The Malazan Fallen discussion

Ch 21 discussion - No spoilers from beyond this chapter

Well I'm in the right place now - I completely missed that it was TCG who was chatting with ST last time! This blew me away! It's obvious they've communicated before. I like this, it makes the abrupt change from the old man in the hut doing terrible things to Rhulad somewhat less jarring. I almost wonder if that was part of ST's plan. At the least, knowing that someone is working for his freedom could well have helped with TCG finding some heart again.

The Crippled God's discourse is a response to a proposition put to him by Shadowthrone. I believe that proposition is something like "I work to see you released, and you surrender your right to vengeance on this world" - The Crippled God states that Shadowthrone aks too much of him - but agrees anyway.

We also get a glimpse of Picker asking Karsa to fulfill his promise. ie To kill a god. We now can narrow that down to one of the gods of war

There are too many gods of war"

Picker is here acting as Trake's Mortal sword - so that leaves the Wolves - or Fener.

Qick Ben and Kalam have joined Paran and take out the leaders of the FA besieging One Arm's host. Without a mind to direct the Shriven they are incapable of war strategy and Paran takes them out.

Paran and Quick Ben give us a summary of the state of play at the moment. According to Paran the Tiste Liosan intend to take out Kurald Galain and then oust Shadowthrone and take the throne of Shadow for themselves - same as the first time. From there they hook up with the FA to annihilate humanity.

The otataral dragon is set free to eliminate magic - unless the Elient kill her in which case the Elient will then kill everything and whatever's left won't dare you magic ever again. In the meantime the Otataral dragon is killing Burn.

Paran asserts his faith in Fiddler and Tavore - he basically says Tavore tops the likes of Dassem and Coltaine for military strategy.

We get an admission from Quick Ben that the Bridgeburners were contemplating taking down Laseen ie her pogrom against the Bridgeburners was justified by any Emperor's standard

And Tehol sends supplies from Lether.

Tehol's message made me laugh.

And I think Karsa must kill Fener, because everybody is talking about one god of war, not two.

I wonder why would everyone (of the pantheon) think of failure, if Cotillion and ST would succeed with their plan. And where is Cotillion travelling and why.

There is mention of Gruntle, who I thought was dead. Do they not know? Or is he not dead? Or maybe like many in the series, dead doesn't mean much.

Also, I'm curious the significance of using otataral in the desert. First Kalam uses his to kill a bunch of people, and the last watered laughs about it as she dies.

Then the FA freak the hell out about Tagore's sword.

I'm sure this relates to the otataral dragon being loose. Maybe it will attract it?

Any chapter with QB and Kalam working together are a win in my book.

Rob wrote: "There is mention of Gruntle, who I thought was dead. Do they not know? Or is he not dead? Or maybe like many in the series, dead doesn't mean much."

They either don't know or there is some "slippage" in the timeline and he hasn't actually died yet

Rob wrote: "Also, I'm curious the significance of using otataral in the desert. First Kalam uses his to kill a bunch of people, and the last watered laughs about it as she dies."

That's because the Otataral dragon is loose so drawing the Otataral knife or maybe getting blood on the knife draws the dragon.

Rob wrote: "Then the FA freak the hell out about Tagore's sword."

They freak out because they had assumed that she died in the wasteland based on the fact they couldn't scry her presence. Tavore and the Bonehunters hadn't figured in their strategy - but learning of the Otataral sword just destroyed that assumption.

I think Rob is onto something about the otaral sword, and it's more than just Tavore being alive. Their forces ae huge, and another tired broken army isn't going to freak them out that much. It's the otaral, and Rob is probably right about the sword attracting Korabas.

I think QB wanted Kalam to sheath his otataral knife because he cannot cast spells and make them invisible again.

FA freaking out about Tavore's sword, that's another story, I think they are surprised, because otataral is worse explanation to not felt anything in Glass desert than dead army. So they can't feel Bonehunters and can't predict their movements.

But yes, there is surely some connection to otataral dragon, but in my opinion it is not only reason for FA and QB worrying about that.

I agree QB couldn't work his magic with Kalam's daggers unsheathed. And I think the FA being worried about the movement is also true, but I still suspect there's something about the dragon. Come to think of it, wasn't Tavore's sword sheathed until the moment of drawing the water? And I can't remember, did the FA sense some disturbance, which might have been that?

I'm so ready to continue reading! From what I remember it gets GREAT now!

The final watered FA Kalam kills laughs when she overhears QB telling Kalam to put his Otaral blade away. That's why I suspect it will attract the dragon more than the other FA freaking out about Tavore's sword.

I wasn't even talking about QB's motivations. I wouldn't be surprised if it's both the effect on his magic AND him worried about the dragon though.

That's right, I forgot about that laugh, which pretty much sealed my assumption about the dragon.

Lori (Hellian) wrote: "That's right, I forgot about that laugh, which pretty much sealed my assumption about the dragon."

I just have to repeat myself a few times for people to read what I write. :)

But I was agreeing with you from the start!

Lori (Hellian) wrote: "But I was agreeing with you from the start!"

True. But everyone ignored that part of my first post for some reason.

Rob wrote: "Lori (Hellian) wrote: "But I was agreeing with you from the start!"

True. But everyone ignored that part of my first post for some reason."

No...I answered that part of your question then you obviously ignored my response :)

I then ignored your speculation about Tavore and the sword because I believe the FA have ignored her but as no one was ignoring how Otataral draws the OD I just assumed nobody was ignorant.

What was the question again?

Well, I didn't ask any questions about the Otataral weapons, just Gruntle. I made some comments, but you're right, I misread your response.

I can't stand it I'm reading ahead.

I'm reading Warbreaker then I'll be finishing the rest of this.

Well I have been ignoring you all, but have finally caught up. Like L'oric I am ........ha.... Spell check just converted Lori to L'oric.

Anyway, got some reading time and might have to run on to the end like Lori. Not L'Oric.

heh

Several years late to the party here, but I'm on a re-read and wanted to chime in on the Karsa vs. War God discussion above. I found this passage from House of Chains (during Karsa's rampage), my favourite piece of foreshadowing in the entire series:

(view spoiler)[ "A low altar caught Karsa's attention. Some lowlander god, signified by a small clay statue - a boar, standing on its hind legs. The Teblor knocked it to the earthen floor, then shattered it with a single stomp of his heel" (hide spoiler)]