The History Book Club discussion

Hello Everyone,

For the week of April 11th - April 17th, we are reading STAYING ON - Chapters Three and Four (pg. 31-49)~ Staying On, (pg. 31-49)

The week's reading assignment is:

Week Two- April 11th - April 17th ~ Chapters Three and Four -(pg. 31-49)

We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we did for other spotlighted books.

This book was kicked off on April 4th.

We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, local bookstore or on your Kindle. Make sure to pre-order now if you haven't already. This weekly thread will be opened up on April 4th.

There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to get started and/or to post.

Jill will be leading this discussion and back-up will be Bentley.

Welcome,

~Bentley

TO ALWAYS SEE ALL WEEKS' THREADS SELECT VIEW ALL

by Paul Scott

REMEMBER NO SPOILERS ON THE WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREADS - ON EACH WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREAD - WE ONLY DISCUSS THE PAGES ASSIGNED OR THE PAGES WHICH WERE COVERED IN PREVIOUS WEEKS. IF YOU GO AHEAD OR WANT TO ENGAGE IN MORE EXPANSIVE DISCUSSION - POST THOSE COMMENTS IN ONE OF THE SPOILER THREADS. THESE CHAPTERS HAVE A LOT OF INFORMATION SO WHEN IN DOUBT CHECK WITH THE CHAPTER OVERVIEW AND SUMMARY TO RECALL WHETHER YOUR COMMENTS ARE ASSIGNMENT SPECIFIC. EXAMPLES OF SPOILER THREADS ARE THE GLOSSARY, THE BIBLIOGRAPHY, THE INTRODUCTION AND THE BOOK AS A WHOLE THREADS.

Notes:

It is always a tremendous help when you quote specifically from the book itself and reference the chapter and page numbers when responding. The text itself helps folks know what you are referencing and makes things clear.

Citations:

If an author or book is mentioned other than the book and author being discussed, citations must be included according to our guidelines. Also, when citing other sources, please provide credit where credit is due and/or the link. There is no need to re-cite the author and the book we are discussing however.

If you need help - here is a thread called the Mechanics of the Board which will show you how to cite books:

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Introduction Thread:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Table of Contents and Syllabus

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Glossary

Remember there is a glossary thread where ancillary information is placed by the moderator. This is also a thread where additional information can be placed by the group members regarding the subject matter being discussed.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Bibliography

There is a Bibliography where books cited in the text are posted with proper citations and reviews. We also post the books that the author used in his research or in his notes. Please also feel free to add to the Bibliography thread any related books, etc with proper citations. No self promotion, please.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Book as a Whole and Final Thoughts - SPOILER THREAD

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

by Paul Scott

Chapter Summaries and Overviews

1 - Chapter Three

This chapter takes us back to the weeks before Tusker dies and the circumstances surrounding the cause of his demise. We also get some insight into the relationship between Ibriham and the Smalleys and that of Tusker and Mr. Boo.

2 - Chapter Four

A new mali, Joseph, is hired by Mrs. Smalley since the hotel will no longer pay for anyone to care for the garden. Tusker is not told of this little consipiracy.

Mrs. Smalley arrangement with Ibriham to hire a new mali shows her trust in him but he is also thinking about financial gain he might receive from being not quite straightforward about the wages of a new mali. This seems to be a recurring scenario with Indian servants......cunning little "deals on the side". Is it disloyalty or just part of life in India after the Raj?

The fact that Ibriham has such pride in his formal tunic and trousers that were used during British dinners during the Raj tells me that he misses the "old days" of ceremony and rigid social organization.Would you agree?

I agree about Ibriham and I think that many Indians liked the structure, the formality, the customs, the sporting activities, the infrastructure, the buildings and architecture and pomp and pageantry that the British Empire brought to the table. The fact that England considered India to be the jewel in the crown was a point of pride for India and the Indian people as well. England and Churchill did not want to give up India. And India in many ways liked to be taken care of by England. Even though in the final analysis Ghandi was instrumental in the Indians seeing themselves differently and believing in their own potential.

Bentley, Jill I agree about Ibrahim regretting the passing of the days of the raj. In fact in an earlier chapter he talks about missing the days when the servants were treated as members of the family subject to their good and bad humours but also the perks of such an arrangement for not only the servants but their families. It is clear that Ibrahim had been brought up this way as well making this a very uneasy time for him. Change is difficult even when it is supposed to be for the better.

I also thing that those who lived during the Partition yearn for the Raj as the bloodshed and division of families seemed to indicate that India was not ready for self-rule.

Mrs. Smalley reminds me of the Victorian wife........she goes out of her way to please her husband, appears to be ignorant of finances when indeed she is really in control of them, and generally plays second fiddle to Tusker. Or is it the role of the military wife that shapes her personality?

Lorna you are right change is very very difficult.

Jill it might have been a combination of many things - the times that she was living in, the country, the role of the military wife, the uncertainty of her existence if not with Tusker, her love for him, etc. And also the hard times that they had endured together. Being expats cannot be easy,

It also appears that they are living in rather poor circumstances and Mrs. Boo is letting the the hotel and the lodge fall into disrepair. What a sad situation for former members of the "elite"

I wonder if there is some significance of the "English Hippie". He certainly wouldn't have been seen in the Raj.......does he represent the fall of the British or am I reading too much into his short appearance?

It is and it shows how anybody can have a change of fortune. I don't know - Scott used a lot of symbolism so it must have meant something at the time.

That is why I am always trying to read things into what he writes......his symbolism and allusions. You are never sure if a character is representative of something, will appear again, or is just thrown in for color. Scott can certainly challenge you periodically!

Yes he was a talent for sure.

What is your interpretation of Tusker's weeping? I was very saddened by that particular scene in Chapter Three.

I am trying to remember that scene - but I think that Tusker's sadness stems from the "glory days". And I think Tusker did not feel at home in India any longer - any more than he would have felt at home in his own native country.

Something had changed in him which he could not understand - on top of the fact that he was older.

I will have to reread that chapter and get back to you.

What do others who are reading the book think about Chapter Three and Tusker?

Roles have reversed and Tusker is now at the "mercy" of his landlady, Mrs. Boo. Something as simple as the upkeep of the grounds of the Lodge has become a major issue to Tusker......he can't control his living situation any longer because he is "not in charge" and it is more than his pride can handle, I think. It is a particularly touching scene which is overheard by a puzzled Ibriham.

Yes, that was a tough scene - his world is falling apart as he knew it and he does not really feel in charge of anything.