Tournament of Books discussion

Oreo, by Fran Ross



About the Book (excerpted from Goodreads)
Oreo is a playful, modernized parody of the classical odyssey of Theseus with a feminist twist, immersed in seventies pop culture, and mixing standard English, black vernacular, and Yiddish with wisecracking aplomb.


About the Author
Born on June 25, 1935, in Philadelphia, she was the eldest daughter of Gerald Ross, a store clerk, and Bernatta Bass Ross, a welder. Recognized for her scholastic, artistic and athletic talents, she earned a scholarship to Temple University after graduating from Overbrook High School at the age of 15. Ross graduated from Temple University in 1956 with a B. S. degree in Communications, Journalism and Theatre. She worked for a short time at the Saturday Evening Post. Ross moved to New York in 1960, where she applied to work for McGraw-Hill and later Simon and Schuster as a proofreader, working on Ed Koch's first book, among others. Ross began her novel Oreo hoping for a career in writing, and it was published in 1974 at the height of the Black Power movement of the 1960s and 1970s. Ross wrote articles for magazines such as Essence, Titters and Playboy, and then got work on The Richard Pryor Show. She was unable to complete a second novel, due to difficulties supporting herself on this work. She worked in media and publishing until she died on September 17, 1985 in New York City. Mat Johnson has hailed Ross's work as a masterpiece that was ahead of its time.

Biographic Information from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran_Ross


NY Times Essay on African American Satire, by Paul Beatty:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/22/boo...

NPR Essay, by Mat Johnson:
http://www.npr.org/2011/03/09/1342047...


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If you would like to chat about this book, or this author, here's a place to do so!

Happy reading!!

I haven't started Oreo yet but noticed that my library purchased this book in 2011 and I am most definitely the first person to open it. AND I'm the first person to comment here? I guess I will be thinking of Oreo as the underdog in the tournament.

Kendra, I'm not sure if it's an underdog! I was surprised at the number of people in our group who had read it, who own it, and/or who had it on their TBR list before we began. Be that as it may people haven't commented yet.

This is a novel where I think it's good to read this brief introductory essay from the New Yorker before you begin, just to ground your reading since the novel does come from a different era:

http://www.newyorker.com/books/page-t...

Also, I recommend you read the very brief essays linked above in Jennifer's intro, before you start. You'll see that two African American satirists who had novels published this year, Mat Johnson (with Loving Day) and Paul Beatty (with The Sellout are both huge fans of Oreo.

Kendra wrote: "I haven't started Oreo yet but noticed that my library purchased this book in 2011 and I am most definitely the first person to open it. AND I'm the first person to comment here? I guess I will be ..."

I have not started yet because I own and my library had a bunch of the other books on the shelf so I am reading those before I have to return. :)

Beverly wrote: "Kendra wrote: "I haven't started Oreo yet but noticed that my library purchased this book in 2011 and I am most definitely the first person to open it. AND I'm the first person to comment here? I g..."

Oreo is the only true satire we have in the tournament. There are elements of satire in The Story of My Teeth and Welcome to Braggsville and Delicious Foods, but especially these last two novels use satirical elements as a means to an end, more as a way to get us to the heart of some otherwise unbearable ugly truths. Oreo in contrast is full of such joy, a real celebration of identity.

Kendra wrote: "I haven't started Oreo yet but noticed that my library purchased this book in 2011 and I am most definitely the first person to open it. AND I'm the first person to comment here? I guess I will be ..."

I am just reading through the books in order of the match-ups, so while this book is coming up, I haven't got there yet. I am looking forward to it though. I like the underdog idea, Kendra -- given the book and author's history, it would be fun to see it have a great year in 2015!!!

I had this book on my shelves already and was happy the AltToB team picked it. Having read it now, I'm struggling with the mismatch I feel between how much I admire everything the author accomplished (great protagonist, phenomenal wordplay, wonderful reworking of Greek mythology, fearless abuse of cultural & racial stereotypes) and the fact that I didn't find the book all that funny (in contrast to Delicious Foods, The Sellout, and Braggsville). I finally gave up thinking I *should* find it funny, and my enjoyment greatly increased. Unfortunately it took me about 80% of the book to get to that point. Poingu, there's a lot to be said for your idea of not disapproving of books that fail to do what we think they should (and apologies if I've mangled your idea beyond recognition!).

In any case, I'm very glad I've read this, grateful for the book's existence, and sad the author died so young and without the book's having been recognized as a great work of American & African-American satire. Looking forward to hearing others' responses to the book.

The book sounds intriguing but excuse me for a dumb question. If it was published in 1974, how did it get to be in this year's AltToB?

Judy, it was reissued this year. I believe it's also on the TOB long list.

Thanks Jan. I didn't know that reissues were eligible.

Judy wrote: "Thanks Jan. I didn't know that reissues were eligible."

Technically, they might not be, but in the spirit of fun and flexibility that the TOB embodies, they squeezed in a side entrance. :-)

Fun and flexibility are fine with me!

Judy wrote: "The book sounds intriguing but excuse me for a dumb question. If it was published in 1974, how did it get to be in this year's AltToB?"

we totally went rogue in deciding to include it in our alt-TOB... since we aren't really bound by any rules. haha!!! jan is right about the fun and flexibility factoring in!! :)

i was surprised (in a good way) to see the real TOB include it. and i don't think they offered an explanation for its inclusion. but maybe that will follow if the book makes the final 16?

Curiouser and curiouser. It must be quite a book. I am going to read it now for sure.

Judy wrote: "Curiouser and curiouser. It must be quite a book. I am going to read it now for sure."

it's coming up for me soon too!! i hope you will enjoy it, judy! :)

Judy wrote: "The book sounds intriguing but excuse me for a dumb question. If it was published in 1974, how did it get to be in this year's AltToB?"

Hi Judy. I'd read Oreo in May and when Jennifer was perusing my 5-star reads for the year it caught her eye and after both being sorry it was first published in 1974 we decided "why the hell not, we are "ALT" tob after all!" because we wanted to introduce this book to all of you and it might as well have never been published since barely anyone read it before 1) New Directions published it again this year, and 2) it got raves from both Mat Johnson (author of Loving Day) and Paul Beatty (author of The Sellout).

I liked those two novels too, but figure everyone will have heard of them and that they would both make the long list. Which they did...the big surprise though was that Oreo made it, too.

At first I was surprised but then I realized it isn't the only exception--A Manual for Cleaning Women: Selected Stories is also a re-issue of a book published in 1977. Berlin died in 2004. Also I believe some of the translations on the long list like were published in their original language before 2015...Signs Preceding the End of the World I believe was published in 2009.

Thanks Poingu. I have no problem with reading books written before NOW. In fact, I have something I call My Big Fat Reading Project (my essay about it is on Goodreads via my profile page) in which I am reading certain lists of books published in every year since I was born. I am excited to know about this one and thank you for the brief history of how it was chosen. Why the hell not, indeed!

Judy wrote: "Thanks Poingu. I have no problem with reading books written before NOW. In fact, I have something I call My Big Fat Reading Project (my essay about it is on Goodreads via my profile page) in which ..."

I heard about Oreo first in Kirkus Review in April and was immediately drawn to it because I'd just read Their Eyes Were Watching God, another amazing book by an African American woman, a novel that was rescued from complete oblivion by Alice Walker when she wrote about it in Ms. Magazine in 1975. Our Nig, same thing, sold poorly and fell out of print until Henry Louis Gates republished in 1982. This is an old story of course. Seeing Oreo on the TOB longlist made me happiest of seeing any of my favorite reads for 2015 there.

Yes Poingu, I get it!

I just realized of all the altTOB read so far, none of them were from female POV (even the ones written by women) so I'm skipping The Story of My Teeth and jumping into Oreo (and still hoping to get Under the Udala Trees or Aquarium via library soon)

I don't get a chance to read many of the books for TOB, but had picked this one up several months ago at Parnassus in Nashville. And am starting it now as its made the short list, and I'm really loving the slyness of the whole thing. The mix of vernacular (even equations) is fabulous. Just about to start on Oreo's adventure to find her father and looking forward to it!

Nope. This was not for me. I felt pretty dumb reading this one. I guess this book is too smart for me. Although, when things did click it was great, so I can understand why others loved this one so much.

I really liked 90% of this book. The ending totally lost me, though. :(

Dianah wrote: "I really liked 90% of this book. The ending totally lost me, though. :("

Now that's interesting. I was lost from the beginning and the end didn't seem more bizarre than the rest. Maybe though come to think of it if this is a quest-to-find-dad novel I'm not wondering why the reunion was of so little consequence or duration before something else happened.

I wonder now and then what semantic background would be best for reading this story. The Yiddish was transparently comprehensible to me. Maybe to everyone? Was that because I studied German? Other things I just figured I wasn't supposed to understand, and just listened to the sound of the language in my head.

***SPOILERS***

Does anyone have opinions about what the ending was all about? The dog, the jingle in the dog's collar, the double, the phone conversation with the cook, the whole "deposits" thing? I was just so totally lost. When I found the Greek mythology key in the back, I was excited, because I love those Greeks, but it didn't help my understanding much. Anyone care to shed some light?

The ending is deeply rooted in the legend of Theseus, as the afterword (sort of) explains. This was the only part of the book that seemed forced to me, and I wonder if ,perhaps, there wasn't a longer draft that fleshed out these elements a little more.
All in all I was wowed by this hidden gem. In my head I couldn't help but compare it to last year's A Brave Man Seven Storeys Tall.

Ohenrypacey wrote: "The ending is deeply rooted in the legend of Theseus, as the afterword (sort of) explains. This was the only part of the book that seemed forced to me, and I wonder if ,perhaps, there wasn't a long..."

your note and a few others makes me want to check out A Brave Man Seven Storeys Tall again--it seems to have been the "hidden gem" of last year's reads for a lot of people and I think I read it too fast.

The end of Oreo lost me completely, especially the not-rape scene, which I needed to do a lot of thinking about--offensive? empowering? also is the meaning different now from when it was written? etc. and I never quite tied up my feelings. It's still an incredible book for all that comes before, from the first page on, the torrent of invention.

I thought the "not rape scene" was a good example (one of many) of the novel not taking itself too seriously. The whole WIT concept was cartoonish, but in a fun "I don't give a ..." Kind of way. I was reminded of A Confederacy of Dunces.