The Patrick Hamilton Appreciation Society discussion

Hello. Has anyone read this, seen the play, or watched the Hitchcock film? I'm currently reading the play and would love to discuss it.

I've only seen the film Doug - and that was many moons ago. I do remember it as good, albeit a tad stagey. The story is fantastic though. The conceit of the two murderers particularly and the slow build up of tension.

A real murder case inspired it (though I seem to remember PH denied this) - the murder of 14-year-old Bobby Franks in 1924 by University of Chicago students Nathan Leopold and Richard Loeb.

How does the play work as a read? I've only ever read one play (Death of a Salesman) and I enjoyed that experience.

I could well be tempted to give this a read myself. I've been meaning to do it for eons - and organise a rewatch of the Hitchcock film version (which I recall PH didn't like much).

I've always wondered about reading plays as well, Nigeyb. Do you think you need to know the story or have seen the play to get the most out of reading a play? How does it compare to reading a novel?

Good questions Ruth. I only have the one experience I mention above - Death of a Salesman - and I'd never seen the play and didn't know the story, and I still really enjoyed it. So my tentative response would be you don't need any prior knowledge.

I'd say I prefer reading a novel though.

Nigeyb wrote: "I've only seen the film Doug - and that was many moons ago. I do remember it as good, albeit a tad stagey. The story is fantastic though. The conceit of the two murderers particularly and the slow ..."

I'm enjoying it. It's more comedic than I expected. A send up of English class differences, the nuances of which I'm sure you'd appreciate more than me. I expect the Hitchcock film probably focused more on the horror.

Do you know if this was the play that garnered fame for Hamilton at the time? Or was it Gaslight? There's a significant gap in time between the two.

Ruth wrote: "I've always wondered about reading plays as well, Nigeyb. Do you think you need to know the story or have seen the play to get the most out of reading a play? How does it compare to reading a novel?"

I've read many plays, mostly in college. I actually enjoy reading them more than watching them. Very similar to reading a novel but more about showing a story than telling a story. You should try one. My favorites are anything by Tenessee Williams (especially The Glass Menagerie) , Eugene O'Neill, and Lillian Hellman. I did read Death of a Salesman too and enjoyed that also, Nigey.

^ Thanks Doug - I think it's high time I read it too


Doug wrote: "Do you know if this was the play that garnered fame for Hamilton at the time? Or was it Gaslight? There's a significant gap in time between the two. "

Rope was the one that originally made him successful, and wealthy. Gas Light added to his acclaim and wealth. A successful play was a very big deal back then. In the 1940s both plays were made into films (Gas Light twice) and this just added to their success - but it was the original theatrical productions, and numerous revivals, that kept the money coming in.

Nigeyb wrote: "Rope was the one that originally made him successful, and wealthy. Gas Light added to his acclaim and wealth."

Cheers for the info, mate. As we say here in The States, "You the man".

Thanks Doug. I've always fancied reading some Tom Stoppard so I might give it a go.

I got my copy of Rope: A Play the other day - not sure when I'll get to it however I will update this thread once I'm into it

Nigeyb wrote: "I got my copy of Rope: A Play the other day - not sure when I'll get to it however I will update this thread once I'm into it"

I'll look forward to your thoughts. I was confused about some of the class relationships and/or philosophies of the day that were at work in it. I started to write a review, then gave up. I think you'll understand it much better than I did and your insights will likely help further my own understanding. I might re-read it along with you or shortly after.

Thanks Doug. I'll try and get to it soon.

I'm underway with Rope. I'll update this thread with occasional musings.

I've only seen the Hitchcock film. I remember reading something about Hollywood's concerns about the male characters referring to one another as 'old boy' or something like that and it was thought it would be too blatantly camp. The first time I saw the film I'd not read any Hamilton. I've seen it again since reading most of his novels (but not the play) and enjoyed it both times. But Hamilton really wasn't pleased with the adaptation.

These are his words:

'I was heartbroken by the film of Rope. I had thought that working with Hitchcock was going to be heaven, and put everything I knew into it. However, he utterly rejected my script, got someone else to write it, and finally produced a film which I think (and all intelligent friends agree) was sordid and practically meaningless balls.'

Well! Nigeyb and Doug... you'd get gold stars!

Nigeyb wrote: "I'm underway with Rope. I'll update this thread with occasional musings."

Looking forward to your thoughts.

Lucinda wrote: "I've only seen the Hitchcock film. I remember reading something about Hollywood's concerns about the male characters referring to one another as 'old boy' or something like that and it was thought ..."

I still haven't seen the Hitchcock film, but someone told me it's the gayest film he ever made. The gay theme seemed very subtle to me in the play. I wasn't sure if it was intended or if I was reading into it.

Well, I think in the play it was implicit, whereas Hitchcock wanted to bring it out and see what he could get away with. I think he quite enjoyed being risque. One of the scriptwriters Hitchcock got in to write the screenplay said of Rope: 'We never discussed the homosexual element of the script, but Hitchcock knew what he wanted to get away with... He might have been indirect in dealing with sexual things in his films, but he had a strong instinct for them. He thought everyone was doing something physical and nasty behind every closed door - except himself: he withdrew; he wouldn't be part of it.'

^ Thanks for these interesting and insightful comments. I've not made much headway with the play yet but enjoyed what I've read so far.

Did you know it was on Radio 4 Extra recently and it's still available on the iplayer? http://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=Patrick...

^ I didn't but I am very glad to learn that. I'm off to record it now - to listen on my MP3 player v soon

Thanks for telling us about that Ruth.

^ And thanks from me too. I've heard a few snippets and it's excellent.

I can upload a file for anyone who wants to download a copy to listen to on an MP3 player - let me know and it shall be done.

I am really enjoying reading the play too. I'm up to page 22 (about a third of the way through) and the tension is being slowly ratcheted up. Can't wait to listen to the BBC Radio version now.

Ruth wrote: "Did you know it was on Radio 4 Extra recently and it's still available on the iplayer? http://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=Patrick..."

Thanks, Ruth and Nigey. Unfortunately, I can't watch this. (I'm an American without access to iPlayer and also MP3 player-less). The best I can do for free at the moment is watch a Spanish-dubbed version of the Hitchock film on YouTube.

^ That's a shame Doug. I think you'd enjoy it. Alan Rickman (RIP) is on fine form as Rupert Cadell

Thanks so much for alerting me to this. I listened, with huge enjoyment, text in hand. It was only slightly abridged, taking out twenties references which would have confused contemporary audiences, and making slight adjustments for a radio rather than a theatre audience. A fitting tribute to the late Alan Rickman.
Patrick Hamilton has been poorly served on film and television, apart from the superlative 2005 BBC version of "20,000 Streets". The London Weekend "The Charmer" with Nigel Havers in 1987 was great tv, but only loosely based on "Mr Stimpson and Mr Gorse". The 1963 "Bitter Harvest" written by Ted Willis, and being an updated version of "The Siege of Pleasure", is watchable, but run of the mill. Hitchcock's "Rope" is cinematographically fascinating for its series of extended takes, but less than a great version of the original. As for the two cinema versions of "Gaslight", a much better play than "Rope", both are hugely enjoyable. The 1940 UK version is much better than the 1944 Hollywood remake, which won Ingrid Bergman an Oscar, but both suffer from being opened up, and thus losing the intense claustrophobia of the stage version.

And the 1945 film version of "Hangover Square" is fascinating, but has as good as no relevance to the novel at all!

Thanks for your posts Andrew. Great stuff - as always.


I concur about the 2005 BBC version of "20,000 Streets" - which is a keeper (I don't tend to hang onto DVDs).

I've only seen the UK version of "Gaslight" and I liked it a lot - I must try to track down the US version.

I'm not a great fan of Hitchcock's version of Rope. It's OK but not up there with his best work - and I can see why our man was disappointed with the adaptation.

I've never seen The Charmer - and think I should put that right. I loved "Mr Stimpson and Mr Gorse".

And I didn't know about "Bitter Harvest" - though your comments do not inspire me.

One day I'll track down the film version of "Hangover Square" - though I'm in no hurry.

I am still enjoying a leisurely read of "Rope"

Spurred on by yesterday's BBC "Rope", I have just re-read, for the first time in years, Hamilton's last and sadly weakest play, "The Man Upstairs". It is a remarkably silly piece of work, but the first act is nonetheless intensely gripping and menacing, and worth looking at for that alone.

I have to say that the film version of Hangover Square was what first brought me to Hamilton. it shares virtually nothing in common with the book other than title and character names but it's a superb film. Laird Cregar is brilliant and if you can you should check him out in The Lodger too.

Thanks CQM2 - a couple of recommendations I will follow up


I have now finished reading Rope and also listened to the BBC radio play.

Click here to read my review

I loved both.

The BBC play makes a few minor amendments. Sir Johnstone's sister, who seems to serve no function at all in the play, is edited out by the BBC, and a few stage directions are written into the dialogue, otherwise it seemed to me to be very faithful to the script.

Alan Rickman playing Rupert Cadell (the role played by James Stewart in the Hitchcock film) as a camp, cold intellectual aesthete, and survivor of the trenches with a tin leg, is brilliant. It is he who gives this cruel and brilliant play the merest hint of decency and compassion.

For those with a Spotify premium account, included in the audiobook offer (a rather measly 15 hrs/month after which cash is demanded) is a Hamilton collection of “BBC Radio full-cast productions” which I’ve yet to investigate:

https://open.spotify.com/show/6nGrSqr...

The total time is 10 hours 50 minutes and the contents are:
Hangover Square
Rope
Gaslight
Twenty Thousand Streets Under The Sky
The Governess
To The Public Danger
The Duke In Distress
A Portrait In Black (described as ‘extra content’)

11 hours for that lot must mean pretty savage ‘abridgements’, I’d wager, but BBC drama has a good reputation in this regard.

Thanks David


I don't have a premium account but this could convince me to take the plunge

Please rpeort back

Eardrum-deep in Barry Hines’s The Gamekeeper currently - 75% insights to estate game-management, 10% class politics, 15% family relationships, but very good - but I’ll lug in to the Beeb’s offer without exhausting my time limit, to sample the sounds.

It may not be part of the audiobook entitlement of course, perhaps rubbing shoulders with Pinkerton’s Assorted Colours, Uriah Heep, and Blossom Dearie in the music offer.

Stand by.

Thanks David - I have a free log in so will see what's what. Otherwise my kids both have premium accounts so could doubtless piggyback


Barry Hines is fab

Who knew?.....


https://open.spotify.com/artist/5gxCZ...

Not to be confused with our man



https://www.patrickhamiltonmusic.com/...

Patrick Hamilton is a multi-faceted artist who effortlessly moves between the roles of composer, producer and performer. Signed to Sony Music Masterworks, Hamilton successfully combines his work as a composer in the contemporary space with his work in film and TV score composition.

Artistically diverse, Patrick Hamilton is rooted in the core classical tradition. Hailing from Bruges in Belgium, he was classically trained at the Royal Conservatoires in Bruges & Ghent before embarking on a hugely successful and varied musical career, spanning many genres.....

It IS filed under ‘audiobooks’ and its 11 hours will exhaust my current month’s limit.

It would be worth sampling some of the 18 chapters, but they aren’t captioned in any way to describe their individual contents!

I’ll take a chance on a couple in a Keatsian pursuit of both truth and beauty.

I'd expect nothing less David

OK, I’ve been able to ID what’s on each of the Spotify chapters from listening to the introductory info for each:

1. General info 1 minute
2. Hangover Square 1 44 minutes
3. Hangover Square 2 45 minutes
4. Rope 1 30 minutes
5. Rope 2 30 minutes
6. Rope 3 14 minutes
7. Gaslight 58 minutes
8. Twenty Thousand Streets Under The Sky 1 57 minutes
9. TTSUTS 2 57 minutes
10. TTSUTS 3 57 minutes
11. The Governess 1 (PH’s own adaptation) 29 minutes
12. The Governess 2 33 minutes
13. The Governess 3 25 minutes
14. To The Public Danger 52 minutes
15. The Duke In Darkness 1 30 minutes
16. The Duke In Darkness 2 32 minutes
17. The Duke In Darkness 3 24 minutes
18. Portrait In Black 27 minutes

I’ve made the assumption that where a track goes straight into the drama without a plummy-voiced continuity announcer introduction, that it is a second/third part of the preceding drama.

I’ll probably sacrifice a bit of my monthly 15 hours, and listen to something with which I’m familiar eg The Midnight Bell to get a hint of the quality, but given that BBC Radio drama has a fantastic reputation, I’m pretty certain that this will be a joy.

Interesting selection


I await your reaction with great curiosity

I listened to the opening 25 minutes of The Midnight Bell (Part 1 of the Twenty Thousand Streets Under The Sky trilogy) and it’s more than well worth your ear-time.

The production’s actors are well-chosen, and act their parts very well, especially the grotesque caricature that is the lascivious self-obsessed Ernest Eccles. You can almost HEAR the Komic Kapitals as he advises Ella that he has Something Comfortably Put By.

A word of praise too for the producer for creating very credibly the atmosphere of The Midnight Bell itself. Noisy and boisterous, especially as closing time beckons, it never overpowers the dialogue but puts the listener in the centre of the action.

If the other chapters are realised, acted and directed as well as this, there are treats in store. I’ll certainly be devouring them in the next few months.

That all sounds wonderful


Thanks David, duly noted