Classics Without All the Class discussion

Welcome, Ladies and Gentlemen, to the discussion of the Sword in the Stone! Since it is the beginning of the month, I'm guessing a lot of people are just getting started. How are you guys picking up the book? Audible has a great version of the entire series, which I have purchased myself, and there are many copies of it floating around the world.

Reading it in ebook format, as my childhood copy appears to have evanesced. I’m loving the lyrical bits that pop in from time to time! From chapter 3, the Wart falling asleep in the woods:
“At first he only dipped below the surface of sleep, and skimmed along like a salmon in shallow water, so close to the surface he fancied himself in air. He thought himself awake when he was already asleep. He saw the stars above his face, whirling on their silent and sleepless axis, and the leaves of the trees rustling against them, and he heard small changes in the grass. These little noises of footsteps and soft-fringed wing-beats and stealthy bellies drawn over the grass blades or rattling against the bracken at first frightened or interested him, so that he moved to see what they were (but never saw), then soothed him, so that he no longer cared to see what they were but trusted them to be themselves, and finally left him altogether as he swam down deeper and deeper, nuzzling into the scented turf, into the warm ground, into the unending waters under the earth.”

I think I am going to do the audible version

I loved that quote, Abigail, and was reading that chapter last night. I am now totally drawn in to the magic in this book including those lyrical descriptions and the humor.
I found a tattered copy in our local library...and picked up a wonderful little book of Mary Oliver's recent poetry called Blue Horses..at the same time.

I've realized I've read this book on my teen years.

I will re-read it again.

Cheers

I obtained a paperback copy that was on the library (nearest me) shelf; I found the print quality so marginally acceptable I requested a hardback copy from another branch- it is nearly new and so much nicer. I'm at 40% now. I'm pushing myself to finish the rather long "The Name of the Rose", so told myself I can only be half as far through "The Sword..." as I am through that (currently 75%). That means about 45 min of "The Name..." then 10 min of "The Sword.." per day (: Funny that I'm reading 2 books at once set in middle-ages Europe, not deliberate.

I'm a little over half way now. Reading the descriptions of strange creatures that Arthur does battle with, I wonder if Tolkein didn't draw some from this book for Lord of the Rings. Also, Merlyn had a similar relationship to Wart (Arthur) that Tolkein's Gandalf had to Bilbo and Frodo, a fatherly leader-teacher role.

George wrote: "I'm a little over half way now. Reading the descriptions of strange creatures that Arthur does battle with, I wonder if Tolkein didn't draw some from this book for Lord of the Rings. Also, Merlyn h..."

Were Tolkein and White friends? I had no idea.

I've realized thatThe Hobbit is older than I thought. It was published in 1937 and The Sword... was published THE FOLLOWING year, 1938 (The Lord of the Rings trilogy was published in the mid-50s). Coincidence?

I’m not sure the Tolkien and White had to know each other in order for them to plow the same field. It was a big thing in England in the first half of the twentieth century to use mythology—especially classical and Celtic—as a basis for fiction, either directly (as in The Sword in the Stone) or indirectly (as in Ulysses, for starters). Tolkien had his Inklings circle of friends at Oxford (Charles Williams, C. S. Lewis, etc.), and White was not part of that, being something of a wild man of the woods. The same cultural focus brought us Robert Graves’s work.

Abigail wrote: "I’m not sure the Tolkien and White had to know each other in order for them to plow the same field. It was a big thing in England in the first half of the twentieth century to use mythology—especia..."

I was just confused by the particular wording. As George was unaware of the timeline, and in order for Tolkein to draw any influence from a book that was unpublished he and White would have had to discussed it privately before it was actually put out to the public. Obviously there are many instances of writers of the same period using similar themes that are in vogue at that period in time.

Anybody get to the chapter about the ants? Just wondering if there was a message in that chapter or was it just about ants and how they work.

I think it is a metaphor for totalitarian type governments. Wait until you get to the chapter with Wart's becoming one with the Geese. It is all part of Wart's education - Merlin style.

Don't we all wish Merlin was our teacher growing up though?

Shanea wrote: "Don't we all wish Merlin was our teacher growing up though?"
Yes, and I mentioned the similarity to The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings series- how about the similarity to the Harry Potter novels? Coming of age stories involving fantasy/magic (you might also compare to Lewis's "The Lion, The Witch..." and I'm sure there are many other similar style books). Unlike the H Potter books, Wart/Art doesn't learn to do magic but he is involved strongly in it's use and learns a lot of things because of his involvement in the spells, so they share this didactic element. I'm not sure I would have wanted to be put in these spells though- Art came close to being killed several times because of them!

The part where Wart became part of the geese was interesting. I loved the old admiral goose that rounded up the chickens and put them in the hen house. Merlin does have a great style of teaching. I don't know if I would want to learn by being turned into an animal. The quote about learning was the best part of the book. Learn about the world and what wags it. I finished The Sword and the Stone. Will probably continue with the 2nd story.

George wrote: "Shanea wrote: "Don't we all wish Merlin was our teacher growing up though?"
Yes, and I mentioned the similarity to The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings series- how about the similarity to the Harry..."
I'd say it's slightly dissimilar to most of your examples actually. Obviously there is the similarity of fantastical elements, and the coming of age transition. However, Merlin uses magic to instruct Wart on the world that he already lives in in a literally magical way, whereas in the Potterverse and Narnia the characters experience growth by entering an entirely new world with different laws of nature, mores, etc.

Cindy wrote: "The part where Wart became part of the geese was interesting. I loved the old admiral goose that rounded up the chickens and put them in the hen house. Merlin does have a great style of teaching. I..."
Congratulations on completing it.
I hope you enjoy it, though some parts are harder to get through than others.

Is there more than one version? I am doing an "unabridged" audiobook (narrated by Neville Jason) and there was no part with ants or geese! There was a part with a snake that didn't appear in the Sparknotes summaries I am reading. Also a part with "time lapse" trees and then rocks when he's with Archimedes was present in my audiobook that wasn't in the Sparknotes summary. Did anybody get this version?

Hi, Daniel, yes, there are two versions. The original standalone publication was I think the shorter one; in later years, he included The Sword in the Stone as part I of The Once and Future King and expanded it then, as far as I recall. So maybe that’s why some people are getting ants and geese and you are not. The ants were a little heavy-handed for me, but I loved the part with the geese.

Thank you for clarifying! I'm up to where he gets turned into a badger and there have been no geese or ants in my book. This is supposed to be his last time he gets into something. I was getting worried that I had completely blanked out on some parts.

Abagail's got it.
Ants and Geese were part of the sections cut by the publishing house, and originally in the Book of Merlyn, rounding out the series, but are now occasionally moved back into their original intended spots.

I was nearly at the end of The Sword in the Stone and thinking "where's the geese- and ants- that have been mentioned?" Thanks for your explanation Abigail. My edition is published in 1993 from Philomel Books, with nice illustration pages by D Nolan.
So I have finished and found it overall quite charming, in a word, with enough humor and occasional substance to satisfy a reader of mostly "serious" books like myself. I did think the badger talking of "munching up" baby rabbits would be a bit much for younger readers or those being read to, though. I think I may read more in The Once and Future King, though not right away. I don't know if I had a favorite part- did other readers?

Abigail wrote: "yes, there are two versions..."
Thanks for that info. And I'm glad to see I wasn't the only one in a state of confusion :)

George wrote: "I was nearly at the end of The Sword in the Stone and thinking "where's the geese- and ants- that have been mentioned?" Thanks for your explanation Abigail. My edition is published in 1993 from Phi..."

Hi George, I'm moving your post to a new discussion topic :) Hope you don;t mind, if you do PM please.

I am sorry for all of you who did not have the ants and geese segments in your version. It was the part of this whole book I recalled most clearly from reading it 35 or so years ago, and I really loved them both -the ants and geese stories need each other as a balance for Arthur's education. I think at that time a story about being a goose and flying with them was even more poignant then.. before we all saw films like Winged Migration and others where they really let you feel like you are up there flying with them.

No ants and geese in my version either. Normally I don't read a lot of fantasy books (except for the Harry Potter series I usually don't enjoy them), but The Sword in the Stone surprised me, I liked it a lot. Maybe because it is such a classic and it's nice to finally read the original story after all the Disney versions. Some day I will try to read the whole series.

I didn't realize there were two versions. I had the one with the ants and geese, then later when those same sections were also in Book of Merlin, I found them rather boring, since I'd already read them. The ants were certainly very heavy-handed, as far as White's morality tale, but it was still interesting.

I must confess that when I first saw that our monthly read was THE SWORD IN THE STONE, I was not overly excited. Once I got started reading it, I loved it. White's work was so imaginative and creative. The various facets of nature came together wonderfully at the conclusion. I never thought that those forces would have joined together to become the force that enabled Wart to withdraw the sword from the stone. A fun read. I rated it five stars!

Tim wrote: "I must confess that when I first saw that our monthly read was THE SWORD IN THE STONE, I was not overly excited. Once I got started reading it, I loved it. White's work was so imaginative and creat..."

I'm so glad you enjoyed it. It is the best when you read a book just as part of a challenge or because you told someone you would and end up liking it.

Finished it today (a little late). This was a reread from high school for me. I remember how much I loved it then because it was funny and interesting. Now I can read it with a more critical eye and notice how creative White was as a whole. I shall be continuing with the rest of the series (book?) on my own. :)

Lorisa wrote: "Finished it today (a little late). This was a reread from high school for me. I remember how much I loved it then because it was funny and interesting. Now I can read it with a more critical eye an..."
Good job on finishing nonetheless! There are some people reading the series here as well, so feel free to chip in to the conversation.