Poldark Saga - Winston Graham discussion

SPOILERS-Battle of Waterloo
(view spoiler)[ I did NOT anticipate the death of Jeremy Poldark. With Francis, I had seen a rude Facebook post with no spoiler warning that gave it away. With Elizabeth, I had seen a family tree that had listed the year of her death. Although I'm thankful I learned of his fate on my own, it was heartbreaking. I'm glad that he at least got a "death scene" with Ross. He certainly deserved that.

Book 2.Chapter 13.V
"He half woke to find someone kneeling beside him. He must have been dragged back because he was in some sort of shelter. This man was kneeling beside him. Then he knew he was delirious.
'Father.'
'Jeremy...'
The man was ragged and bloodstained and had a week's growth of beard. Be he wore no hat and that made him unmistakable.
Somebody wiped the corner of his mouth. The battle was still raging but seemed more distant. In a corner Sergeant Evans was trying to staunch the blood from his leg. It was very dark.
'This--a dream?'
'No. Can you drink this?'
Blessed water. But it didn't seem to go farther than his throat.
'What are you doing?'
'I escaped from Verdun. I would have been with you earlier but my horse was killed. Jeremy, lie still.'
'No choice,' said Jeremy. 'Is the battle...?'
'Still close. But the Imperial Guard have been broken. They came in a great mass and have broken, have given way. And they say the Prussians are in sight.'
'Lost a lot,' said Jeremy with a sigh, 'of my friends.'
'By God, I can't find a surgeon!' said Ross, speaking into the air. 'Jeremy, my son, lie quiet. Can you take some more water?' He wiped the blood again from the corner of Jeremy's mouth.
'These horses,' said Jeremy. 'They should never be in war. If men have to fight--let 'em fight on foot.'
'I will see if I can find someone,' Ross said, his voice unrecognizable even to himself.
'Don't go...Is it night yet?'
'No, about eight, I think. I cannot tell you for my watch is broke.'
Jeremy saw now there were a couple dozen men in the hut. All must be in great pain, but no one was groaning--only the occasional sigh and grunt.
'Father...'
'Yes?'
'My love to mother.'
'Yes.'
'Tell her...'
'What?'
'No matter. I wanted to tell her--something. Perhaps I left it too late. But I have written.'
Ross felt the tears running down his face. He bent to wipe the blood one again from Jeremy's mouth.
'Perhaps the next war,' said Jeremy, 'will be fought with steam engines.'
Evans was dragging himself towards the door. He knew if he could not get help soon he would bleed to death.
'Father,' said Jeremy.
'Yes?'
'Look after Cuby...'
'Of course. I promise.'
'That,' said Jeremy, 'is the hardest part of all.'
And then he died." (hide spoiler)]

spoiler: (view spoiler)[... (hide spoiler)]If Jeremy’s death was not unexpected and horrible enough to read. The next Book Three. Chapter One, Page 419, in the letter Ross writes to Demelza, the readers’ tears will continue…
He lived for perhaps half an hour, but did not seem to be in pain. He knew me and sent a loving message to you. That is all I can say.
That night, the Sunday night, I stayed by him, while the French army finally broke and were destroyed by the Prussians. I did a little to help some of the wounded but am afraid I was too distracted and distraught to have done all I should. On the Monday morning I Was able to find a conveyance of sort to carry him back to Brussels. The road was impossible still, for the wounded, the baggage trains, the commissary engines, the medical supplies, wandering groups of soldier trying to regain their units, we went with the majority, but a few vehicles were fighting their way against the tide. The road had almost broken up with the pressure it had been under and in some places it was a sea of mud. In one place we were held up for fifteen minutes while vehicles were at a standstill. Then sitting there as I did helpless upon my horse, I heard a voice cry ‘Captain Poldark!’
It was Cuby. It seems that Lady de Lancy, Sir William’s wife, hearing that her husband as lying grievously wounded in a cottage in the village of Waterloo, had hired a coach and coachman, and, learning of this, Cuby had asked if she might travel with her to see if she could gain news of Jeremy. It was my appalling duty to give her that news.
Dearest Demelza, I have never seen a woman more heartbroken than Cuby was when she realized what I was saying – I know of only one who will be more so and she is holding this letter. What can I say to comfort you when there is no comfort? I try think of the three children we have left and our duty to them not to fall into utter despair. That many a father and mother through the ages have suffered as we suffer now does not make it easier to sustain. Nor the thought of thousands of other parents who have been bereaved by this battle. Perhaps we have always been too close a family. To feel so deeply about one’s children is a great happiness – and a great danger.
Jeremy is buried in the Protestant Cemetery of St. Jose ten Noode, just on the south side of the Chausee de Louvain. It was a simple ceremony, but a dignified one. A stone will be put up.
I am returning to England tomorrow with Cuby. She rode in front of me to Brussels and I thought every moment she would faint and fall. I will remain a day or two in London before returning to Cornwall. At present she thinks she will stay a little while with her brother Augustus in London. She thinks that returning to Cornwall only seven months since leaving in such happiness is more than she can face.
She bears our first grandchild.
My love it is only three months since we separated but it is like an age. I long to see you. Perhaps we can comfort each other. Ross

spoiler: (view spoiler)[... (hide spoiler)]

Victoria, agreed. And then every time they discussed their loss, the heartbreak continued. And the bits at the end: Cuby giving birth without Jeremy and then Demelza getting rid of the loving cup, was so bittersweet.

TANYA...I agree the heartbreak seemed unending (not surprising of course) After writing the above last night I re-read the rest of THE TWISTED SWORD, for probably the fourth time. Still so very sad and need for tissues. When Ross was able to talk with Dwight, giving him additional horrifying details and the loss in his own words, brought the tears again. One of my unforgettable paragraphs: THE TWISTED SWORD, Book Three, Chapter 10, Page 559. Cuby has come to Nampara for the first time, Demelza is reading a letter from Geoffrey Charles outloud.
'Lady Poldark,' Cuby said 'May I come and sit next to you?' 'Of course, of course.' Demelza continued to read and then said 'Cuby...''Yes Lady Poldark?' 'You cannot go on calling me Lady Poldark. I am Jeremy's mother.' 'It does not matter. I just want you to know...' 'What is it?' 'How much I grieve. Underneath. I put on a pretty show. But underneath.'
Demelza said: 'Perhaps without him we are both a little hollow.' Cuby put her wet eyes against Demelza's hand. 'I wish I could die.'

Days after finishing that passage, I am still sad about Jeremy. To think about all the real young men who were killed in that battle, and all the battles throughout history - all the potential lost, all the sorrow and pain. Jeremy personifies it for me, even though he's a fictional character.

Brenda wrote: "Days after finishing that passage, I am still sad about Jeremy. To think about all the real young men who were killed in that battle, and all the battles throughout history - all the potential lost..."

Understandably, Demelza's personality never seemed the same after that. At first I thought perhaps WG wasn't very good at writing middle aged women, but then concluded that it was due to Jeremy's death. She didn't recover as she did after Julia's death because the situation was so much different, including her age and his.

In book one after Julia's death Ross remarked that Demelza would recover first due to something in her personality, but I don't think that held in this case. (view spoiler)[I believe the next book starts a few years later, and that is one of the places where I think Ross is actually very sweet and caring. He has basically not strayed far from home all that time because of his concern for her during her grief. (hide spoiler)]

Jeremy's death was surprising and totally compelling.

As readers, we'd already suffered through the death of baby Julia; and (at least I) could assume that Ross and Demelza's future offspring would not be abruptly killed off again. Hah!
(view spoiler)[
So when the Battle of Waterloo traps three Poldarks in its carnage, and one doesn't make it out alive, it was especially horrible to me as a reader, that it was Jeremy who didn't survive. (although I'd have hated it if Geoffrey Charles or Ross died there) We saw Jeremy born perilously and watched him grow. As a young man, he seemed to be the most intelligent of all the Poldarks, rather unusual and ahead of his time as a wannabe engineer. He was a somewhat spoiled young man, but didn't seem to have a malicious bone in his body; despite his escapade as a highway robber. And then, suddenly, he took a huge leap in emotional maturity, persuading the girl he loved to elope with him and enjoying several months of happiness with her and success in his military career. (even Wellington takes note of him).

I suppose Jeremy was lucky in that he had the meager comfort of his father's presence in his last minutes of life. I think Jeremy was fairly resigned to his fate by the time Ross found him; Ross was understandably devastated.

I think that one reason that Ross later tries so hard to save Valentine from terrible danger is that he could not save Jeremy. (hide spoiler)]

Pat wrote: "Jeremy's death was surprising and totally compelling...

(view spoiler)[ Good insight about Ross trying so hard to save Valentine because he could not save Jeremy. I'm sure that's part of his motivation for going into a burning house! (hide spoiler)]

Haven't reread Twisted Sword yet, but tears flowed when he died...and also the thought of how LONG it took for Ross to truly appreciate and love him!!

The dust jacket of Bella Poldark gave away the spoiler but it didn't make me feel any less sad. I was worried ahead of time for Demelza. I didn't know about (view spoiler)[Cuby and the unborn Noelle! (hide spoiler)] and I didn't expect Ross to take it so badly. (view spoiler)[Being a soldier himself, he knew the risks and also not being super close with his son, I thought would lessen the blow. I was wrong and that made it way worse. (hide spoiler)] I'm devastated that (view spoiler)[Noelle will never know her Papa and even little Henry won't remember or really ever knew Jeremy. That to me is the worst part. Jeremy's friend Goldworthy was a real person and had some success at the steam carriage. How tragic for Jeremy! If he had lived perhaps he would have succeeded in making an early steam carriage after all. (hide spoiler)]

My heart went out to Demelza. It was worse than losing Julia as she had spent so much more time with Jeremy.

Stella wrote: "My heart went out to Demelza. It was worse than losing Julia as she had spent so much more time with Jeremy."

Yes, she remarks on that. Julia was only 18 months and Jeremy was 24 YEARS. That's so much more time to get to know your child. She also remarks that he was born at their lowest point and there with his parents through all the downs and ups. The girls and Henry have always known prosperity and happiness.

I think also because they had thought the war was over and Jeremy was safe from harm that made it worse. If he had died earlier, they would have been sad but it would have been more expected. Like, they had only just let out their breaths after holding them for so long.

I grieved for weeks after I finished The Twisted Sword.

QNPoohBear wrote: ‘She also remarks that he was born at their lowest point and there with his parents through all the downs and ups. The girls and Henry have always known prosperity and happiness.’

What Demelza is forgetting is that Ross’ lowest point came later, when she forsook him for the sailor poet. Both Jeremy and Clowance had to spend their most formative years with parents whose own emotional difficulties dominated their lives. Ross admits it took him ‘years’ to get over Demelza’s infidelity with Armitage and it could be that his two eldest living children were subconscious reminders of that turbulent past.
His coolness towards Jeremy and his failure to protect Clowance from Stephen Carrington probably stem from memories of his own marital difficulties in the mid 1790’s. There was a seven year gap between the birth of Clowance and Bella which is telling in itself and reflects how long it took for Ross and Demelza to get their family life back on track.

I don't think that any of the Poldark children were ever old enough to be aware of the rifts between Demelza and Ross. Jeremy was much too young to understand the fallout over the night at Trenwith and Jeremy and Clowance were still not old enough to be aware of any rift between Ross and Demelza over Hugh because Ross went to London to brood and Demelza would have made sure the children didn't sense anything amiss at home. As adults, Jeremy and Clowance never mentioned Elizabeth or Hugh in any regard.

I don't think Ross ever let the two 'rifts' involving Elizabeth or Hugh affect his feelings for his children.. He loved his children. After the loss of Julia, Ross placed a high value on his children. I doubt his and Demelza's infidelities touched his attitude towards his children.

Ross couldn't understand Jeremy's fascination with the invention of steam energy. Demelza understood Jeremy better.

Ross and Clowance were more alike and he was especially fond of Clowance. Ross and Demelza had agreed when the children were young that they would not force them into prearranged marriages as was the usual custom. When it came to Stephen, Ross and Demelza knew that Clowance was stubborn and trying to prevent her from marrying Stephen would only make her more determined. Also, they may not have liked Carrington but they had nothing to hold against him.

The seven year gap doesn't really mean anything. Ross and Demelza had dealt with their issues and were happily looking forward to entering the new century TOGETHER. Henry was born twelve years after Isabella Rose and the Poldarks had had a very happy lusty relationship throughout the time.

Jeremy did have a hint that his parents' marriage wasn't always rosy. He tells, I think it's Stephen or Paul, his parents don't bicker like other people's parents but if they fight, it's over something big. He remembers a feeling of being torn. He was old enough to be aware that something was going on but not specifically what it was. Kids are more intuitive than adults give them credit for. I've seen it in my nieces and nephews.

Consider that Demelsa did talk to her Clowance about Ross and her relationship:
“‘Clowance, I do not greatly enjoy seeing your father flirting with some handsome woman, any more than he would take too kindly if I flirted outrageously with some handsome man, as has happened now and then in the past. But we have been together for a very long time, him and me, and except for one dire event on his side, and one dire event on mine – of which you already know much and need have no expectation of hearing more from me now – we have been a veritable Darby and Joan to each other.’ ‘Who were Darby and Joan?’ ‘Oh, folk in some old ballad. But mark you, we still feel as much for each other, your father and me, as we have always felt. In our lives, and I’m serious now, we have had so much loving, so very much loving. It has not staled. It varies from year to year, but it keeps always to a constant pitch of – of being deeply and truly involved. And desirous. Against this – if you put this against your father having a frolic on the dance floor with the beautiful second wife of his oldest enemy – this frolic is as important as a ball of fluff.’ ‘It’s lovely to know,’ Clowance said, embarrassed now that she had brought up the subject. ‘Of course, I have always known. The whole family knows it.” (BP, pp. 249-250). Pan Macmillan. Kindle Edition.

Also early in SFTS
“The first decade of the century had been a good one, her relationship with Ross back to the early days, warm and full of laughter, intermittently passionate, always friendly. Into that sort of companionship they had been able to draw their two eldest children so that, in spite of occasional disagreements, the accord in the house, the outspokenness, and the affection was notable. (TSFTS, p. 73). Pan Macmillan. Kindle Edition.