Heathens, Pagans and Witches discussion
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Silver Ravenwolf
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I've read a little of Ravenwolf's work, while her writing style is intriguing and inspiring to the new practicioner, also look into more scholarly works to influence your practice. I'm not sure which pantheon directions you lean in, but be sure to pick up a solid work of anthropological folklore from the lands where those gods originated. I've learned more from "Scandinavian Folk Belief and Legend" edited by Reimund Kvideland and Henning K. Sehmsdorf than I ever could from Ms. Ravenwolf. :)
I am into the etruscan, roman, and italian deities. I have italian witchcraft by grimassi but not sure if there are other books...yes silver is good for basics and astrology and her book on angels is awesome! But I see what you mean about anthropology. Do you know how I would find one on italian deities? Oh and I just joined sacred mists college. are you familiar?
Grimassi is a very wise and nice man (I've been to a few of his talks). I've been working my way through his Thorn-blooded Witch Grimoire... as with a lot of pagans, I'm kinda skeptical of everything, so I like to go looking for people that have other things to say on the subject. When I was investigating Italian Witchcraft heritage for a friend of mine, I came across this article: http://web.archive.org/web/2006022204... I'm sure you might find it useful!
I'm not familiar with the sacred mists college, do they have a website? I love to see what other groups of people are up to, even if I am mostly solitary.
http://www.workingwitches.com/I will read this article, thank you! WHat did you read by Silver RavenWolf?
Oh goodness, a bit of this and a little of that, to be honest most of her stuff is too entry-level for me now. I haven't actually finished one of her books since I read her "Teen Witch" when I was a wee high school freshman dipping my toes into Wicca because my Lutheran upbringing just wasn't working for me anymore.
Paul wrote: "I am gay so if I am going to worship the deities might as well be homoerotic deities right?"Which deities? Just curious...I don't think I have encountered one...many that are sexually flexible shall we say (eg: Zeus and his fixation with all things callipygian...Loki, OK, mainly mythical beasts and giants if memory serves)...but none that are exclusively "homoerotic".
there is a section in gay witchcraft called queer positive deities with many many stories. It appeals to me in eventually choosing a patron deity.
Supposedly Hua Tin Bai is homoerotic friendly. That's China though. An obscure Tao deity, I don't know if there's still much belief in him these days.
I have heard from many people that "much of what she writes is unethical, bigoted, a lie, or simply wrong. She’s the poster girl for “bad witchcraft 101 books”. A lot of people start out with her because her books are easy to find and attractive (for whatever reason) and end up feeling betrayed later on when they discover something she wrote and they believed isn’t actually true."also http://www.ecauldron.net/opedtarnishe...
and http://wicca.cnbeyer.com/continuing-a...
plus Wicca =/=Witchcraft
another quote from a person "Quite frankly, I think that Silver RavenWolf is a shameless purveyor of some of the worst tripe that exists in pagan literature today. I think her attitude towards Christians and non-Wiccan witches is appalling. I think her constant insistence that there is no difference between Wicca and witchcraft and that you can’t have one without the other is nothing short of stupidity. I think her constant reinforcement of misinformation, false history, and contradictory double-speak is incredibly harmful to new witches trying to learn the craft.
I think her attitude toward culturally appropriative practices smacks of privilege and entitlement. I think the racist “mammy” dolls she put in her online shop are disgusting and directly profit from racism. I think her books aren’t worth the paper they’re printed on and I would warn any beginner witch who’d listen to avoid them like the veritable plague. I think her writings are responsible for a lot of the bullshit and a lot of the drama that exists in the pagan community, because her books have formed part of the foundation of the New Age movement…and because, for a long time, there was no one around to refute her claims.
I think she is ignorant, shamelessly racist, full of herself, and out of touch with the pagan community and the real history of the world in general."
some more
" I am not a fan of Silver Ravenwolf. She is very problematic for the pagan community in general and Wicca specifically. And while I do not like speaking badly of anyone that has done what they can to further paganism…some of the the things that she has done have been…wrong.
Now, first let me say that I know that sooner or later every pagan (myself included) is going to throw a piece of misinformation out there. It’s usually accidental. I find this forgivable because most of us have not had formal training and are going off of memory…memory is imperfect. You get the picture.
So, no…I don’t dislike every pagan who says something that turns out to be wrong. But S.R.W is the Queen of this. Moreover, she has had enough access to some of the most well learned and practiced Priests and Priestesses that paganism has to offer…and she still spreads misinformation and hatred. This, to me, is unforgivable.
I will explain, I will even have quotes.
“ There is no difference between Wicca and WitchCraft. Anyone who tells you there is a difference is experimenting in the theory of Occum’s Razor.” -SIlver Raven Wolf, The Teen Witch Handbook.
NO!. Wicca is a religion. Witchcraft is, as the name states, a CRAFT. It is nondenominational. While the two can, and often do, overlap; they are NOT the same thing. She needs to stop perpetuating the idea that if you use magic you are automatically a Wiccan.
Moreover…writing a handbook for Teen Witches is a money grab geared towards people who are just beginning their personal spiritual path and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Why? Because most teens don’t actually know what is and what isn’t a good
“Wicca — It is thought that this term was originally coined by Selena Fox of the Circle Sanctuary in an effort to describe the modern religion of WitchCraft ” -Silver Ravenwolf, The Teen Witch Handbook.
NO. Rev. Selena Fox is a High Priestess of the Wiccan tradition, an author, and a religious activist on the behalf of pagans of America. She was one of the first non-abrahamic reverends in the U.S. She is one of our most respected High Priestesses and Minister of the Circle Sanctuary (one of the few recognized pagan sanctuaries in America). She is a wonderful person and has done a lot for the pagan community as a whole. But she did not coin the term “Wiccan”. The first modern use of the term Wiccan, was by Gerald Gardner in 1954. Selena Fox was 6 at the time.
“Another name for a solitary witch is ‘natural witch’.” Silver Ravenwolf. Book of Shadows: Solitary Witchcraft
NO. Seriously. A solitary witch is a witch who practices her craft without the aid of a coven. “natural” witch has multiple meanings and I am not a fan of the term at all.
“… the traditional colors for Mayday are red and white representing the blood that flows from the woman when her purity is taken….” Silver Ravenwolf, To Ride a Silver Broomkstick
Oh my fucking god….no. Wiccans do no view the ‘purity’ of a woman as a virginal state. Maiden, Mother, and Crone. It’s not Virgin, Not a Virgin, and Cant Have Kids. This quote actually made me throw out the book. Funny since most people view this work as her least offensive work.
I also have a problem with the phrasing of this. I find the idea that someone could ‘take’ the virginity of the Goddess as something that borders on blasphemous. Can you use blasphemous for Wicca? Fuck it…I just did.
The Great Rite, the act when the God and the Goddess come together sexually to create the new life of the year, is a sacred thing for Wiccans. The God isn’t ‘taking’ anything. It’s a magical moment between Lord and Lady. So fuck of S.R.
“don’t listen to your parents, do whatever you want to - behind their backs if necessary. If your parents don’t understand you, that’s okay. Mama Silver does.” Silver Ravenwolf’s website.
Okay…stop. I know that a lot of my readers are teens. I know you want to jump right into Wicca and paganism and that parents can be remarkably small minded about what their kids learn and investigate. I know that this can be really frustrating and unfair. It sucks. I’m sorry. But encouraging a teen to lie to their parents is a tacky way to go about this.
How about encourage teens to be honest, to help people (parents are people btw) understand Wicca, and to stop making Wicca into this naughty, dirty, rebellious thing? It’s a spirituality that needs to be represented well.
She represents herself as a ‘patron of teen witches’ because she is the “Only one who writes for them”. -SRW website.
This is very much NOT true. The fact is it is illegal for anyone to talk to children about religion without the parents explicit approval. This includes Christianity by the way. So she is not the only one who cares about teen pagans. What Ravenwolf does is portray paganism as an act of rebellion rather than a spiritual journey that often begins during teen years.
For all my Teen readers with parents who will not accept their practice. I know what you are going through. I was there. I had books thrown out. I got called crazy. I got told it was ‘just a phase’. Best part about being an adult? I get to practice what I want and my family is fully aware.
Sorry…random tangent.
Okay, only kinda sorry. Moving on.
But you know what? Here are some articles that can state a lot of this for me:
Here, Here, and Here.
Those are three articles by trusted researchers who come from three very different pagan backgrounds who all explain, in their own way, why Silver Ravenwolf is toxic to the pagan community.
To put it very simply:
Her misinformation
Her misleading ‘facts’
Her wrong history
and more
As for other pagans that I feel are bad for the pagan community….not really. Plenty have made mistakes over the years…but we are a fairly young religion that is spreading very quickly. We have no single book that tells us what the ‘truth’ is. We are all looking for it by sifting and reading the work of others. We do not have a weekly interpreter telling us what to believe. We do not have a government made up of similar religious believers helping incorporate our belief system into their government. "
so yeh, don't like her
Kaneki wrote: "I have heard from many people that "much of what she writes is unethical, bigoted, a lie, or simply wrong. She’s the poster girl for “bad witchcraft 101 books”. A lot of people start out with her b..."Nice rant.
I get snarly when folk claim false authenticity, so I dig it comrade.
Hail Eris!
Old-Barbarossa wrote: "Kaneki wrote: "I have heard from many people that "much of what she writes is unethical, bigoted, a lie, or simply wrong. She’s the poster girl for “bad witchcraft 101 books”. A lot of people start..."haha yeh XD
I must add I've not read any Ravenwolf...nor am I wiccan or a witch.I've known a fair few, and have read Gardner and the Farrars...but I'm certainly not current with the "current".
Old-Barbarossa wrote: "I must add I've not read any Ravenwolf...nor am I wiccan or a witch.I've known a fair few, and have read Gardner and the Farrars...but I'm certainly not current with the "current"."
oddly enough before I even read all the stuff I quoted I bought one of her books (the big one in the pic) but like it was when I first started (last year)
Kaneki wrote: "parents are people btw" :D :D :D Good for us to remember.
I was lent one of her books when I first started out, I hated it after the first page! The one thing it did make me realise is that I am NOT wiccan I study Witchcraft and I am a Kitchen/House Witch and I am my own Witch not a Clone.
I will take any recommendations or chat you guys have, My name is Paul, I am 36 and I live in Chicago.