Debate discussion

Well that made my head hurt :D not sure I understood all of it, but I'll give it a go.

What does that do to the theory that parallel universes or whatever are created for each different action you could take?

That was twisted.

Hi. I didn't get any of that.

finally.

great job koe.

and i agree :)

Huh?

huh?

why did you say huh?

I said 'huh' becuz I hav no idea what's going on around here

"This I think is an irrefutable argument that in any universe where you have omniscience you cannot also have Free Will. The ability to know with inerrant accuracy the future precludes the ability to choose because all apparent choices have in fact already been made."

I don't want to argue with you - you sound too smart for me - but just because you know something, doesn't mean you control it.
So (assuming God exists) just because he knows all, that doesn't mean he controls it...we're still making the decisions, he just knows what they will be...

lol oh ok

So if I know someone so well that I know what they'll say to a comment,...is that the same thing on a smaller scale? I mean, I didn't make the choice for the person, or force them to say it. They had free will, and said what I knew they would.

Ah that seems jumbled. I'd fix it, but I'm off to work. Bye all!

So if I know someone so well that I know what they'll say to a comment,...is that the same thing on a smaller scale? I mean, I didn't make the choice for the person, or force them to say it. They had free will, and said what I knew they would.


You don't actually know what that person is going to say. You can make an educated guess based on experience. You are speculating. But this isn't the type of knowledge you believe God has; Christians believe that God actually knows - not speculates - what is going to happen.

In your example, your friend could say something else, in which case your "knowledge" could be wrong. But God, by definition, cannot be wrong, so this option - the option of your friend saying something else - is not possible.

Think of it this way: If God has perfect knowledge, then he knows what will happen. Which means that what will happen (i.e. what you will do) is already set. If what you will do is already set, then you have no choice but to do that; you have only the illusion of choice. In order for you to have a choice, God can't know what you're going to do, either because he's wrong or because he simply doesn't know.

Thank you for this thread. X)) Now we have a handy link for people who insist on free will.

Okay look at this way. God is outside of time. He sees what we have already done and what we will do. Does that mean that along the way He made us make those choices? No, but I believe He can come in at any point in time and change an event if we do His will. Another thing is that we have free will but God is God, He can do anything He wants, but He listens to people who search after His heart. A great example of this is Moses, God was going to destroy Israel, but Moses asked God to spare them and He did. God knows what will happen that doesn't mean that it's set in stone, we can alter things through Him.

It's getting more and more convoluted and weird to try to make a square God fit in a round universe. Occham's Razor. Look it up.

Oh Lauren there is really no comprehension of God, if there was then life would be very boring, just as it is for many Americans. And He would not be worthy of any praise. But I love God in how He never moves through the place where people are in leisure, but through the ones who will actually do something with His word. I love the heart of Christians in China and I wish we had that over here. Maybe it will be though(be careful what you wish for) because China has no tolerance for Christians and if America keeps going the way it does then it will become the same here. Jesus did not lie when He said we would be persecuted for His name.

You are so idiotic man.

=) thanks Davis your awesome too

You really think Christians are persecuted in a nation where if a person isn't Christian, they can't ever hope to run for public office?

One POSSIBLY atheist Senator. ONE. When 15% of the American population is non-theist.

Um they are killed there. Quit quoting media that is shoved down your throat and actually search for the truth. I have talked to people that have been there, don't pretend to know something when you haven't a clue. You think the Chinese government will just come out saying they kill Christians? I have heard many testimonies of Christians actually getting results and suffering for their faith. I have heard an eye witness account of the power of God shutting down a sex-trafficked brothel. I've seen healing. So please tell me why do I have no proof of God?

I'm not talking about China dickhead, I'm talking about the United States. You have no proof of God, because you can't prove that either of things were the CHRISTIAN GOD working.

Yes I can. If your cry out to Jesus or God, your crying out to Yahweh. When you are quoting your scripture and the Bible and something happens like healing, I'm pretty sure that it's the Christian God.

That isn't definitive proof, whatsoever.

Oh and I misread sorry. No but eventually it's not gonna be that way. oh and the population is about 50-50 on the Christian thing. There are many atheists.

"If your cry out to Jesus or God, your crying out to Yahweh. When you are quoting your scripture and the Bible and something happens like healing, I'm pretty sure that it's the Christian God."

The first parts is simply word usage, proving nothing, as any other word could easily be used with the same effect. The second part has never been proved definitively.

D.C. wrote: "Oh and I misread sorry. No but eventually it's not gonna be that way. oh and the population is about 50-50 on the Christian thing. There are many atheists. "

That is 100 percent, intentionally lying. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Okay Davis, whatever you want to believe. I call on Jesus and He answers, who else could it be?

D.C. wrote: "Okay Davis, whatever you want to believe. I call on Jesus and He answers, who else could it be? "

I'm really not even going to get into that, because your so blinded, there is no way you'll see anything logical (This coming from a non-atheist).

What I meant about lying was saying that there are anywhere near the amount of Atheists as there are of Christians.

Oops your right. I just checked the statistic. I thought it was bigger. Well you really are a minority. Why is the media so prevalent then with atheistic values? Oh wait I remember the US definition of what a Christian is considered. A person who believes that Jesus lived and that He was a good person or divine prophet. Thats it. The number of people who believe in His resurrection is small.

Your lying again. Bad habit.

What I am saying Koe is that God is outside of existence, He sees the past, present, and future at the same time. It has all already happened. So He knows everything because He has seen it, it has already unfolded before His eyes. Look at it another way, say you lived the whole of existence and saw everything that would happen and afterwards you were allowed to go back and change things. But you were only allowed to change things if the people inside of time did what you told them to. So God had already seen that we were on a path that would separate us from Him for all eternity, so He sent His son in the form of man to change all of that. Yes we have free will and God knows all that will happen, because it has already happened. It's a weird concept

How is that a lie, I read a study on how many people believe in the resurrection, there were not to many.

So he knows about all the bad shit that has happened, and continues to allow it to happen?

And why pray if God already knows the outcome? And God knows everything that will happen, why even 'test' us on Earth? Couldn't he just relegate us to heaven and hell based on what he already knows?

Or Christians who did not live Christian life styles. Of a survey of over 1,000 people, only 7% were actual go to Church, read the Bible Christians.

D.C. wrote: "Or Christians who did not live Christian life styles. Of a survey of over 1,000 people, only 7% were actual go to Church, read the Bible Christians. "

I totally, 100% disbelieve that study.

Again thats where we come in, we still have the choice to change things just as God is ever crying for His creation. He may know we won't listen but He still tries, giving us the free choice.

I thought he knows everything that is ever going to happen?

Okay you can if you want I 100% disbelieve in macroevolution. So we 100% disbelieve in many things =)

D.C. wrote: "Okay you can if you want I 100% disbelieve in macroevolution. So we 100% disbelieve in many things =)"

Well that isn't so much your fault as some vague mental disorder you have.

Yes and I'd take it gladly. Somehow I can see what you can't and hear what cannot be heard by you. It's a wonderful disorder =). Might as well call me crazy haha

But you already do that don't you?

Well, I don't really see what else I can call you. You think you hear voices, you see divine influence in totally inappropriate ways, etc. If anything, I'd say your probably borderline schizophrenic, but that will be up for the counselor your 4th ex-wife recommends to decide.

Yes well I think your fun to Davis. I pray for all of you and God may answer that prayer someday. Oh and I'm not getting married until I find a girl who is just like me, trouble is there are just so many to choose from =D

Yeah, marrying a girl just like you, that's not solipsistic or narcissistic in the slightest.

Your sick, get professional help dude. Your a veritable Freudian wet-dream.

And why would you pray for me if God knows if I'm going to convert or not?

Lol I think Freud is hilarious honestly. Everything had to do with sex with him. Talk about being obsessed.

Freud, in all his cocaine-induced psychosis had a greater net positive impact on society than Christianity.

Well histories not set in stone for me, neither for you. At the end of time when its all said and done I will be responsible for my actions as well as you. If I had even the slightest chance for your salvation I would take it gladly. Because your my friend and I'm not gonna give up. You may not look to me as a friend but that really doesn't matter to me.