Poldark Saga - Winston Graham discussion
Jeremy Poldark - #3
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Ross and Demelza's Relationship
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No, he's not. :( And I do like that he admits that to himself when they're riding him, and to her after she tells him she's pregnant when he says he's not used to dealing with women.
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Which is sad, because I feel like he desperately wants to be able to understand Demelza and react with more sensitivity than his typical "bitter tongue." Oh, WG did amazingly with everything in this series!!
Ross also says that he didn't even know his father cared about him until Ross was deathly ill when he was about 11 or 12? I forget the age. So he grew up without a mother for the most part, and his father was remote as well. Yes, WG is wonderfully adept at character development. They all feel like real people to me. I miss them when I'm not reading about them. I wonder about them when I'm at work!
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I know! I would catch myself thinking how silly I was for being so concerned about people that have been dead for 200 years and then I would remember that they were never alive!
Good storytellling is so powerful. I wonder...this is sort of out there...but I wonder if characters in stories really do exist in some dimension. Years ago I tried my hand at writing fiction and it was a revelation to me how the characters in my writing told their own stories, like I was just channeling them. Hours would go by like minutes and when I read what was written, I'd wonder, "where did that come from?" Sometimes I would try to write the story my way, and the characters resisted, the writing felt flat and forced. It was a really dreamlike experience. I abandoned the writing after awhile, no self-confidence, but I still think about my characters, I wonder where they are, how they are, what they're doing now.
Oh, Brenda, you just spoke the dream of every fangirl!! ^_^ I sometimes like to sit and think "I wonder what Ross would be doing right now?" or Demelza, or anyone else from a fictional verse that I love! I myself write Poldark fanfiction, so I know what you mean about writing.
I do suggest though that you keep writing! Whether you're pleased with your work or not, you should always write! One of my favorite actresses once said: "Writing is mentally stimulating. It's like a puzzle that makes you think all the time."
Wise words that I think everyone should take to heart! I hope you will write again someday :)
Sarah-Vita wrote: "what's going on between Ross and Elizabeth... "It's not clear to me what's behind Elizabeth's questions to Dwight about Ross. First she asks Dwight to confirm that Francis had tried to commit suicide in Bodmin. Then she asks Dwight if Ross & Demelza are happy. Is she making plans just in case Francis DOES kill himself?
Then at Christmas, Demelza remarks on Elizabeth's "present mood" and even Ross admits that he was disturbed by her looks. At first I thought he meant HOW she looked, but I now believe he means how she's LOOKING AT HIM. He mentions a "challenge" in her.It's obvious that Elizabeth is trying to get Ross' attention, but for what? Just for her vanity or her security? I can't figure out her timing or her motives.
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That's another thing! She's kind of making it fairly obvious that she's after Ross... it really shocked me when she practically told Ross she still loves him and always has!
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Which puts a different spin on (view spoiler)
Tanya, I clicked on your link above and was surprised to see that it has 54 views! That's quite a lot, compared to other topics on this site.So, yes, this seems to be the point at which Elizabeth decides to make a play to entice Ross back, with consequences.
But why now? What is the trigger? Is it as Ross says, that it must have been galling for her that her life was slipping away in that old house with a bankrupt husband? Or is it the knowledge that Francis tried to commit suicide, which must be a very heavy emotional burden on her? Or somethng else?
Whatever it is, she was desperate to get them over for Christmas. She asked Dwight to impress upon Demelza that they were really wanted, needed.
Brenda wrote: "Good storytellling is so powerful. I wonder...this is sort of out there...but I wonder if characters in stories really do exist in some dimension... Sometimes I would try to write the story my way, and the characters resisted"This sounds like a good story in itself!
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"Elizabeth began to put some unused cutlery away in a drawer. Then she reached up to the cupboard above and tried to open it, but the door had stuck.
'Let me,' Ross said and came up behind her. He put his hand on the knob and jerked the cupboard open, and she stepped back against him. Just for a moment they were together and her hair brushed his face. He put his arm around her, his hand closing against the velvet of her other arm. Time briefly ceased to have progression and became an intimate perception of a single emotion breathed by them both, then he stepped away.
'Thank you,' she said and picked up the jar and put it in the cupboard. 'It’s all the rain and damp weather, makes the woods well.'
'Have you finished now? It must be nearly one o’clock.'
'Almost. You go on, Ross. I don’t need you anymore.'
'Not anymore?'
She laughed slightly but with a catch in her voice. 'Well, not that way.' She had still not turned to face him."
I could feel the steam cooking out of that kitchen!
Hi there! First post in a very long time.....Ross says a line in series 1: "Elizabeth was born to be admired." Now, from the show's POV, the moment Ross tells Elizabeth to pray that he does not lose the "love of his life", she realizes that any of the love and admiration he had for her has been superseded by Demelza.
Game on for Elizabeth.
I need to re-read Jeremy and Warleggan again (didn't want to have them too close to mind as S2 aired) to be clearer on her motivations, other that outright selfishness.
mmmusings wrote: "Game on for Elizabeth."In the "Warleggan" Elizabeth asks Dwight whether Ross & Demelza are happily married, during the conversation to invite them over for Christmas. I had the impression she was responding to (view spoiler)
And perhaps then wanting to attract Ross to herself for security.This is the part I don't get: what kind of security COULD Ross offer Elizabeth? (view spoiler) Ross was married...did she expect him to leave Demelza? The scandal would have been enough to ruin Ross and Elizabeth.
One of my colleagues on the Poldark Podcast (if you haven't checked it out I invite you to do so) said that it would have been best if Elizabeth had had the opportunity to go to London for a season and discover there were more than three eligible men in the entire universe... :-)
mmmusings wrote: it would have been best if Elizabeth had had the opportunity to go to London for a season and discover there were more than three eligible men in the entire universe...
LOL! Ha, yes! My feelings exactly. And Ross' too, as he later tells hers.
Yet, Elizabeth's motives at this time is what I don't get. Was she trying to attract Ross, perhaps merely for her vanity, because she was desperate and felt emotionally rejected by Francis' attempt, or were things looking up in their marriage, as the show depicted? I just have a hard time reading between the lines.
Hi there, first post ever and I'm going off my memory and impressions I had of Elizabeth, as I've gone books ahead of (how do I input ***spoiler alert? ****) "the resolution to the problem"...... From my understanding and impression of Elizabeth, she was a lost girl trying to be a woman in a world where she was taught from young to be constrained in her desires and dreams for the better good of her family and its social standing etc. This clearly resulted in her unhappy union with Francis, and some may rightful say she instigated the demise of her own marriage by being sully towards him and continuing to show interest in Ross. Ross on the other hand is well.... what some might say a typical alpha male of the time that if offered a bedchamber invitation he would take it....? Demelza is unfortunately and unwittingly caught in this love triangle/square and trying to be a good wife as she perceives the upper classes would expect a wife to be, in hopes of keeping Ross at home and not abandoning her. The problem with that I see, is that at times Demelza is a bit scatter brained in her earlier years as she tries to figure out how to deal with all of these expectations and more that society in general and her self have loaded onto her shoulders..... Just some of my rambling thoughts....
Evelyn, oh, I agree with you absolutely. Love your analysis of the characters.
SPOILERS: Books 1& 4. I suppose because E was a lady, her one option was to send out signals of what her constrained desires were and hope they'd be picked up and acted on by Ross. This now appears obvious when she goes to Nampara during the cornflower (TV) / bluebell (book) scene. It's SO apparent that Demelza thinks, "She's one day too late; just one day." In this scene I suppose E's signal means that her desire was to start an affair.
The only other indication of what she may want or expect to happen for her and Ross is when in Warleggan she thinks, "They had no money to run away." And "...the whole purpose of the postponement was...to think...and perhaps leave others with time to consider too", meaning Ross, of course.So her dreams are all dependent on whether Ross will pick up on the signals and act on them.
BOOK 3 SPOILER: From Tanya's post above: " Time briefly ceased to have progression and became an intimate perception of a single emotion breathed by them both, then he stepped away. "GOSH, it's just dawned on me that E was let down that Ross stepped away. If there was ever an opportunity, that was it, and he didn't take it. How devastating for her.
You kind of feel sorry for Elizabeth; yes, she screwed up Ross and Demelza's relationship (it was going through a rough patch to begin with) and she marries a manipulative slimeball in order to survive.
Yes, I totally agree. Ultimately it's about survival.
I enjoyed the whole thing, though I was sad at how hard Ross and Demelza's relationship seemed to be in this one :( I understand why, after losing Julia and Ross's' trial and everything else around them not going right, but it was sad. Especially Ross's feelings about having other children. Again, I understand his point, but can't he see how saying such things hurts Demelza?
And oi, but poor Demelza is spot on with what's going on between Ross and Elizabeth... she sees right through them!! I mean, come on. Whose the idiot who let them alone in the kitchen?! GAAAAHH!!!!
I'm not blaming anyone... I know emotions in this family clearly run high, and Ross hasn't fully forgotten her, but dammit man, your wife is just upstairs! :/
I know it's going to get better between them though, so I'm holding out. Absolutely cannot wait for Book 4!!!! :D