Christian Theological/Philosophical Book Club discussion

I'm always curious why people come to a group like this.

Some to argue, some to explore, some to prove they are right and everyone else is wrong. Some to maybe make friends, some to hate on Christianity. All are mostly welcome.

Of our 700 members - most say nothing and seldom get involved. Makes me wonder what they are waiting for??? Maybe some can share that here.

Why am I here:

To poke and prod and see what people are made of. By that I will also have myself challenged slightly.

I have spent years chatting with Atheists, Muslims, Mormons, Wiccans, New Age Spiritists... and a few Buddhists (never really chatted with a serious Hindu scholar -= someday).
It isn't so much that I trust their scholarship in their own arena - I want their questions regarding Christianity.

And if I make a few friends along the way - that's wonderful. I fully expect to make endless enemies (that's a given, nobody likes their sacred cows to be cooked on a Biblical B.B.Q).

But the best way to fully explore a philosophical truth: is to have it defended and attacked. You must join a side to even be in the game. If a team loses - find a better team. But be honest with your biases (this is where most people fail).

Show me something better than Biblical Christianity - and I'll take it. I'm still looking: 35 years later. The Bible is better than ever!

Rod - I suppose I visited this site to see what the young thought about the state of current religion. So much has changed since my long forgotten youth that I felt "out of touch" and wanted a glimpse into their perceptions (I though they all centered on music). To my amazement, the young on this board are quite insightful and it's the old hippie hangers-on who can't get a grip on God's Truth. I guess a lifetime of turning on and tuning out left them more vegetable than human. It's amazing how long people will cling to notions that simply DON' work. If a lifetime isn't enough, Satan will provide longer for them to pursue their misconceptions.

Because I am fascinated by how others approach God (I already know how I do).

Thanks guys. I love knowing where people are coming from.

I joined mostly for the book discussions. I wanted to share my enjoyment of apologetic material with others. I also enjoy reading the discussions, even if I am not actively participating in every conversation.

I am here to get involved with discussions as the Lord leads. I love God and His Word.

1 Timothy 4:16 - " Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee."

Robert, do you really want to discuss? OR just be RIGHT? Or discuss how right you are?

I ask myself this constantly. Especially since nobody here EVER changes their thinking about anything (generally). I dare you to grow in a certain area. find something you don't know, or create a gray area. I'm learning that the Bible is BETTER and messier than I ever imagined. (just as truthful though).

I sure hope the Lord is leading. Glad you're here buddy.

Rod wrote: "Robert, do you really want to discuss? OR just be RIGHT? Or discuss how right you are?

I ask myself this constantly. Especially since nobody here EVER changes their thinking about anything (genera..."

One of the areas that I don't "know" for sure is eschatology.

For me, I don't believe in the Post-Modern notion that there is no absolute truth, or that there is absolute truth, but we can never be sure we have it... and we have to settle for well that is just your interpretation.

I believe the Bible is absolute truth... I believe that the Holy Spirit will lead us into ALL truth... I believe that ONLY the Bible is valid for changing my doctrine.

Sadly, far too often, people want me to allow their opinions to change my doctrine... that is NOT happening!

Well said,
Yes "Eschatology" is always a fun mess.

I like mucking about in it - with a sense of humor of course. Many folks just toss the whole thing in the garbage... but there's truth hidden in there. And Jesus says this is essential, and a Blessing.

YES, we are blessed with absolute truth. Although i'm learning the Bible is sneaker than I assumed. Jesus often confused people he chatted with. And prophecies were often ambiguous and a hidden message to the spiritually blind.

I'm seldom interested in people's opinions and answers: I want their QUESTIONS. Most haven't asked any good ones.

Rod wrote: "Well said,
Yes "Eschatology" is always a fun mess.

I like mucking about in it - with a sense of humor of course. Many folks just toss the whole thing in the garbage... but there's truth hidden i..."

For me, I am convinced that the vast majority of the Bible is EASY to understand (for those spiritually alive).

Yes, there are difficult parts... yes, the easy to understand parts are usually deeper than initially imagined... but rarely are the easy to understand parts wrong when deeper illumination is obtained.

1 Corinthians 2:14 - "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

I am here as I am not there.

You could do both.

At this very moment, I am here to update Goodreads.

Nobody has a reason to be here? I have about 10.

I am here to give God praise.

Great reason.

I guess I was here to drive Lee away (along with a few of the goofier Calvinists and a few atheists!)

Awesome - it's good to set reasonable goals.

My goal was to make them cry...

I am here to learn more about the Word from others. As Proverbs 27:17 says, "As iron sharpens iron, so do other men sharpen each other."

I joined for the group reads. That has not been happening. I have not found the discussions and threads of value.

I'm here because I love to dive deeper and deeper into the word of God and learn from the experience of others. Unfortunately, there is so much head-whacking going on, that I got tired of it. I would appreciate discussions where different opinions are allowed to stand, whether the other person agrees or not.

Hopefully they are always allowed (we've been tolerating our resident atheists attacks and mockings for months).
Yes, you'll seldom find that differing opinions are applauded.

This group attempts to deal with heavy theological issues. This isn't the rainbow Christian Unity Fun Zone.
Sadly, this isn't usually a happy place. But you can do interesting experiments here...

We tried Group Reads a few times. The problem has always been those in charge:
Read a book fast? Or slow? Or deep? Or Light? Or boring? Or...

But we can try again. I'm game

To Rod...here are some interesting questions...I do not have the complete answers:

1, How difficult would it be to compose a life-script for a perfect Person Jesus Christ to get Him to the cross?

2. How would one compose a life-script that would break the heart of God...Jesus the Son of God...on the cross (water and blood coming out of His pierced side)?

3. How does one write a recipe that balances just the right amount of empirical facts plus moral arguments in the life-script of the Messiah...that after-the-fact going forward leaves a delicate balance between belief and unbelief...to both still be in place and functioning...in other words Jesus not walking down main street and into the temple a few days after His resurrection...in Jerusalem...yet being the effective Savior, Lord, and King to all those of the early church down to today.

4. How is it that true Christian discipleship is so contrary to the opposing worldview of worldly conventional normalcy and thinking...of self-sovereignty...even having elements of suffering and even heart-break...that the narrative stories of faith in the Bible portray as beneficial for us in our journey of faith...how is this appealing in capturing the dedication of Spirit-born Christians to "climb any mountain and cross any sea?"

5. How do we explain the humility of Jesus...arguably the greatest and most influential person who has ever lived...does He have to leave aside every exterior hint of divinity if He is to meet us where we are...like Mark Twain's The Prince and the Pauper?...cannot walk around in a glow of surrounding light for example...and what would this say about the capacity of the character of God to become incarnate in our world in essence as a "pauper" in terms of worldly station.

This is why I participate in these threads...I what to get other people's serious take on subjects like these.

Sometimes I would prefer the discussions to be more elevated. Some of the issues discussed here in Goodreads are enormously important.

But a sense of humor is also good.

God bless.

I may not have understood the meaning of "here" with my comment. I thought it was here on earth. I thought I read a Bible verse that said God created humans to give Him praise. I don't find it at Bible Gateway though. Anyway, I joined this group to learn about Theology. I had never considered "veracity" as clue to the meaning of bible verses. I had never considered the importance of veracity at all.

I have been influenced by Psalm 111 and this group increases my understanding. Revelation 19:5 instructs us to praise God.

Thanks guys.

Wow Barton. Cool.

I honestly think you don't learn about theology by being TOLD.

You must explore, fight, rethink, ponder... and argue. You will also love and hate. Most stop at being told - and jump to arguing.

Any thoughts on topics 1 through 5 above? I think the question of how you get a perfect Person Jesus to the cross...is almost inarguable as apologetic evidence for its divine composition? Could not possibly be the product of human literary invention...recorded by human writers...but not invented?

Also the broken heart of Jesus on the cross...how can that happen apart from the existence of human sin applied to Him?

These issues are not to convince skeptics...but to bolster the faith and confidence of Christians...and as inspiration.

I'm here because I have started to fall In love with reading. I never had that passion. I figured, while I'm on Goodreads, I might as well join a group that share the same values and beliefs as I do (to some extent I'm finding.) I have been inactive for years. Just getting involved again.

Great apologetic arguments Barton. Yes, Jesus is too weird to be a successful myth. It's all wrong. (And right!)

All kinds of beliefs here Ben. Explore.

The strange thing is: churches are often filled with endless beliefs and doctrines - it's just that nobody is talking. If they were: we'd have more church splits.

My last church had everything from Buddhists to humanistic liberals to charismatics to fundamentalists and hippies. I'm the only one that noticed... I now go to a different church.

Rod wrote: "I'm always curious why people come to a group like this.

Some to argue, some to explore, some to prove they are right and everyone else is wrong. Some to maybe make friends, some to hate on Chris..."
I am here to listen for the most part. Maybe gain some friends to my author page. It is interesting that many discussions on Christian faith turn hateful when the scripture is so full of the love of Christ.

I hear ya. The saints should seldom be in disagreement- no more than those of the 1st century church were (a fair bit). God even killed two of them.

Not until heaven will we have one proper theology. We must be slightly graceful until then.

Christopher wrote: "It is interesting that many discussions on Christian faith turn hateful when the scripture is so full of the love of Christ. ..."

What really saddens me is when the Bible is quoted... no commentary or private interpretation is added... and the Scripture is REJECTED by those calling themselves followers of Jesus!

:-(
',
',
',
',
~~~

Welcome. It is fun to find out what's worth chatting about.

Jon wrote: "Hello, I am here because I simply enjoy theological and philosophical and if possible historical discussion. I’ll talk with anyone, anywhere, anytime. Not because I arrogantly think I can defeat an..."

Welcome aboard Jon!

Rod - like you, I consider this fun and along the way, I learn a few interesting tidbits. I doubt if anyone has changed anybody else's theological outlook - we are a stiff-necked bunch. Like in any other discipline it's easy to analyze another's logical fallacies, but much harder to evaluate your own. Oh well - I'll continue to be the voice of reason crying out in the wilderness, while the rest of you can charge at your own windmills. Glad none of us suffers from too much pride!

Robert wrote: "I'll continue to be the voice of reason crying out in the wilderness..."

Where is that in the Bible?

Robert - that was an attempt at humor. It's understandable you don't recognize it because there's no humor is in the Bible and you reflect that perfectly.

Robert wrote: "Robert - that was an attempt at humor. It's understandable you don't recognize it because there's no humor is in the Bible and you reflect that perfectly."

My response: Personally... I do NOT find your REJECTION of the TRUE Jesus to be FUNNY at all.

Rod wrote: "I'm always curious why people come to a group like this.

Some to argue, some to explore, some to prove they are right and everyone else is wrong. Some to maybe make friends, some to hate on Chris..."


I'm very intellectual about the Christian Faith, which I believe is my way of worshiping God. I also love nothing more then reading a Book, and I love even further discussing with other believers my Postulations regarding Scripture and the books I've read. It started out for me as Intellectual Stimulation joining viz. because I am a Christian; consequently I love reading books about Christian Theology and Scripture and delving into what scripture says and what God is trying to convey to us, However after being in the group and reading the discussions a second factor came into play, there are a few and small amount of active members that I am glad are on this forum such as Rod, Robert, and Ned whom I feel I have developed somewhat of a friendship with over our Theological Banter, and this is what keeps me coming back. Hope this provided some insight.

Welcome.
Start a thread about these issues. Could be fun.

Rod wrote: "Welcome.
Start a thread about these issues. Could be fun."

Thanks Rod, I may just do that.

I’m here to watch the dumpster fire of Christians being right...

It can be entertaining. But truth hurts.

Truth hurts, I can allow that. But some humility and grace would be nice to see. There a lot of venom and anger around here. Simply whacking people with “the Bible clearly says” seems unChristlike behaviour.

The real issue: is everyone who claims to be a Christian REALLY a biblical Saint? Or on their way to being a saint? Or simply a wolf in sheets clothing?
There should be a test. (There is actually - it heavily involves humility AND God's word).

"...if you have no love then... His word is truth"

Is this "unChristlike" behavior?

Galatians 5:12 - "I wish that those who are troubling you [by teaching that circumcision is necessary for salvation] would even [go all the way and] castrate themselves !"