Catholic Thought discussion

In the third mansion, Teresa once again stresses the importance of humility, knowing our limitations, and to practice the virtues. She also recommends that we find a spiritual advisor.

Here are some characteristics of those dwelling in this mansion:

1. Reluctance to offend god

2. Avoidance of petty imperfections

3. Using time wisely

4. Meditate for long hours

5. Practicing acts of compassions toward neighbors

6. Being balanced in speech and appearance

I have a busy week ahead of me, so my post has been brief. Hopefully, I'll find some time to post more later. I am enjoying everyone's comments about this book.

I keep praying that God will help me find a spiritual director because I think she is so right with the importance of a spiritual adviser.

"If we act thus, this state is a most excellent one, but otherwise we shall spend our whole lives in it and suffer a thousand troubles and miseries. Without complete self-renunciation, the state is very arduous and oppressive, because, as we go along, we are laboring under the burden of our miserable nature."

Bishop Robert Barron, fabulous teacher that he is, helps me immensely in unlocking a passage like this. He talks of detachment (Catholicism series; beatitudes), a word I can work with much better than ‘self-renunciation.’ Self-renunciation is a word that implies that I give up things that are essential to my being as a corporeal and spiritual being, there is something not quite right about it. However, I can envision, even am to a certain extent, detachment from money, power, honor, and wealth – the main sources of our sinfulness - and still function, even thrive, as the very being that I am.

Then the second part of the sentence makes perfect sense. As long as we cling to our sins we’ll never enjoy the freedom from being detached from them.

Irene wrote: "I keep praying that God will help me find a spiritual director because I think she is so right with the importance of a spiritual adviser."

Fr. Mike Schmitz addressed this in one of his videos and suggests helpful resources.
http://ascensionpresents.com/video/no...

Kerstin, I have a REALLY old computer. When I went to your link, my computer shuttered and did an automatic reboot. So, I could not view his recommendations. But, thanks for trying.

Irene,
I copied down the recommendations from Fr Schmitz, as I plan to check them out...thanks for the resource Kerstin!

1. Oremus: A Guide to Catholic Prayer - Ascension Press (video, I think)

2. Time for God - Jacques Philippe

3. Deep Conversion Deep Prayer - Fr. Thomas DuBay, S.M. - from The Fire Within

4. The Discernment of Spirits - Dr. Timothy Gallagher

5. Introduction to the Devout Life - St. Francis de Sales


ETA: I realized 2, 3, and 5 are in my recommendations since I'm reading Interior Castle...

I'm sure 4 is here too...just haven't gotten that far...

Irene wrote: "Kerstin, I have a REALLY old computer. When I went to your link, my computer shuttered and did an automatic reboot. So, I could not view his recommendations. But, thanks for trying."

yea... in this little comment field the link got cut off!

You'll find it on the Ascension Press website. Find Fr. Mike Schmitz and scroll for the video "No Spiritual Director?"

www.ascensionpresents.com/

I hope it works this time :)

Susie wrote: "Irene,
I copied down the recommendations from Fr Schmitz, as I plan to check them out...thanks for the resource Kerstin!

1. Oremus: A Guide to Catholic Prayer - Ascension Press (video, I think)

2..."

You're welcome! :)

Thanks for typing out those resources. Kerstin, I am too much of a coward to try again. I am afraid the next time my ancient computer won't revive.

I have done a good bit of spiritual reading which does help. But, I think there is a benefit in having a live person listen to what I say and call me to accountibility. It is too easy for self deception, to fool myself that my preferences and excuses are God's voice.

Irene wrote: "Thanks for typing out those resources. Kerstin, I am too much of a coward to try again. I am afraid the next time my ancient computer won't revive.

I have done a good bit of spiritual reading whic..."

No question about it. Having a trusted spiritual advisor is the ideal situation.

Along the line of needing a trusted spiritual adviser, this paragraph from the first chapter of the third mansion suggests that it would be helpful and that it might not:

"Still I must give you one warning: be not too confident because you are nuns and the daughters of such a Mother. David was very holy, yet you know what Solomon became. Therefore do not rely on your enclosure, on your penitential life, nor on your continual exercise of prayer and constant communion with God, nor trust in having left the world or in the idea that you hold its ways in horror. All this is good, but is not enough, as I have already said, to remove all fear; therefore meditate on this text and often recall it: 'Blessed is the man that feareth the Lord.' "

You could look at that paragraph and conclude you can't do it on your own, Even Solomon failed. But it also warns that just because you have Theresa of Avila as a spiritual mother, it doesn't mean that you will progress. I've never had a spiritual director, and it would have to be someone I really felt comfortable with if I were to take one on, but I don't know how much it helps. I guess it can't hurt.

I think that when I first read this book decades ago, I would have said I was in this third mansion. But, I have slipped into the second as I have aged. Makes my heart sad. I grew weary without seeing progress and wandering so long in driness

Manny wrote: "Along the line of needing a trusted spiritual adviser, this paragraph from the first chapter of the third mansion suggests that it would be helpful and that it might not:



That’s a difficult point in our age for non-ordained believers like most of us. I am not sure if even a confessor would be a good candidate. Merton insists in “New Seeds of Contemplation” (1961) that contemplation is difficult for solitary men. “The most dangerous man is the contemplative who is guided by nobody.” (p. 194) His advice clearly applies to religious in orders and with superiors but Merton gives no guidance that a layperson can easily apply when he insists that we need a spiritual mentor.

Merton is probably right Galicius. A spiritual adviser would in theory be helpful. I guess it can't hurt. I was just pointing out what St Theresa said in the chapter.

I do appreciate Susan Margaret's summary of the Third Mansion and the conversation about spiritual directors. I have, for years, heard about finding a spiritual director but never pursued the idea. Even though Therese recognized that having a spiritual director may not be profitable, I think it is a opportunity I should be more willing to pursue. If we find a truly good person as a director I don't think they would lead us down the wrong path. Just my thoughts.

On a different note...
I found Chapter 1 of the Third Mansion both easy to follow and practical. Looking back I highlighted a few passages for future references. On the other hand I found Chapter 2 to be more difficult. Perhaps, because I haven't reached this level I found it difficult to relate to Therese's instruction.

What were the highlights of the second chapter of this mansion for you?

I have read of Teresa's life and she had some spiritual directors who were uncomfortable with her mystical experiences and tried to have her stop them. This not only caused her much self-doubt and distress, but she believed afterward, injured her spiritual progress. That is why she is cautious about spiritual directors. She says elsewhere that it is important to have a well-trained, learned person in that role, not just a good, well-meaning, holy person you like.

Andy wrote: "What were the highlights of the second chapter of this mansion for you?
"
St. Teresa resorts to prayer in the Second Mansion in order not to fall back. The temptations are stronger here yet. But “further on, the soul is pleased with all that comes, because it desires nothing but what God will.” Do not be discouraged by occasional falls and relapses but persevere in prayer.

Irene wrote: "I have read of Teresa's life and she had some spiritual directors who were uncomfortable with her mystical experiences and tried to have her stop them. This not only caused her much self-doubt and ..."

Thank you Irene for this interesting information.

After reading a few articles on the internet about how to find a spiritual director, I came up with the following list:

1. Pray for guidance in seeking a director
2. Ask your parish priest for recommendations
3. Call your Diocesan office and ask if they have a list of trained spiritual directors
4. Call a local retreat house and ask for recommendations
5. Ask friends
6. There is a website called Spiritual Directors International (sdiworld.org). You can locate a director by entering your zip code. (A word of warning, not all of the directors listed are catholic)

Although I have never had a spiritual director, I would definitely seek out a director who has been trained.

Susan Margaret wrote: "After reading a few articles on the internet about how to find a spiritual director, I came up with the following list:

1. Pray for guidance in seeking a director
2. Ask your parish priest for rec..."

Thank you Susan Margaret. You are doing a great job moderating this reading.

Galicius wrote: "Thank..."

Thank you Galicius!!

In reply to Andy above on a highlight in the second chapter, I found this somewhere in the middle to be significant:

“Believe me, the question is not whether we wear the religious habit or not, but whether we practise the virtues and submit our will in all things to the will of God. The object of our life must be to do what He requires of us: let us not ask that our will may be done, but His. If we have not yet attained to this, let us be humble, as I said above. Humility is the ointment for our wounds; if we have it, although perhaps He may defer His coming for a time, God, Who is our Physician, will come and heal us.”

Humility and submission to the will of God in all things—which is the same thing—is how one makes it to the third mansion.

Susan Margaret, thanks for that list. I have done most of those things and am aware of the directors in my area, it is just that those who are close enough to be a work around for my inability to drive are not good matches for me and those who might be good matches are too far for me to work around the transportation issue. So, I keep praying.

Manny, yes, humble submission to the will of God. And, that is where a spiritual director becomes so helpful. A good director can help me to distinguish between my will and God's will, between my inner voice and the voice of the Spirit.

You're right Susan. One day I'll have to search one out for me.

Irene, l'll add you to my prayers asking that you may find a spiritual director.

Thank you

Andy wrote: "What were the highlights of the second chapter of this mansion for you? "

What stood out for me in the second chapter is the following quote:

"It's a matter of practicing the virtues, of surrendering to God in everything..."

I think I will do some reading about the virtues and go out and buy a book. If I focus more on the virtues rather than my sins, then I won't have to worry so much about sinning.

Susan Margaret wrote: "Andy wrote: "What were the highlights of the second chapter of this mansion for you? "

What stood out for me in the second chapter is the following quote:

"It's a matter of practicing the virtues..."

I have Romano Guardini's book Learning the Virtues: That Lead You to God in my TBR pile... it would make for a great group read! :)

Kerstin wrote: "I have Romano Guardini's book Learning the Virtues: That Lead You to God in my TBR pile... it would make for a great group read! :)
.."
Ohhhhh.. I like that idea!!!! When we get ready to post the book nominations for mid March, dont forget to suggest this book.

Susan Margaret wrote: "It's a matter of practicing the virtues..."

I have Romano Guardini's book Learning the Virtues: That Lead You to God in my TBR pile... it would make for a great group read! :)

I think I said in one of my earlier comments that St. Theresa seems to concentrate more on focusing on how to be good rather than eradicating one's sins, though I'm not saying she thinks it's OK to sin. But what I take from this book is that to grow spiritually is to train oneself through prayer to do God's will.

I looked inside that Guardini book at Amazon and it looks like a winner. I'll put it in my cart for a future purchase.

I added the Learning the Virtues book to our group bookshelf.