the story went on (view spoiler)[the Queen's caregivers were very confusing to me (hide spoiler)]. I agree about Sir Linden - I did not like him much either (view spoiler)[ but he does redeem himself later (hide spoiler)]

I didn't start the book yet, MsG, but it seems to be a good for not everybody's taste. Maybe trying a few pages more when you are less tired?
I think it's fine to give up on a book when you are not enjoying it, though. Too many good books around!

MsG wrote: "Finished chapter 2. I really don't do good with fantasy. I like stepping outside of my box and trying new genres and authors.
I'm struggling with this one, but will not return it to the library ju..."

I think I understand what you mean. I generally have a hard time with fantasy and I had a hard time with this one as well. I read it a while back so don't remember all the details but it was a hard one for me to fully get into as well.

Thanks, Sandra. I agree. Give up if you don't like it after you have given it a chance.

I am not trying to be confrontational. I just want to know what it means when someone says that they have a hard time with fantasy.

Tasha - can you explain? What was hard? Was it the prospective? Was it the bee as a character?

@Cherie,
I know the question was for Tasha, but I will introduce my spoon too. :)
I'm a very realistic person, so reading fantasy (and science fiction) sometimes is a little challenging for me. I would say that my main problems are relate to the characters and build the world in my mind. Of course there are as many fantastic worlds and characters as fantasy books, so my experience is not always the same. I loved The Lord of the Rings, The Hunger Games and The Neverending Story. I have many fantasy books in my TBR that I think I would enjoy, but there are a lot more that as soon as I read the description, I know I just will have problems getting into them.
Not sure if this makes sense. :)

@MsG, I don't think Cherie is making a big deal of this. (That doesn't sound like Cherie at all!). I guess that she is just trying to kindle a little this discussion. A third of the month has go and there are only 15 comments in this thread. This is very unusual in this group for a monthly read. We are in general much more active. It happens that most of us who expect to read this book didn't started it yet. Real life getting in the way... I'm sure Cherie is just trying to have the discussion going and making the best of it.

I just joined the group. I checked to see if the library has an available copy and they do, so I'll be starting the book tomorrow. I'm looking forward to it. I love fantasy books as long as the author actually took the time to create the place in which the fantasy takes place. Sometimes I have a hard time with a fantasy book if I can't really imagine the world in which it takes place.

Great Brianna. The more the merrier!

Yes, thank you Sandra. I really am a nice person!

I am curious about the response to this book, but fantasy in general. There ARE some fantasy books that I have started and not enjoyed. If the writing style is too dry or the world building too long winded and slow or the characters seem too strange or boring. If I feel like I have given the book an honest try and can't get into it, there is nothing left but to jump ship and abandon it.

For me, fantasy books are an adventure. It is like going on vacation. I want to go places I have never been before. I want see the scenery and take in the sights. I want to meet and talk to interesting, new people.

For me, this book fulfilled all of the criteria. It had a little humor thrown in, and some beautiful scene setting. It was such a unique perspective. The author's imagination dazzled me and her prose was simple but beautiful at times. And, yes there was some dark, gross things thrown in too but that just made it honest and more realistic. I never thought about what happened to a bee caught out in the rain or what hazards they faced trying to avoid getting eaten or killed (and maybe what goes through their minds). You might never either unless you read this book.

Welcome Brianna!

I was surprised to read The Bees was being shelved as Fantasy. As you all know, I'm a big Fantasy reader but for some reason I hadn't associated this book with that genre. Obviously I've not read the book so I might think differently if I did.

Cherie wrote: "Thanks, Sandra. I agree. Give up if you don't like it after you have given it a chance.

I am not trying to be confrontational. I just want to know what it means when someone says that they have a..."

Cherie, I don't think you are being confrontational at all!! Just curious. :)

For me, I wasn't a fan of the fact that a bee was given such human-like qualities, I think. It's been a while since I read this and it was an audio which can make a big difference in my experience with a read. I think that was the biggest thing. I consider that fantasy. I didn't like that she wasn't a 'bee' but instead was made to be act more 'human'. I would have much rather have read a non-fic book about bees than this one.

I did rate it 3 stars so looking back I see that I didn't hate it! haha I just wasn't a big fan of it. I think there were parts I appreciated to give it that rating but overall it just didn't work for me.

I do like some fantasy but I much prefer a more 'regular' story. I loved Harry Potter, Game of Thrones and I enjoyed the one Terry Pratchett book I read (I plan on reading more!) so it's not all fantasy genre. I do have 'fantasy' books on my tbr bc I am always willing to give things a try. :)

I haven't read this book either, nor do I plan to. But, I stumbled on your discussion about fantasy and why some people have a difficult time with it. My opinion is that one needs to be able to suspend disbelief enough to accept the impossible as possible.

I also think that it's personal preference. Some people have a hard time reading some genres - romance, erotica, thrillers, etc. It just doesn't appeal to them.

I am up to chapter 10. So far so good. I am interested to know a little more about bees when they explain the different roles of the bees.

For example how much is real are gatherer bees only gatherer bees. Do they smell different?

It is interesting how we see the book in different views.

As I liked that the bee was given more human qualities and this story I see in a dystopian view. It makes the story more enjoyable.

I am a huge fan of the fantasy genre. I agree with Janice that some suspension of disbelief is needed in order to enjoy fantasy books but personal preference definitely plays a part too. One person may love a particular genre, the next person may hate it. I have always struggled with science fiction. There has been the odd book in this genre that I have enjoyed but on the whole, it just doesn't work for me or appeal to me.

Tasha☺ wrote: "It is interesting how we see the book in different views.

As I liked that the bee was given more human qualities and this story I see in a dystopian view. It makes the story more enjoyable."

I'm with you Tasha. I am enjoying the human traits and characteristics that the author has given to the bees.

I agree with science fiction especially when it is about creatures and bugs. It will turn me off and I will close the book and have a hard time finishing.

I was nervous with this one being about bees as I don't like bugs and insects but it moves well and the story is interesting.

Sarah wrote: "Welcome Brianna!

I was surprised to read The Bees was being shelved as Fantasy. As you all know, I'm a big Fantasy reader but for some reason I hadn't associated this book with that genre. Obvious..."

I agree. I don't think that The Bees meets the genre requirements for fantasy. It doesn't have a magical system and it's from the POV of the animal. It's not a talking animal that also fights with swords and stuff. I think this falls under speculative fiction.

maybe fable + speculative fiction?

I think the "problem" with some fantasy books is: the necessity for the reader to create a new "vocabulary" to cognitively enjoy the material as presented. The "creative" brain does this quite easily. The "logical" brain is sometimes impaired in this situation.

I'm about 50 pages in and have found it to be quite intriguing how the author is "creating" life inside a hive. It's something I have NEVER, EVER thought about--hahaha!!! (view spoiler)[ The visual my mind created of little bee inspectors with calipers attached to them measuring the bellies of other bees cracked me up. And the... "Our Mother, who art in labor, Hallowed be thy womb" was pretty funny, too!! (hide spoiler)] One thing is for certain, I will never look at a bee the same way again. I do hope this one ends has a happy ending.

I am up to Chapter 38 (page 299).

Chapters 27-29 - (view spoiler)[The massacre of the drones was pretty brutal! I wonder if it based on real bee behaviour? I know that the drones get evicted from the hive eventually but I haven't ever heard of them being killed by the female bees. I might have to go and look it up, it's got me curious. Sir Linden definitely had a lucky escape! (hide spoiler)]

Spiders - (view spoiler)[The spiders are creeping me out, particularly that Minerva spider that Flora encountered in the 'glass house'! It sounds like it was based on the house spiders that we get here in the UK which are one of my worse nightmares as I am really scared of spiders. The descriptions of its huge hairy legs appearing over the window ledge and it looming over the old, wingless fly made my skin crawl as I could picture it really clearly in my head! *shudder*. Also, how do the spiders know what is going to happen within the hive and to Flora? Are they psychic or is there another explanation? (hide spoiler)]

Chapters 35-36 - (view spoiler)[I had a feeling earlier on in the book that the Queen may have been ill or dying and it is now confirmed that she was harbouring a sickness which was slowly infecting the hive. I don't think Flora should feel too guilty about revealing that the Queen was sick. If she had remained silent, every bee in the hive could have caught it and died. It wasn't nice that the Queen was killed because of it but I suppose it was better to lose one individual rather than the whole hive. Again, I like the way Laline Paull weaved another real life bee problem into the storyline. Bees in the UK have been struggling with diseases over the past few years and many hives have been decimated because of them so it was interesting to see it touched upon here. (hide spoiler)]

Chapters 37-38 - (view spoiler)[I have a strong feeling that Flora's new egg is going to produce a female bee seeing as it is larger and slightly different in shape to the previous two, which were both male. If this is the case, could she become the new heir to the hive? I don't think the Sage will be too pleased with that. I still don't quite know what to make of them but they are definitely suspicious. Did they make the Queen sick in order to get rid of her so that they could put a queen of their choosing on the throne? Will it be one of them that will be revealed as being the new queen? (hide spoiler)]

Janice wrote: "My opinion is that one needs to be able to suspend disbelief enough to accept the impossible as possible.

I also think that it's personal preference. Some people have a hard time reading some genres - romance, erotica, thrillers, etc. It just doesn't appeal to them..."

See, Janice, I get that. If the contents of a story do not appeal to someone, I could understand them not wanting to reading it, just like spooky, over the top suspense does not appeal much to me. I can take romance or leave it, but it is more a mood thing there. If there is humor - it is a maybe. Maybe the final answer I was looking for is your first statement about belief suspension. I think it is an act of escapism that I embrace.

Thank you.

Wow - cool but disconcerting to have two Tasha's in the thread. LOL.

So - one of you likes the human qualities and the other doesn't.

Thank you for responding and explaining.

Lol just keeping you on your toes Cherie :)

Lori wrote: "I think the "problem" with some fantasy books is: the necessity for the reader to create a new "vocabulary" to cognitively enjoy the material as presented. The "creative" brain does this quite easi..."

Ah, the "creative" brain vs the "logical" brain...
I don't know. I have a terrible time understanding and playing those roll playing fantasy games like WoW. I don't get it at all, let alone running around killing everything.

Book comments: Yes, Lori, all of what you said went through my mind about what went on in the hive, and I cracked up about some of the Our Mother things too.

Thanks Sarah. I didn't think it would be fantasy either. All I kept thinking about is that Bee Movie my little cousin used to always make me watch with him and how this book better not be like that movie. Then, I read the summary and actually wanted to read it.

Yes I know the movie you mean Brianna. And now I'll forever link this book and that movie - I hadn't thought about it before. But from looking at the comments in this thread I don't think they are anything alike so I guess you're in luck.

I have finished. I gave it 4 stars in the end. I found the whole thing very intriguing and I really liked Flora as a character. She was a great heroine and I enjoyed going on a journey with her. As I mentioned previously, I think the author has a brilliant imagination and has created a unique story here. The world of the bees was wonderfully realised. I don't think I will look at them in quite the same way again. However, I did have a few problems with it which is why I gave it 4 stars instead of 5. Firstly, as previously mentioned, I struggled at times with the numerous descriptions of scents. There were far too many of them in my opinion and I think the point could still have been made if they had been cut down. Secondly, I felt that the storyline became a bit repetitive at times. There were several scenes which seemed to occur more than once which sucked some of the enjoyment out of the book for me. Lastly, I wasn't the biggest fan of the ending. (view spoiler)[Did Flora die after her daughter mated with Sir Linden and became Queen? It says she settled down to rest and then cut to the epilogue so I am not sure if she died or not. Sir Linden had died and we discover in the epilogue that the old beekeeper who was looking after their hive had also died so I am wondering if Flora's life was mirroring his and she also died at that point after fulfilling her destiny? I don't mind ambiguity in endings but on this occasion, I personally would have preferred a clearer explanation. Also, whilst on the subject of Sir Linden, I did like him a bit more by the end but I still don't understand how it was that Flora came to love him. She hardly had anything to do with him, then fell in love with him but it ended without them getting together. It all felt a bit random to me. (hide spoiler)]

Overall, this was a really enjoyable book and I am so glad that I finally got a chance to read it as it had been sitting on my TBR pile since last Christmas. I hope the rest of you that are reading it this month also enjoy it :)

Tasha☺ wrote: "Lol just keeping you on your toes Cherie :)"

yep, makes things more exciting! It's rare to have 2 Tashas around... ;)

I finally started the book, I'm on Chapter 7. I must say that I wouldn't want to be a bee in that hive. I like to consider myself different from others, so I couldn't imagine life where everything is the same all the time. I guess I'd be Flora a little bit, except I don't know if that's a good or bad thing right now. On the other hand I most likely would have been the little bee at the beginning and that's sad. So, I think I'll just observe the characters in the book from the outside as I'm not sure I want to relate to them being that I love my differences and wouldn't want deadly consequences because of that.

I do like the book although I got a little confused at the beginning and had to start over. I was only on page 8 though, so not too bad.

Also is anyone understanding this so-called experiment testing gong on with Flora? And is what the bees are referring to as evil changes probably just global warming or something of that sort?

@Lisa I was getting a little overwhelmed with the scents too as I was reading. I blurted out "What's with this bee and all these scents?" And of course my boyfriend had to put his two sense in it (he doesn't even read books) and say, "Don't bees need rely on scent to get around and find nectar?"

I guess he thinks he's a bee expert or something of that nature. But I guess it does kind of make sense. Bees do rely a lot on scents, so maybe the author was just letting us know she did at least some type of research on bees. On the other hand, my boyfriend's comment is probably just getting to me because it does make some sense lol.

Brianna wrote: "And is what the bees are referring too as evil changes probably just global warming or something of that sort?"

That's how I read it Brianna. I thought they were referring to the external problems faced by bees such as loss of habitat, lack of food, global warming etc.

Lol about your boyfriend! He is right though, bees do rely heavily on scent. I just felt that the author could have cut down on the descriptions a bit and still have gotten the point across.

Maybe the author is trying to make the reader totally focus on the sense of smell, since it's the sense bees relies more (as Brianna's BF said). Kind of trying of make you feel more like a bee. :) Just guessing. I didn't start it yet, but I plan to do it today, since it obvious I'm not finishing my book for my book club meeting today, anyway.

@Lisa that's kind of what I was thinking once I reread it. I tried to figure out what was so important about that prologue, (view spoiler)[ you know were that real estate agent is talking to that man about selling his land (hide spoiler)] and I notice a subtle hint (view spoiler)[ him saying, "Is it raining already?" (hide spoiler)] I just kind of thought maybe it's the changes in the weather like global warming because they make me mad too. I mean one day it's nice still got 1 week or 2 of summer left and bam it's cold and you need a jacket and you trying to decide whether to store away all your summer stuff. Then once you decide to store, bam it's hot again. So I guess if I was a bee that would scare me since I wouldn't know the cause of it.

@Sandra That's what I'm thinking she was trying to do. It just seems like so many. I was starting feel like I was in anatomy class again and I need to remember all those word beginnings and endings for different parts of the body. What a nightmare that was and part of my reason for switching my major to accounting. But at least these scents are for my entertainment and I don't have to remember them after I'm done with this book. I hope you will like the book, I think it's pretty good so far. I cab only guarantee you too chapter 7 though cause that's as far as I've made it.

Brianna - you will find out at the end of the story why the prologue was important.

Cherie wrote: "Brianna - you will find out at the end of the story why the prologue was important."

Oh great!!! I guess I was just a little too ahead of myself.

I started it yesterday. So far is good.
I liked the way the authors describes the characters, as if she were describing persons:

"He was rumpled but elegant, and very concerned with the exact set of his neck ruff." page 8

"Only now did she fully appreciate the beauty of Sister Sage's elegant form, how her pale gold fur lay in silky stripes against the thin brown gloss of her bands, themselves exactly matched by the shade of her six legs. Long, translucent wings folded down her back, and her antennae tapered to fine points." page 10

I finished chapter 5. I agree (view spoiler)[climatic changes and/or other things are disturbing the hive, and the bees attribute it to some "evil" among them. Maybe the people in the prologue with the buy/sell the property issue has something to do with it? (hide spoiler)]

Sandra wrote: "I started it yesterday. So far is good.
I liked the way the authors describes the characters, as if she were describing persons:

"He was rumpled but elegant, and very concerned with the exact set ..."

How she describes things was my favorite part of the book and the characters, Sarah. She is absolutely painting with words!

This is a really intriguing book! I'm at chapter 10 I'm listening to it - and glad I am - I love the narrator. I must confess I wasn't keen on reading it - not my usual cup of tea, but I am quite fascinated by the author's ability and imagination bringing these bees to life. I'm still trying to figure out what I think of the book!

I am looking forward to listening to it in the future, just to enjoy it again!

Lilisa wrote: "This is a really intriguing book! I'm at chapter 10 I'm listening to it - and glad I am - I love the narrator. I must confess I wasn't keen on reading it - not my usual cup of tea, but I am quite f..."

I read the physical book but I'm thinking I might also give the audiobook a try. Glad you are enjoying it so far Lilisa. I found it really intriguing too. I never thought a book written from the point of view of an insect could be so fascinating!

Lisa wrote: "Lilisa wrote: "This is a really intriguing book! I'm at chapter 10 I'm listening to it - and glad I am - I love the narrator. I must confess I wasn't keen on reading it - not my usual cup of tea, b..."

I also read the physical book but love listening to books I read later if the narrator is good. Sometimes it's like experiencing two completely different books.