The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

(Sorry for the delay...busy correcting papers.)

A distressing end to the five chapters.

But before the end...

One, Fledgeby is scheming after he met with Riah. Who is he going to go after and how?

Two, in the chapter with Jenny Wren and Riah, I was a bit confused. What did Jenny Wren mean when she said she would pick out a high society woman, "cut her out and basted her." Does she see what they look like, make a doll in their image, and then try to sell the doll to the women? That's what it sounded like to me, but I could be wrong.

Three, Jenny and Riah are on their way to Miss Abbey Potterson's establishment to show her the document that Lizzie's father is innocent. What happens when they are there?

Four, a statement rather than a question. I felt bad for Pleasant Riderhood....she really thought her father might change and people's opinions of him change as well.

Five, Bella's talk with her father is illuminating in many aspects. What are her four secrets?

Six, now, for the sad part of the five chapters: Mr. Boffin is changing. How? Do you think that the changes in Mr. Boffin will make John Rokesmith change his mind about keeping John Harmon dead? Do you think that the changes in Mr. Boffin will make Bella rethink her attitude towards money? Do you think that Bella will become a victim of the Lammle's?

I'm not sure that Jenny sells dolls to the women, but she uses their fashions for the dolls' clothes that she sells. I thought maybe she gets a general idea, which she cuts out and sews up (basting is quick sewing) and then she comes back for more detail. She wouldn't have money to buy magazines showing fashions.

Mr. Boffin's transformation is sad, more so than Mr Dorritt, who was always full of himself, even when poor. Boffin had been generous, grateful and happy. But now he is suspicious and coldhearted.

I hope we haven't lost everyone!

No! :-) I will post later, have currently busy weeks and am still fighting this cold which makes me pretty tired.

Lynnm wrote: Two, in the chapter with Jenny Wren and Riah, I was a bit confused. What did Jenny Wren mean when she said she would pick out a high society woman, "cut her out and basted her." Does she see what they look like, make a doll in their image, and then try to sell the doll to the women? That's what it sounded like to me, but I could be wrong...."

I also had the feeling that Jenny went to see fashionable ladies in order to come up with ideas and copy their dresses for the dolls. But that was quite confusing to me, too, esp. as I had already had one of the pictures at an earlier page showing her watching young women getting out of coaches.

I'm still reading along and have been enjoying it so much that I've forged ahead and am somewhat concerned about introducing spoilers.

I continue to find the scenes with Bella's family highly entertaining, especially her mother with her gloom and stateliness and pretended deference to her husband. The scene of their anniversary party is particularly amusing, when Lavvy asks her to smile and

“And she did smile; manifestly freezing the blood of Mr George Sampson by so doing. For that young gentleman, catching her smiling eye, was so very much appalled by its expression as to cast about in his thoughts concerning what he had done to bring it down upon himself.”

Bella continues to improve, beginning to see the virtue of something other than money, just as Mr Boffin falls increasingly under its spell. I do think that. Bella will be too clever to fall prey to the Lammle's, and just hope her better nature will continue to assert itself.

Sorry - I got a Skype call in the middle of my posting... So I only got the first comment in.

The plot of the Lammles seems to have been averted as Mr Lammle received a letter by Podsnap that their relation is not longer wanted for. So Georgiana should be safe now, shouldn't she?


In chapter 1 I was mostly stricken by the philosophical question whether it is better to have enjoyed and lost something than not having known it at all, as the sorrow of losing it is bigger than the enjoyment of having had it for a little while. What do you think about this?

I am not sure what Dickens wants with Mr. Riah, who is a very kind and warm-hearted person as it seems. There was a discussion whether he might have wanted to redeem himself compared to the character of Fagin, but then Mr. Riah seems to be in the Jewish stereotype business of a money-lender. So you could still contemplate about his attitude towards Jewism.
It seems that Fledgeby is now also interested in Lizzie and her whereabouts, but Mr. Riah really wants to keep her away from all the "male dangers" around her.


One thing I did not quite understand was how Mr. Riah and Jenny got into the possession of Riderhood's statement about Gaffer. John had been looking how to hand the note to Lizzie, but I think we did not get to know how he found them out. However, my reading concentration during the last weeks was not the best due to my persistent cold/ sinus infection that is somehow numbing my mind. So I might have just missed it.

The scene with Riderhood as the victim of a severe accident is funny and eye-opening as well. As he struggles between life and death everyone who did not like him seemed to be really concerned. But the moments it is clear that he survives everyone turns from him again. I think poor Pleasant thought he might change due to the accident and his near-death experience, but he does not really, does he?

I also liked the scenes of the Wilfers' anniversary with Bella cooking (or shall we say trying to cook). Her mother is just terrible, but very comical for the reader.

Then Bella confides her 4 secrets in her father:
1. that she refused John Rokesmith's proposal
2. that Mortimer Lightwood has an interest in her
3. that she will be well provided for by the Boffins when she gets married
4. that Mr. Boffin's character is changing due to his fortune

The latter also seems to be a mirror for Bella: Might she change that way as well when having money? She had admitted previously that she is so mercenary and materialistic and focused on money...
This also leads to the philosophical question whether Mr. Boffin/ one would be happier without all this fortune as it changes you. Money does not make you happy and there are things that money cannot buy....

At least Mr Boffin becomes more and more an Ebenzer Scrooge (who was also in the money-lending business and maybe is the opposite of Mr Riah).

There are 2 unhappy anniversaries so far, the Lammles and the Wilfers. Not a very encouraging view of marriage.

Robin wrote: "There are 2 unhappy anniversaries so far, the Lammles and the Wilfers. Not a very encouraging view of marriage."

Dickens seems to believe in love, but marriage...not so much. :-)

Frances wrote: "I continue to find the scenes with Bella's family highly entertaining, especially her mother with her gloom and stateliness and pretended deference to her husband. The scene of their anniversary pa..."

As others have said, her mother in some ways reminds me of Mrs. Bennet in Pride and Prejudice. Her life is such a trial. Although she is much more gloomy than Mrs. Bennet.

And I hope that Bella is too smart to get sucked into the Lammle's schemes.

Robin wrote: "I'm not sure that Jenny sells dolls to the women, but she uses their fashions for the dolls' clothes that she sells. I thought maybe she gets a general idea, which she cuts out and sews up (basting..."

Thanks for the explanation, Robin. As Hedi said, it is confusing.

At points, it almost seems as if she speaks to the women, but that might not be the case.

Hedi - I'm going to have to go back and read Chapter 1 - I missed the philosophical question.

Off the top of my head, if something turns out bad, even if it causes more suffering than enjoyment for myself, I would rather to have tried it than not try it.

As Tennyson said, it is better to have loved and lost, then never to have loved at all....

Just catching up. I wonder if Bella is at some sort of crossroads. She certainly seems more attuned to the emotions of others and more self-aware. Mr. Boffin's transformation seems quite abrupt. As Robin pointed out, we saw that Mr. Dorrit's was self-absorbed for richer or poorer, but I don't think there was any similar indication for Noddy. It is definitely distressing and gives Bella even more to consider. Does it also give Rokesmith the opportunity to show his true worth?

Fledgeby gets creepier and creepier in my eyes as the story progresses. I am suspicious of his interest in the whereabouts of Lizzie Hexam. Who would pay for this information?

I think that Riah has admitted to coming between Lizzie and Eugene. He is probably correct in his belief that at this stage their attraction could only end badly for her at this stage. But I really want to see Eugene rise to what seems to be the best in his character. Lizzie deserves a knight and he's got the most potential so far.